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Who is responsible for our sanctification?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    I understand that sanctification is the result of us responding in faith (pisteuo) .

    Pisteuo or saving Faith is our response to the call of the Father where God initiates the salvation process.

    Saving Faith or pisteuo in the Greek dictionary is ," a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." This continually surrendered life takes a continual choice, continual effort, continual work, and continual courage.

    All this plays a part of fulfilling a daily saving Faith in Christ which changes as we grow in Him.

    Emphasis on the fact that all the work, effort, and courage associated with pisteuo or saving Faith is specifically an essential part of such saving Faith. NOT, in any way adding to, making better, or replacing the "completed" work of Christ on Calvary.

    Are we still in agreement?
     
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Responding to what? Let’s start there.
     
  3. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them.
    The Father initiates the salvation process with that call, not taking Grace into account. We respond with repentance, which is a turning from our way to His way in our mind. We then respond by taking the first step of Faith or pisteuo ( saving Faith ) towards Him.
    So we respond to the call of the Father first.
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I don’t understand what’s meant by “not taking grace into account”.
     
  5. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    Technically, the salvation journey starts with Grace. Or I could keep going back and show where it could have started before Grace.

    Our discussion and for the sake of sidetracking the topic, the salvation process for us begins when the Father calls us out to respond to that call.
     
  6. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Okay. I’m good with that.

    Then hopefully it’s safe to say that we are justified by faith alone, as a response to the call of God.
     
  7. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    You implied that by saying it is only possible for God meant humans could not be responsible for sanctification. It is possible for humans to work for sanctification, by getting God's help. If I said I couldn't get a pilot's license by myself, I'm not ruling out getting help. I can get a pilot's license, with help from am instructor .

    I can be responsible for my sanctification, if I get God's help.
     
  8. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    It's about works righteousness, whether towards justification or sanctification.

    Galatians 3
    3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

    Contrasting the Spirit received by faithing (loyal response) as opposed to nothing, received by works of the law.
     
  9. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    Could you elaborate in your words what you mean by"Faith alone".
     
  10. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Then the verse should read “with man it’s impossible, but with God’s help it’s possible.”
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    That’s not the contrast. It faith vs. faith plus something else.
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    That there’s nothing we can add to our justification. It’s all of God.
     
  13. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Really, the same meaning is being conveyed.

    Mark 10
    27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    But that isn’t what you are saying.
     
  15. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    James says that faith (lip service) is perfected by works (deeds). Both are loyal responses. The Spirit was received by swearing an oath of loyalty. When the opportunity presented, deeds followed. You don't expect challenges and opportunities to appear at swearing in ceremonies, right?
     
  16. watchman 2

    watchman 2 Active Member

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    How in your words do you understand saving Faith is fulfilled?
     
  17. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    I mean that it would require the rich young ruler to sit down with God and discuss terms of surrender. Fishermen are less complicated people. The rich have lateral responsibilities.
     
  18. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Another way of confirming that we are responsible for our sanctification through loyal response is to see the actual results.

    When Abraham confessed that he was alienated by the idea of the necessity of being selfish in order to exist and survive and believed God's promise to make living selflessly viable, he was baptised into Christ. Inducted into an edification course that showed picking up a cross (living selflessly) was possible because God was involved. God created a situation where he was forced to seek shelter in the houses of kings and Pharoahs. He tried to look after his own interest by lying, but it was God who rescued him from danger.

    When these rescues happened several times, Abraham realised that the events had release him from the oppression of the world, the forced living by serving selfish interest, because God was involved. You could say Abraham was the first fruit of the work of the Spirit. Abraham also noticed that these great works of God also forced those who witnessed them to acknowledge God's desire that men live selflessly. In other words, Abraham saw a way in which these great works could be a blessing to others. Therefore, if he manifested these great works in his life through picking up crosses, then this was how the world could be blessed through him and his descendants,by being turned to follow God.

    So much so that when God asked him to offer Isaac up as a sacrifice, he did not hesitate because he was confident that God would bring Isaac back from the dead.


    So also when we confess just as Abraham confessed, great works and words are revealed in our lives, cutting away physical and spiritual chains of oppression created by the world.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    That’s not what James says. Works are the evidence of faith to those around us.
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The cross.
     
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