Who is the Queen of Heaven?

kepha31

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amariselle

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Double posting, amariselle? This post was refuted here post #577 but the thread got closed. Probably because the 'Marian devotion' bashing got too intense.

fbe79833cd65c02864c3700a0ea34343.jpg

27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. - Luke 11:27-28

46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
 
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amariselle

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Perhaps you are not aware, but the "Marian apparition" at Fatima, for example, actually said many entirely unbiblical things. Things that the real Mary would have never said. (The real Mary rejoiced in God her Saviour) Luke 1:47

Circumstances and Dialogue of the 1917 Apparitions
 
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prodromos

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It saddens me to see this ridiculous anti-Roman animus so prevalent in our Orthodox brothers, when our leaders are trying hard to reconcile.
Seriously? Patriarch Bartholomew has stated plainly that the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are ontologically different, and the meeting of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kiril in Cuba amounts to little more than the Moscow Patriarch upstaging the Constantinople Patriarch. Has the Pope been able to visit Russia?
It's all based on antiquated political and ethnic rivalries. You need to grow up and come home.
As long as you keep ignoring the very real theological issues separating us, there will never be any progress towards reconciliation. You need to humble yourself and stop being so condescending.
 
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prodromos

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Sometimes you post great stuff, but this is a load of crap.
What an apt description of the rest of your post.
I do not wish to continue this fruitless discussion; I don't think you can honestly answer my questions without resorting to the same boring Protestant polemics.
You are more than happy to bring out the same boring Catholic polemics.
 
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kepha31

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What an apt description of the rest of your post.

You are more than happy to bring out the same boring Catholic polemics.
My, what a slick way of running from my questions. Admit it, the truth of the answers doesn't fit your preconceptions.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Mary, the virgin vessel of the birthing of Jesus the God-Man, is NOT a "queen" of anything, especially heaven.

Her Cousin, Elizabeth, carrying the miraculous fetus, John the Baptizer, got it right.

Luke 1...Miraculous event: Zacharias + Elizabeth = John the Baptizer
39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah,
40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby (fetus of John the Baptizer) leaped in her womb;
and Elizabeth was "filled with" (controlled by)(God) the Holy Spirit.
42 And she cried out with a loud voice (hailing Mary) and said,
“Blessed (happy) are you among women, and
blessed is the fruit of your womb!

43 And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord (GOD) would come to me?
44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.
45 And blessed is she (Mary) who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord.”

And God's messenger was right (OF COURSE)!

Luke 1...Jesus’ Birth Foretold: Mary visited by angel Gabriel
26 Now in the sixth month the >>angel Gabriel<< was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,
27 to a virgin engaged (betrothed) to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David (legal line); and the virgin’s name was Mary.(blood line)
28 And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord (God) is with you.”
29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was.
30 The angel said to her,
“Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;(prophecy fulfilled!)
33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” (prophecy to be fulfilled!)
34 Mary said to the angel,
“How can this be, since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered and said to her,
“(God) The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High (God the Father) will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
36 And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; (MIRACLE!)
and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”
38 And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.”
And the angel departed from her.

The virgin birth / "immaculate conception" is an orthodox, revered, and fundamental belief/doctrine.
Jesus the God-Man was miraculously conceived. Mary bore the unique and prophesied "seed of woman"
SEE:
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity Between you (serpent/satan) and the woman, And between your seed and >>HER SEED<<; (women have eggs!)
He (Jesus) shall bruise you on the head (death blow), And you (serpent/satan)shall bruise him (Jesus) on the heel.”

But Mary and Joseph knew they were sinners like the rest of us. They offered sin offerings before the traditional dedication of Jesus at Temple (~8-10 days after His birth?)

Luke 2:...Jesus Presented at the Temple
21 And when eight days had passed, before His circumcision, His name was then called Jesus,
the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.
22 And when the days for their PURIFICATION (from sin) according to the law of Moses were completed,
they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”),
24 and to offer a (sin!)sacrifice according to what was said in the Law of the Lord,
“A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”

I have zero problems with a Biblical Mary.

I have BIG PROBLEMS with RCC "Mariology".

Mariology - Wikipedia

Mariology of the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

What is Mariology?

Most Protestants endorse the Apostles’ Creed,
which acknowledges the virgin birth of Christ,
do they NOT believe in most of the other tenets of Mariology. Protestants denounce the veneration of Mary as practiced by Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

The four dogmas of Roman Catholic (RCC) "Mariology" based ONLY on "tradition" and "Magisterium, are:
1) the title “Mother of God”; (Queen of Heaven?)
2) the Immaculate Conception;
3) the Perpetual Virginity of Mary; and
4) the Assumption of Mary.
 
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kepha31

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Mary, the virgin vessel of the birthing of Jesus the God-Man, is NOT a "queen" of anything, especially heaven.
Then Jesus is not a king of anything either. Why is it so hard for you to understand all the Davidic kings had queens? The mother of the king, not the wife. The angel, that you quoted from Luke 1, spoke in terms of royalty. But you didn't see it.

2 of your sources are secular, the other is anti-Catholic. It's no wonder you have problems with Mariology. I recommend this:
Mary: The Blessed Virgin (Index Page)
Your preconceptions could be challenged.
The RCC needed a female Jesus. They created one. Contrary to "Scriptura Suprema".
You discredit your own "Scriptura Suprema" with such stupid insults.
 
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