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Who is responsible for our sanctification?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Wordkeeper

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    Ditto those who teach that salvation is through entitlement. Children of Abraham through faith alone? Nah!
     
  2. Wordkeeper

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    With your imaginary salvation. Like the emperor and his new clothes .
     
  3. Wordkeeper

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    According to Lutheran teaching, you first offer the law. When the candidate admits it's impossible to accept, because committing to one law means committing to all, then the Gospel is offered. Salvation through accepting as a gift.

    If Christ offered the law, and it was not accepted, why didn't He then offer the Gospel?
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Except that’s what scripture teaches. It’s all by the grace of God.

    I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
    Galatians 2:21
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You’ll have to ask Him.
     
  6. Wordkeeper

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    He's talking about circumcision.

    Galatians 2
    1Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, accompanied by Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I spoke privately to those recognized as leaders, for fear that I was running or had already run in vain. 3Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek.

    4This issue arose because some false brothers had come in under false pretenses to spy on our freedom in Christ Jesus, in order to enslave us. 5We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
     
  7. Wordkeeper

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    So reformed doctrine improves over the teachings of Christ ?
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If that’s true, what he’s saying is that we shouldn’t add circumcision to the gospel, but other works are okay.

    I’m not thinking that’s the case, mainly because I’ve read the whole thing.
     
  9. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Non sequitur
     
  10. Wordkeeper

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    I mean the three uses of law are such important teachings in Lutheran theology. You think Christ would have forgotten about them?
     
  11. Wordkeeper

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    Galatians 2 is specifically rebuking the Judaizers.
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And we have similar ones today...any who add works to the gospel.
     
  13. Wordkeeper

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    Paul is teaching against those who claimed the children of Abraham are identified by circumcision, food laws, rules about sabbaths and full moons, not against those who believe the children of Abraham are identified by loyalty. Big difference.
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And the principle is the same. Works were added.
     
  15. Wordkeeper

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    Just as added works of loyalty perfected Abraham's faith .

    There is a difference though. Jews demanded justification, acceptance by God, based on circumcision. Paul pointed out acceptance, proved by the giving of the Spirit, did not come by works of the law but by loyal response.

    Galatians 3
    2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

    3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  16. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And you promote finishing in the flesh. I’ll stick with hearing by faith.
     
  17. Wordkeeper

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    Flesh is understood as works of the law.
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Which, if you study Romans, is the moral law written on our heart. So anything added to belief in the Gospel is works of the flesh.

    Basically, it’s you trying to produce fruit instead of it being produced by the Vine.
     
  19. Wordkeeper

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    Galatians 3
    2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit
    by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

    3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

    Not really, as mentioned, works of the law is contrasted with loyal response.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Safeism is the new religion. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    No, it’s contrasted with faith. There’s no loyal response mentioned.
     
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