Who is the Devil - it may surprise you

[Hewillcome2040]

The Devil is not a third party entity. The Devil (aka serpent, dragon, satan) is actually a "spirit". The Devil was never a "good" guy. The Devil is not apart from man. Let me use what REALLY happened in the Garden to make it more clear:

Adam was the one talking to Eve and convinced her to take of the forbidden fruit. Yes, your Bible says it was the Serpent. But that Serpent was actually ADAM. You see it was more SPECIFICALLY Adam's exhibition of his disobedience. The Devil is the spirit of disobedience.

When Jesus was being tempted of the Devil in the Wilderness it was actually the spirit of disobedience trying to get Jesus to sin. Jesus didn't give into it. Think about this, have you ever been tempted to do something evil? Those thought originate WITHIN YOU! Same with Christ, when those thoughts originated they came from Him but He didn't give in. You see in this SAME way was Jesus tempted in all ways as we are - in fact so much more so.

Notice what your Bible says when Eve took the forbidden fruit:

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Notice it says in your Bible that Adam was WITH HER. Why would that statement be in your Bible and so many gloss over it.

Yes the Serpent was Adam but specifically the manifestation of his disobedience. Remember Adam also knew what they were told. God would NOT have failed to have them know the commandment He gave them but here is what we read:

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You see that? - Adam was not deceived - because he was the one doing the deceiving.

Now does wicked man tend to the things of Satan? That would be the case if Satan were a third party. However, no, Satan tends towards the things of man. Satan is selfish (and that self is the man):

Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Were are told that sin is the result of giving into our own lusts:

Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So does sin come from a third party or from within us? - it comes from within us.

So what PURPOSE does the Bible give for the mission of Christ? -

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So you should understand that Jesus came to destroy OUR works - the disobedient nature of works that WE do. This why that Sword of the Spirit is going to do. It is going to remove that nature from us and eventually remove disobedience from us for good.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Eve clarified when explaining to God that it was the serpent that deceived her, not Adam.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Eve clarified when explaining to God that it was the serpent that deceived her, not Adam.

Yes, rightfully so.

 

[mmksparbud]

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Soooo----God is having an imaginary conversation with some spirit of rebellion that came from Him??---Don't think so.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When God told the serpent that it would wriggle around the ground on its belly, He wasn't talking to Adam. It is clearly stated that Eve was deceived by the serpent, but Adam was clearly disobedient because he was not deceived. He chose to do what his wife wanted instead of what God had instructed. Adam's disobedience was what brought about the fall. Jesus is not the second Eve. He is the second Adam who did the will of God where the first Adam failed.

Didn't Peter say that some will wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction? (2 Peter 3:16).

 

[~Anastasia~]

The biggest problem with this suggestion is to suppose that evil arose from WITHIN Christ-God. It did not ...


It is very true that temptations can arise from our own desires. But that does not mean all the rest follows as a consequence.


ETA - welcome to CF!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Soooo----God is having an imaginary conversation with some spirit of rebellion that came from Him??---Don't think so.

The heresy the op is trying to pass off here,
is like the heresy of universalism elsewhere.

These things keep springing up and must always be exposed as written:
"have nothing to do with that, but rather expose it" (the deeds of darkness).

 

[Ron Gurley]

Devil, Satan, serpent, Dragon, Lucifer, ....
Different names for the same dude… See revelation

A spirit being cast from heaven, landing on earth, destined for the abyss, and the lake of fire .

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The Devil is not a third party entity. The Devil (aka serpent, dragon, satan) is actually a "spirit". The Devil was never a "good" guy. The Devil is not apart from man. Let me use what REALLY happened in the Garden to make it more clear:

Adam was the one talking to Eve and convinced her to take of the forbidden fruit. Yes, your Bible says it was the Serpent. But that Serpent was actually ADAM. You see it was more SPECIFICALLY Adam's exhibition of his disobedience. The Devil is the spirit of disobedience.

When Jesus was being tempted of the Devil in the Wilderness it was actually the spirit of disobedience trying to get Jesus to sin. Jesus didn't give into it. Think about this, have you ever been tempted to do something evil? Those thought originate WITHIN YOU! Same with Christ, when those thoughts originated they came from Him but He didn't give in. You see in this SAME way was Jesus tempted in all ways as we are - in fact so much more so.

Notice what your Bible says when Eve took the forbidden fruit:

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Notice it says in your Bible that Adam was WITH HER. Why would that statement be in your Bible and so many gloss over it.

Yes the Serpent was Adam but specifically the manifestation of his disobedience. Remember Adam also knew what they were told. God would NOT have failed to have them know the commandment He gave them but here is what we read:

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You see that? - Adam was not deceived - because he was the one doing the deceiving.

Now does wicked man tend to the things of Satan? That would be the case if Satan were a third party. However, no, Satan tends towards the things of man. Satan is selfish (and that self is the man):

Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Were are told that sin is the result of giving into our own lusts:

Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So does sin come from a third party or from within us? - it comes from within us.

So what PURPOSE does the Bible give for the mission of Christ? -

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So you should understand that Jesus came to destroy OUR works - the disobedient nature of works that WE do. This why that Sword of the Spirit is going to do. It is going to remove that nature from us and eventually remove disobedience from us for good.

I sorry dude but that some heretical thinking right there. I don't know who ever gave you such ideas but please know they don't square with what the Bible actually says... if the Bible says the serpent deceived Eve and later in the Bible, that serpent is identified as satan, the devil, why do you think different? The Bible explains itself...

 

[RaymondG]

I sorry dude but that some heretical thinking right there. I don't know who ever gave you such ideas but please know they don't square with what the Bible actually says... if the Bible says the serpent deceived Eve and later in the Bible, that serpent is identified as satan, the devil, why do you think different? The Bible explains itself...

The serpent was also a source of Healing when it was raised up and looked upon. Jesus also stated that he will be lifted up just like the serpent was lifted up.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I sorry dude but that some heretical thinking right there. I don't know who ever gave you such ideas but please know they don't square with what the Bible actually says... if the Bible says the serpent deceived Eve and later in the Bible, that serpent is identified as satan, the devil, why do you think different? The Bible explains itself...

I agree. The Bible is so clearly written that a 10 year old with comprehension skills and read the text and comprehend what it actually says. The trouble with some "spiritual-minded" readers is that they depart from the natural principles of comprehension and read stuff into the text that isn't there. These ones are looking for some "spiritual" sub-text that is not implied by the original author.

The original author in this case clearly stated that a talking snake appeared in the garden and had a logical conversation with Eve and convinced her that God was denying something important from her and Adam unfairly and if they ate the fruit they would achieve "self-actualisation" (New Age thinking?) and be as good as God in being able to discern between good and evil. It is clear that when God found out, he spoke to Adam, Eve and the snake, which apparently was quite a different type of creature before all this happened. A 10 year old could work that out without too much trouble using natural comprehension principles.

There is a tendency to look for underlying "spiritual" sub-texts in the pages of Scripture when it speaks clearly in most cases. The exception would be the apocalyptic books which needed to be interpreted with keys to the symbolism; such keys would be well known by the intended audience and the literature being a puzzle to those outside of the intended audience. It was written at times where if things were clearly said, the authors and listeners might have lost their lives. But still, we have the "spooky spirituals" try to interpret the literature and come up with all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas about what it means. 90% of those trying to interpret the book of Revelation are in that category. In the 1970s, one spooky spiritual fellow accused Kissinger of being the AntiChrist! Most of the predictions in the 1970s based on Revelation have turned out to be totally wrong, especially the wombles who have tried to predict the date of the Second Coming of Christ!

Of course, with the accounts of events in the historical books of the Old Testament and the words in the Prophetic books contain principles which we should take on board, but these are clearly defined by the historical and cultural contexts and the trends which were happening in Israel during those periods. Jesus and Paul were very plain and direct talkers, and Jesus said in John about the mansions in heaven, "If it were not so, I would have told you." We don't have to try and extract some deeper meaning from Paul's teachings, because he meant what he said and said what he meant. Peter is very critical of those, when he mentions Paul, who twist and wrest his teaching to their own destruction.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The serpent was also a source of Healing when it was raised up and looked upon. Jesus also stated that he will be lifted up just like the serpent was lifted up.

How that can be equated to the serpent in the garden is beyond me. It seems as bizarre as the guy who used the closed eyes and pin method of guidance from the Bible. The pin fell on the verse, "And Judas went out and hanged himself." The fellow though that was not right so he tried again. This time the pin fell on, "And go and do thou likewise!"

The serpents that got into the Israelite camp and killed people were ordinary snakes sent by God as punishment for disobedience. When the people repented and cried out to God, the instruction was to lift up a snake on a pole and all those who looked on it were healed. It was not a symbol of a snake bringing healing at all. It was a symbol of Jesus being lifted up on the cross bring healing to sinners of their sin. "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up" (John 3:14).

 

[RaymondG]

How that can be equated to the serpent in the garden is beyond me. It seems as bizarre as the guy who used the closed eyes and pin method of guidance from the Bible. The pin fell on the verse, "And Judas went out and hanged himself." The fellow though that was not right so he tried again. This time the pin fell on, "And go and do thou likewise!"

The serpents that got into the Israelite camp and killed people were ordinary snakes sent by God as punishment for disobedience. When the people repented and cried out to God, the instruction was to lift up a snake on a pole and all those who looked on it were healed. It was not a symbol of a snake bringing healing at all. It was a symbol of Jesus being lifted up on the cross bring healing to sinners of their sin. "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up" (John 3:14).

You have no choice but to be right. I suspect that not even Jesus can make you believe any interpretation other than the one you have. One of the disadvantages of years of training and learning mans wisdom. The letter becomes so important that the spirit becomes blasphemous.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You have no choice but to be right. I suspect that not even Jesus can make you believe any interpretation other than the one you have. One of the disadvantages of years of training and learning mans wisdom. The letter becomes so important that the spirit becomes blasphemous.

Maybe I am like what Festus said to Paul: "Much learning has made you mad!"

 

[~Anastasia~]

The serpent was also a source of Healing when it was raised up and looked upon. Jesus also stated that he will be lifted up just like the serpent was lifted up.

Just because a methaphor is used in more than one way - even an opposing way - does not mean both are the same.

Christ is repeatedly pictured as a Lion - the Lion of Judah, for example. But Satan is also pictured as a lion - one who prowls about seeking whom he may devour. That doesn't mean Christ and Satan are the same (God forbid such an idea!).

We are also told to be wise as serpents. That doesn't mean we should be like Satan, etc. A metaphor isn't the overriding truth to impose on everything it may be used to describe.

 

[RaymondG]

Just because a methaphor is used in more than one way - even an opposing way - does not mean both are the same.

Christ is repeatedly pictured as a Lion - the Lion of Judah, for example. But Satan is also pictured as a lion - one who prowls about seeking whom he may devour. That doesn't mean Christ and Satan are the same (God forbid such an idea!).

We are also told to be wise as serpents. That doesn't mean we should be like Satan, etc. A metaphor isn't the overriding truth to impose on everything it may be used to describe.

my point was that the serpent was not always viewed as negative.....what is yours?

 

[~Anastasia~]

my point was that the serpent was not always viewed as negative.....what is yours?

True. The serpent is not always negative. The lion is not always negative or positive.

My point is that - because the metaphors (serpent, lion, etc.) can be used in different ways, they don't define what they are applied to. And so don't necessarily make a connection.

I actually wasn't sure what your point was from your post. Just replying in general.

 

[RaymondG]

True. The serpent is not always negative. The lion is not always negative or positive.

My point is that - because the metaphors (serpent, lion, etc.) can be used in different ways, they don't define what they are applied to. And so don't necessarily make a connection.

I actually wasn't sure what your point was from your post. Just replying in general.

oh ok, The person I replied to was saying that the serpent was the devil, satan and evil. I replied to show that It was not always depicted that way.

 

[2tim_215]

Revelation 12:7-11(KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Not only was Satan (Lucifer) an angel, but he was an archangel (or "chief" angel) the same order and rank as Michael and thus very powerful):
Jude 1:9-10(KJV) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

2 Corinthians 2:11(KJV) Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

 

[Ovlov90]

The serpent was also a source of Healing when it was raised up and looked upon. Jesus also stated that he will be lifted up just like the serpent was lifted up.

Naked Bible podcast on Ezec. 1 explains this. Two different words for serpent I believe and centuries apart in relating.