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Who is the one who is victorious? (Revelation 3:12)

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    So in Revelation 3:12 Jesus says to the one who is victorious he will NEVER blot that person from the book of life. A strong argument for Eternal security. But it could also be an argument for conditional security because he uses ths words "to he whom is victorious". So... just who are these victorious people? Is it the saved people? Is it those given to Jesus by God the Father? Or are they someone else?
     
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  2. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    He is specifically addressing the church of Philadelphia. But it is written for all to see. The chuch letters are speaking regarding infirmities/sins that are specific and the blessings are regarding he who overcomes those infirmities/sins.

    It gives specific instructions and says they keep his commandments:

    "I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name."
    ...
    "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. 11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."
     
  3. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    So Jesus will never blot out those that keep his commandments. What are his commandments? The ten commandments? I mean I know he was addressing that particular church but he isn't really specific as to who these victorious people are. If they are all of the saved than it is a strong argument for eternal security. If they are those who keep God's commandments than it is a strong argument for conditional security.
     
  4. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    The bible does say that we must keep the commandments, as some people have pounded into this forum from time to time.

    But what I noticed, was that they don't deny God's name, and they keep his word or commandments and instructions.

    The whole New Testament is full of instruction. Too much to go thru here. Perhaps start with: Matthew 25:35-41

    And keeping the 10 commandments is pretty easy. There are the warnings in Revelation too: Revelation 21:8

    Point is the New Testament is full of instruction and warning. I think you're supposed to keep refreshed on its words and remember to obey them. God Bless :)
     
  5. R.J. Aldridge

    R.J. Aldridge New Member

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    In your original post you asked about the identity of these victorious people. I think a better question to ask is, who's victory are we talking about? This question may appear to be the same, but the intention is to focus upon the victorious one, Jesus Christ. He is the victor and we, the church, do not earn victory for ourselves, rather we receive His victory by faith. In other words, Jesus has earned the victory crown and has given it to everyone who would receive it, and the victorious ones are those who simply hold on to it.

    In regards to eternal security, even though it may sound like having to hold on to the crown is a condition that we have to meet, the truth is that everyone who has salvation will endure to the end. They will hold on to their crown. Those that do not endure will not lose their salvation because they never had it to begin with.
     
  6. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    In WEB translation the word is “overcomes”. I think that could help to understand the matter. I think it mans those who overcome the difficulties and remain in his words.

    He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
    Revelation 3:12
     
  7. Mark51

    Mark51 Newbie Supporter

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    The people that the Lamb (Jesus) is referring to as standing with him upon spiritual Mount Zion, numbering 144,000, having the Lamb’s name and that of his Father written on their foreheads, are the same anointed group that-as a spiritual bride/wife-takes their husbands name.-Revelation 7:3; 14:1.
     
  8. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    I believe in OSAS - however, there are signs and indications that a person has been saved, and not just partially sanctified through association with believers or trying to better themselves, while still lacking true belief in Christ.

    As scripture says;

    "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." Romans 8:30

    And Philippians 1:6

    "being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the Day of Jesus Christ."

    God wont leave His people without bringing them victorious to the finish line, but actual faith/belief is required for the sanctification and justification that the believer can have certainty will bring them to his/her ultimate glorification.

    Which is why scripture says in 2 Peter 1:10-11

    "Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

    There is a faith and belief that brings comfort, peace, and certainty, but it's a victorious walk, that overcomes this world in the end through faith in Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  9. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    The victorious are those who've taken the gift given at conversion and done something with it as they've struggled against and progressed at overcoming sin, produced fruit for the kingdom, persisted in doing good works, done God's will in general, grown in love of God and neighbor. They've "invested" and increased the gift.
     
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