Who is the Angel of the Lord?

phydaux

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No, we are to develop personal relationships with the Lord and we go on learning.

I suppose if you eschew scripture when it comes to your views on angels then you would have no problems eschewing scripture when it comes to your views on Eschatology.

Me, i'm sticking with Sola Scriptura.
 
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dreadnought

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I suppose if you eschew scripture when it comes to your views on angels then you would have no problems eschewing scripture when it comes to your views on Eschatology.

Me, i'm sticking with Sola Scriptura.
If you aren't reaching out to the Lord and striving to develop a personal relationship with him, aren't you missing the point of Scripture?
 
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dreadnought

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You have to interpret your feelings in light of scripture, not interpret scripture in light of your feelings.
Scripture is meant to introduce you to the Lord, not the other way around.
 
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phydaux

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Scripture is meant to introduce you to the Lord, not the other way around.

An interesting premise. What do you base this on?

While you're mulling that over, mull these over as well:

Hebrews 1:1&2

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds


John 15:16&17

16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.


John 16:13

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come

John 15:26

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


The Spirit of God uses the Word of God to impact the hearts and the lives of the people of God, and reveal to them the Son of God. That is how Jesus said it would happen.
 
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dreadnought

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An interesting premise. What do you base this on?

While you're mulling that over, mull these over as well:

Hebrews 1:1&2

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds


John 15:16&17

16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.


John 16:13

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come

John 15:26

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


The Spirit of God uses the Word of God to impact the hearts and the lives of the people of God, and reveal to them the Son of God. That is how Jesus said it would happen.
The great, and first, commandment tells us to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, and soul. (Matt 22:34-40)
 
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phydaux

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So you attest that "Scripture is meant to introduce you to the Lord, not the other way around," and to support your premise you cite Mathew 22:34-40.

I'm sorry, but I don't see your reasoning. I DO see, however, that you are setting up a false dichotomy. Scripture and spiritual seeking are NOT mutually exclusive.

One can seek God in prayer, be lead by His Spirit, and grow in grace and understanding of the truth, and STILL keep in harmony with the written word.
 
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dreadnought

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So you attest that "Scripture is meant to introduce you to the Lord, not the other way around," and to support your premise you cite Mathew 22:34-40.

I'm sorry, but I don't see your reasoning. I DO see, however, that you are setting up a false dichotomy. Scripture and spiritual seeking are NOT mutually exclusive.

One can seek God in prayer, be lead by His Spirit, and grow in grace and understanding of the truth, and STILL keep in harmony with the written word.
I'm just saying that if you aren't developing a personal relationship with the Lord, I believe you are missing the point.
 
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MathewMark1988

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The term "angel" and "messenger" are the same words in both Hebrew and in Greek. Thus a messenger of God can even be a human messenger as in the case of Malachi whose name means "my messenger."

Angels are indeed messengers of God and there are places in the Scriptures in which The term, "the Angel of the Lord," is believed to be the pre-incarnated Jesus Christ, and the term usually found for those appearances, are called "theophanies."

There are other places in the Bible where there is little doubt, the character involved, was also the pre-incarnated Jesus. Such as the third angel, Abraham called the Lord, in Gen.18:1-15 In another place, the 'man' who wrestled with Jacob, whom he called God, in Gen.32:24-28. And again in Jos.5:13-15, where He was the Commander of God's armies from heaven. Also in Dan.3:24-25 when the king of Babylon saw four men in his firey furnace when he had only thrown three in. Another one is in Dan.12:6-7, about the 'man' dressed in linen,standing above the river.



Quasar92

I just finished reading a book that addressed this exact topic. I thought it was very well-written, but I don't recall seeing any reference at all to "theophanies." Can you go into that in more detail please?
 
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klutedavid

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I just finished reading a book that addressed this exact topic. I thought it was very well-written, but I don't recall seeing any reference at all to "theophanies." Can you go into that in more detail please?
John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Daniel 10:6
His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

Ezekiel 1:26-28
Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, deep blue in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of God.

Revelation 1:13-16
And in the middle of the lamp stands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. And His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

Who is that man in the visions?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Angels are usually either human beings or they are spirits which most often seem to reveal themselves through visions/hallucinations.
I wouldn't think of the Angel of the Lord as any specific angel, but any one. Michael and Gabriel are both Angels of the Lord but in most cases of prophetic Revelation it's Gabriel and he reveals himself through powerful visions, the same way that Christ did when he appeared as the Angel of the Lord to John...
Great post GUANO!
Michael and Gabriel in the Bible:

Daniel 8:16
And I heard a Man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.”
Daniel 9:21
yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the Man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering.
Daniel 10:
5 I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold! a Man clothed in linen,
with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a multitude.
13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted Me twenty-one days.
Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help Me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
=================================
Gabriel appeared only to the father of John the Baptist and the Mother of Jesus in the Christian NT/NC, who is mentioned only in Luke's Gospel:

[Please visit this "new house, new stones" thread]

New House New Stones

YLT) Luke 1
:
8And it came to pass, in his acting as priest, in the order of his course before God, 9according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot was to make perfume, having gone into the sanctuary of the Lord, 10and all the multitude of the people were praying without, at the hour of the perfume/incense.
11And there appeared to him a Messenger of the Lord standing on the right side of the Altar of the perfume/incense, 12and Zacharias, having seen, was troubled, and fear fell on him;
Similar event in Revelation:
Revelation 8:3 Then another Messenger, having a golden censer, came and stood at the Altar.
He was given much incense
, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the Saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
18And Zacharias said unto the Messenger, ‘Whereby shall I know this? for I am aged, and my wife is advanced in her days?’ 19And the Messenger answering said to him, ‘I AM Gabriel, who have been standing near before God, and I was sent to speak unto thee, and to proclaim these good news to thee, 20and lo, thou shalt be silent, and not able to speak, till the day that these things shall come to pass, because thou didst not believe my words, that shall be fulfilled in their season.’
21And the people were waiting for Zacharias, and wondering at his tarrying in the sanctuary, 22and having come out, he was not able to speak to them, and they perceived that a vision he had seen in the sanctuary, and he was beckoning to them, and did remain dumb. 23And it came to pass, when the days of his service were fulfilled, he went away to his house,

24and after those days, his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying — 25‘Thus hath the Lord done to me, in days in which He looked upon [me], to take away my reproach among men.’
26And in the sixth month was the Messenger Gabriel sent by God, to a city of Galilee, the name of which [is] Nazareth, 27to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name [is] Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin [is] Mary. 28And the Messenger having come in unto her, said, ‘Hail, favoured one, the Lord [is] with thee; blessed [art] thou among women;’
30And the Messenger said to her, ‘Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; 31and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; 32he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, 33and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.’ 34And Mary said unto the Messenger, ‘How shall this be, seeing a husband I do not know?’ 35And the Messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;
==========================
Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the Chief Messenger, in contending with the Devil, when He disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against Him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke You!”

Revelation 12:7
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his Messengers fought with the dragon; and the Dragon and His Messengers fought,

Notice the one Messenger in Reve 14 telling the One on the cloud to "thrust in the sickle" at the Harvest of the land:

Revelation 14:
14 Then I looked, and behold! a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like as a Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the Harvest of the land is ripe.”
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the land, and the land was reaped.
=====================================
 
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sdowney717

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Judges 2 New King James Version (NKJV)
Israel’s Disobedience
1 Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.

5 Then they called the name of that place Bochim; and they sacrificed there to the Lord. 6 And when Joshua had dismissed the people, the children of Israel went each to his own inheritance to possess the land.


This angel is more than a messenger, this is Christ before his being born as a babe.
This angel talks about MY COVENANT with you, he speaks as God to the people.

Paul also says Christ was leading Israel out of Egypt.

1 Corinthians 10:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Old Testament Examples
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
 
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