Who is the woman in Revelations 12?

[bbbbbbb]

I understand the bible spiritually. You obviously are into eschatology and look for signs on earth. Nothing wrong with that, many Christians do, but we don't know the day nor the hour.

Personally when i read Genesis 8:21-22, i believe man will destroy earth through his own (satanic) intelligence. God won't, he doesn't break his covenant with his faithful.

god Bless

II Peter 3:1 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

 

[Victor in Christ]

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

What an awefull dreadful day that will be. The Lord will not destroy earth. Sinful, ungodly, unjust men will destroy everything the Lord God made for them.

 

[Anthony2019]

My understanding is Revelation 12 is referring to Mary. "She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre." (Revelation 12:5). The ark of the covenant is mentioned in the preceding verse: "Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant" (Revelation 11:29). It is my belief that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.

 

[Victor in Christ]

My understanding is Revelation 12 is referring to Mary. "She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre." (Revelation 12:5). The ark of the covenant is mentioned in the preceding verse: "Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant" (Revelation 11:29). It is my belief that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.

I believe the physical ark which God ordered to be made with hands was destroyed, but it spiritually is in heaven when Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father/God. I try not to get into the literal interpretation of the bible too much because it can drain us from our spiritual relationship with Christ.

god bless brother

 

[bbbbbbb]

What an awefull dreadful day that will be. The Lord will not destroy earth. Sinful, ungodly, unjust men will destroy everything the Lord God made for them.

Please note that it will be the day of the LORD. It will be His judgement on this vile earth and its inhabitants and not a man-made disaster which would otherwise be called the day of Mankind.

 

[Victor in Christ]

Please note that it will be the day of the LORD. It will be His judgement on this vile earth and its inhabitants and not a man-made disaster which would otherwise be called the day of Mankind.

The Lord holds the keys Revelation 1:18. It won't be the Lord who will destroy the earth God the Father promised that in Genesis 8:21-22. Christ will come as that dreadful judge to all unbelievers.

 

[Major1]

I understand the bible spiritually. You obviously are into eschatology and look for signs on earth. Nothing wrong with that, many Christians do, but we don't know the day nor the hour.

Personally when i read Genesis 8:21-22, i believe man will destroy earth through his own (satanic) intelligence. God won't, he doesn't break his covenant with his faithful.

god Bless

You are almost correct brother Victor.

I actually accept the Scriptures as LITERAL unless otherwise directed against that understanding.

Allow me to give an example. Scripture says that NO ONE know when Christ will come again so I for one do not spend anytime being concerned. However, the Lord Jesus said in
Matthew 24:32-34........
"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

The CONTEXT of what Jesus said goes back to Matthew 24:3..........
"As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

So then, In Bible eschatology, the "Fig Tree" is a referrance to the nation of Israel.
That says then that the "Fig Tree"= Israel and when it is once again IN THE LAND it will bloom.

LITERALLY then, Israel was back in the Promised Land on May 14, 1948 and since then she has BLOOMED and grown and is now one of the world's powers. So the generation who saw that will be alive for the 2nd Coming of Christ LITERALLY. Someone born in 1948 will then see Christ coming again.

Now, Here is the problem with "Spiritual understanding".

I say this with all respect to you and I am not saying this to you but in general.

When we "Spiritualize" the Scriptures, whose thoughts are being materialized in the mind of the believer? So in that we, we can make the Scriptures say anything we want them to say and reject anything we do not like.

Then as for Genesis 8, that my brother has nothing to do with man doing anything to destroy the earth in any way at all.

Genesis6:7..........
"And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

God did the flood as Judgment upon man.

 

[Major1]

The Lord holds the keys Revelation 1:18. It won't be the Lord who will destroy the earth God the Father promised that in Genesis 8:21-22. Christ will come as that dreadful judge to all unbelievers.

Genesis 8:21......
"1And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."

The curse of weeds and frustrating toil and the work required to bring crops from the ground remains to this day. Instead, God's commitment here should be seen as a decision not to annihilate life on the ground as He did with the flood. The flood brought destruction on the whole earth, on all the ground. God is declaring that He won't do that again.

Now, do you see what "Spiritualizing" Scriptures instead of LITERAL can do to your understanding????

 

[Eloy Craft]

NO sir it does not. The woman is Israel.

There is NO Bible Scriptures that say or even suggest that Mary as "Assumed" there fore she can not be the woman in Rev. 12.

The scriptures point out a woman who is the nation of Samaria. That's why Jesus calls her Woman. Who else?? Ah yes His Blessed Mother He called Woman. I think Jesus recognized them as archetypes. That's the reason for the title Woman. IMO.
I showed you the text. It's plain as the nose on your face. The pattern of numbers 5 passed 1 here now and 1 yet to come . He is also the eighth and one of the seven. So, if there is a real woman who is Samaria it is quite an incomplete reveal for Israel to be a figurative woman. Besides St Paul already taught that our mother is Jerusalem from above and not Jerusalem at that time. Jerusalem from above is a free woman St Paul say's and she is our mother.

 

[Major1]

The scriptures point out a woman who is the nation of Samaria. That's why Jesus calls her Woman. Who else?? Ah yes His Blessed Mother He called Woman. I think Jesus recognized them as archetypes. That's the reason for the title Woman. IMO.
I showed you the text. It's plain as the nose on your face. The pattern of numbers 5 passed 1 here now and 1 yet to come . He is also the eighth and one of the seven. So, if there is a real woman who is Samaria it is quite an incomplete reveal for Israel to be a figurative woman. Besides St Paul already taught that our mother is Jerusalem from above and not Jerusalem at that time. Jerusalem from above is a free woman St Paul say's and she is our mother.

Elroy.....bless your heart. I am sure you are sincere but, Really?

The woman in Revelation Is NOT the nation of Samaria!

The text you showed has nothing to do with this.

ISRAEL is the woman of Rev. 12.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The woman in Revelation Is NOT the nation of Samaria!

Lol...My friend Major, the Woman at the well is Samaria. Her individual life experience paralleled the history of Samaria. I was just establishing a precedent. Her five husbands and Samarias five vassal kings...etc. The real history of Samaria's kings and her husbands match. Not to mention the numeric pattern is repeated in Revelation. Something mysterious for sure.

 

[Major1]

Lol...My friend Major, the Woman at the well is Samaria. Her individual life experience paralleled the history of Samaria. I was just establishing a precedent. Her five husbands and Samarias five vassal kings...etc. The real history of Samaria's kings and her husbands match. Not to mention the numeric pattern is repeated in Revelation. Something mysterious for sure.

Your original comment was that the woman in Revelation was the nation of Samaria.

That is just not possible and THAT is what I disagreed with. As for the husbands and presidents and kings.....I have no clue how that could possibly fit into the Rev. 12.

Not only that, the Jews HATED the Samarians and to think that somehow, the Nations of Samaria would be the focus of Rev. 12 is just not possible my friend.

Hatred between Jews and Samaritans was fierce and long-standing. In some ways, it dated all the way back to the days of the patriarchs. Jacob (or Israel) had twelve sons, whose descendants became twelve tribes. Joseph, his favorite, was despised by the other brothers (Gen. 37:3-4), and they attempted to do away with him.

Samaria did not bring forth a man child......................... But Isreal did!
Samaria did not produce one who will rule all nations.......But Israel did!
Samaria did not have Man caught up to God...................But Israel did!
Samaria does not have a Man in the throne room of God..But Israel does!.

Personally I do not see a mystery at all. The Revelation when read and understood literally and correctly is a blessing and not a mystery. But that is just me.

 

[JLHargus]

Revelation 12 MSG;NIV - The Woman, Her Son, and the Dragon - A - Bible Gateway

Is it Mary or the church?

[Rev12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.]

JL: The child is a person=Christ and collective, symbolic of humanity or the Davidic Kingdom. The woman is a person=Mary and a collective, symbolic of the Church, Old and New Covenant people of God. The great dragon is a person=Satan and a collective, symbolic of empires, kingdoms, governments and organizations that oppress the people of God through the ages.

The woman is a person Mary and also symbolic of the Church the people of God, which includes Mary along with both Jew and Gentile Christians, spiritual Israel the Israel of God Gal6:16, in heaven and on earth. It is the Church who is travailing in prayer and pained to be delivered.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Your original comment was that the woman in Revelation was the nation of Samaria.

No, I didnt. I was setting up a precedent of a nation being an actual person. That way the woman in Rev. 12 can be interpreted as being an actual Woman. The personal history of the woman at the well and the history of Samaria parallel one another. That plus the pattern of husbands is paralleled in the Book of Revelation. That may be what is confusing. 5 have fallen 1 is here now one is yet to come. The eighth is one of the seven and he is going to his destruction. That pattern is precisely paralleled in both the Gospel story of the woman at the well and the book of Revelation. Plus Jesus call both His mother and the woman at the well "Woman"

 

[Major1]

No, I didnt. I was setting up a precedent of a nation being an actual person. That way the woman in Rev. 12 can be interpreted as being an actual Woman. The personal history of the woman at the well and the history of Samaria parallel one another. That plus the pattern of husbands is paralleled in the Book of Revelation. That may be what is confusing. 5 have fallen 1 is here now one is yet to come. The eighth is one of the seven and he is going to his destruction. That pattern is precisely paralleled in both the Gospel story of the woman at the well and the book of Revelation. Plus Jesus call both His mother and the woman at the well "Woman"

That is a lot of thinking and postulating when the woman in Rev. 12 is in fact Israel.

Dr. Harry Ironside was absolutely correct in his assessment of the importance of Revelation chapter 12 when he correctlly stated that....
"Unless we correctly identify this woman and the subject matter connected with her, "we will be misled on important Biblical issues including Israel, Christ, the Covenants and latter-day prophecy as a whole!"

The apostle John, who authored the Book of Revelation, was a Judahite believer. He and his first century audience would have surely understood that the sign of this woman refers back to Joseph’s dream and therefore represents Israel.

"In studying the OT [Old Testament] it is clear that the 'woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered' (Revelation 12:1-2) is a reference to the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL who were sealed by God for salvation in Revelation 7...according to Joseph's dream recorded in Genesis 37:5-11, the twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the sun and the moon represent Jacob (a.k.a. Israel) and his wife. Therefore, the woman of Revelation, from a scriptural perspective, IS ISRAEL"
Just WHO is the Woman of Revelation 12?

In fact the entire context of the Book of Revelation demands this interpretation. For we see that prior to the Revelation 12 reference to Israel, John lists all twelve tribes of Israel by name in chapter 7. In this chapter the twelve tribes of Israel are listed and sealed by YEHOVAH God for protection and salvation.

Revelation 7:4...........
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed".

They appear again in Revelation 12 -- this time persecuted by, but protected from, the dragon. Then they appear in Revelation 14:1-5 as redeemed from the earth and singing before the throne of YEHOVAH God --Rev. 14:1 & 3............

"Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their forehead.…They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth".

Finally, to assure us that the woman of Revelation 12 is Israel, she appears once more at the end of the Book of Revelation -- this time as the Lamb’s (the Messiah’s) bride coming down out of heaven:

Rev. 21:2, 9-12 & 14...........
"Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.…'Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.' And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.…And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb".

 

[Major1]

[Rev12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.]

JL: The child is a person=Christ and collective, symbolic of humanity or the Davidic Kingdom. The woman is a person=Mary and a collective, symbolic of the Church, Old and New Covenant people of God. The great dragon is a person=Satan and a collective, symbolic of empires, kingdoms, governments and organizations that oppress the people of God through the ages.

The woman is a person Mary and also symbolic of the Church the people of God, which includes Mary along with both Jew and Gentile Christians, spiritual Israel the Israel of God Gal6:16, in heaven and on earth. It is the Church who is travailing in prayer and pained to be delivered.

Now I am very aware that you have studied and believed what the RCC has told you. Now all I ask you to do is to read and study the BIBLE instead of a man made church dogma.

Now, stay close and follow along......

Genesis 3:16......
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you."

So, lets connect the "dots" ...

PAIN in childbirth is Gods CURSE upon women, for ORIGINAL SIN ... before that, no pain, after that, PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH...now is that Biblically correct right? Please take your time and read the Bible Scriptures and then do a google search on this to see if I am correct. I am correct but there is safty in numbers.

Now We know that the woman in Revelation delivered IN TRAIL AND PAIN = the woman carries the CURSE of PAIN.

Now we ask...
Does Catholicism have as DOGMA, that Mary was SINLESS? Yes, she does, in a brand new Dogma the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, Mary was without SIN from Conception.

So then, Mary did NOT carry the CURSE from the Garden, is that right? Again, take the time to study this. Use your computer to do a seach.

So then....No curse = NO PAIN. So, EITHER-----------
1. The "woman" in Revelation is NOT Mary { and "she is not" she is the nation of Israel).

2. OR she IS MARY, but the PAIN showed that the DOGMA of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IN ERROR.

Now you have only TWO choices on this subject......Pick one.

Either way, the RCC has a real problem in its teaching.

 

[Eloy Craft]

That is a lot of thinking and postulating when the woman in Rev. 12 is in fact Israel.

The woman at the well, does the number of her husbands not match the number of kings mentioned in Revelation? Does Samaria's history of Vassal kings match the history of husbands the woman at the well had? Are the woman at the well and Jesus' mother the only two women Jesus called Woman?

I do believe the woman at the well was a known prophetess in Samaria. That her life and the history of Samaria run parallel is historic fact. That same pattern is repeated in Revelation. None of this is speculation.

The woman in Revelation 12. She is clothed in the sun. That's a woman glorified. Like at the Transfiguration Jesus let His glory be seen. standing on the moon. The moon symbolized things that change or the temporal. standing on the moon means she is no longer subject to change. She is in eternity. John saw what Paul meant when he taufght that our mother is not the Jerusalem of his day but Jerusalem from above. He taught our mother is free. John saw that freedom as standing on the moon.

Can you refute the idea that the woman at the well is Samaria personified?

Edit: there are a couple more women Jesus called Woman. Women he healede who were among the people.

 

[Eloy Craft]

2. OR she IS MARY, but the PAIN showed that the DOGMA of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IN ERROR.

The thing is with an archetype like Woman. It encompasses Woman as she originated as Adam's wife and encompasses Woman as she journey's through history Zacharia.5 Ezekiel 23. and her end in Glory. She is Israel giving birth to messiah and that was painful, but that doesn't mean she isn't also the real actual Woman that really actually gave birth to the messiah.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is a lot of thinking and postulating when the woman in Rev. 12 is in fact Israel.

Dr. Harry Ironside was absolutely correct in his assessment of the importance of Revelation chapter 12 when he correctlly stated that....
"Unless we correctly identify this woman and the subject matter connected with her, "we will be misled on important Biblical issues including Israel, Christ, the Covenants and latter-day prophecy as a whole!"

The apostle John, who authored the Book of Revelation, was a Judahite believer. He and his first century audience would have surely understood that the sign of this woman refers back to Joseph’s dream and therefore represents Israel.

"In studying the OT [Old Testament] it is clear that the 'woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered' (Revelation 12:1-2) is a reference to the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL who were sealed by God for salvation in Revelation 7...according to Joseph's dream recorded in Genesis 37:5-11, the twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the sun and the moon represent Jacob (a.k.a. Israel) and his wife. Therefore, the woman of Revelation, from a scriptural perspective, IS ISRAEL"
Just WHO is the Woman of Revelation 12?

In fact the entire context of the Book of Revelation demands this interpretation. For we see that prior to the Revelation 12 reference to Israel, John lists all twelve tribes of Israel by name in chapter 7. In this chapter the twelve tribes of Israel are listed and sealed by YEHOVAH God for protection and salvation.

Revelation 7:4...........
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed".

They appear again in Revelation 12 -- this time persecuted by, but protected from, the dragon. Then they appear in Revelation 14:1-5 as redeemed from the earth and singing before the throne of YEHOVAH God --Rev. 14:1 & 3............

"Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their forehead.…They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth".

Finally, to assure us that the woman of Revelation 12 is Israel, she appears once more at the end of the Book of Revelation -- this time as the Lamb’s (the Messiah’s) bride coming down out of heaven:

Rev. 21:2, 9-12 & 14...........
"Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.…'Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.' And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.…And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb".

Thank you for the excellent post. You are absolutely correct that Revelation 12 is critical to understanding not only the book of Revelation, but God's plan for mankind.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The two women, daughters of one mother according to the Prophet. The mother is Eve. Eve is Woman. The two daughters are Woman as she is divided and journeys through history. They are seen as Abraham's wives. Described by the two Prophets I posted. Paul taught their latest manifestations and points our minds to a Jerusalem from above. He teaches she is Jerusalem from above and she is our mother. That say's to me that our mother is in heaven. And Behold there she is in Rev. 12. Now our mother has to come before us right? Our mother can't be a reality that hasn't happened yet can it? A vision of heaven, a prophetic vision is like Jesus. What is seen has happened , is happening and is yet to come.

Woman was whole until she sinned and became divided. The good she wanted to do she couldn't. They remain divided until they meet their end in Christ.

Jesus revealed Himself casually to the woman at the well and Jesus seemed nourished by the encounter. Many people believed just because she believed. She was looking for Jesus. Even though Jesus told her deifficult things for her to hear she demonstrated a love for the truth that cast away preconceived expectations.




There are two women. If Israel is the woman that gave birth to the Messiah, what nation would be the other woman?
I think Scriptures teach us who they are as persons in the end. One is from above according to Paul and he adds, she is our mother.