Who is my neighbor?

[jimmyjimmy]

There is a lot about CF that is antichrist. This shows up most prominently in the way that pro-life has been fettered by the powers that be here.
I was censured at one point for having an image of an unborn baby in my signature, along with a pro-life commentary. Moderators kept urging me to defend myself or they will take it down. My own thought was take it down if you must, and live with the consequences of your own hardened hearts.

My life is resting upon the grace of God. I'm a wretch. I have nothing within me that demands God's acceptance.

Having said that, I still know that theft is wrong. Coveting is wrong, and murder is wrong, and murdering the most helpless creatures is so unthinkable that to do so, or to even speak about it matter-of-factly, reveals a heart so hard a diamond could not scratch it.

 

[SPF]

I guess Christian is used loosely here on Christian forums.
1 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 6
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Disciple, clearly if that's the only response you're capable of providing for the post and questions I provided you, then I have to wonder why you're actually here? As of now, you are pretty much being nothing but a troll.

Can you answer this very simple question - If I were to ask you to explain to me the rules of Baseball, would you use Scripture to teach me how to play, or would you look outside of Scripture for the explanation?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Disciple, clearly if that's the only response you're capable of providing for the post and questions I provided you, then I have to wonder why you're actually here? As of now, you are pretty much being nothing but a troll.

Can you answer this very simple question - If I were to ask you to explain to me the rules of Baseball, would you use Scripture to teach me how to play, or would you look outside of Scripture for the explanation?

I refused to have my appendix removed until someone pointed out that "appendix" was in the Bible. It's after Revelation.

 

[disciple1]

Disciple, clearly if that's the only response you're capable of providing for the post and questions I provided you, then I have to wonder why you're actually here? As of now, you are pretty much being nothing but a troll.

Can you answer this very simple question - If I were to ask you to explain to me the rules of Baseball, would you use Scripture to teach me how to play, or would you look outside of Scripture for the explanation?

I know the truth, everyone who preaches against abortion and claiming their on Gods side is a liar, I'm not taught by hypocrites like you, and it appears your one yourself.
Acts chapter 17 verse 26
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.
I've given you many verses, showing we should have no opinion on abortion, but you claim your right even though you haven't given any verses because there are none.

Look what it said in acts chapter 17 verse 26
and he marked out their appointed times in history

You haven't pointed out one verse.

Matthew chapter 23 verse 4
They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Study the bible their may be hope for you, but not if you continue on like you are.
Here's some verses to teach you how to be a follower of Christ, maybe if you learn you won't be a hypocrite any more.

Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

 

[DamianWarS]

I understand that many of these women and girls did stupid things that got them into their predicament. I understand, as I've done more stupid things than most. But, *I* did the stupid, and sinful things. Unless there is personal responsibility taken, there can be no forgiveness (true mercy) from God, as Christ did die for people who make mistakes. He died for sinners.

Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 5:12-13 "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside."

It's irresponsible to expect someone to come to the place you think they need to be on your terms that they may not accept or understand. A person who does not know Christ, regardless of sin, their most urgent need is to know Christ and our focus should be about helping them get there. I'll leave the true mercy for God but we still have a responsibility to show mercy as the parable show us and as Jesus shows us.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 5:12-13 "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside."

It's irresponsible to expect someone to come to the place you think they need to be on your terms that they may not accept or understand. A person who does not know Christ, regardless of sin, their most urgent need is to know Christ and our focus should be about helping them get there. I'll leave the true mercy for God but we still have a responsibility to show mercy as the parable show us and as Jesus shows us.

Following your logic, these people have no need of Christ. They don't need forgiveness because they've done nothing wrong. They are victims. God owes them an apology.

That's the problem with your view, as I laid out in my previous post: No sin, no need for a Savior.

 

[SPF]

I know the truth, everyone who preaches against abortion and claiming their on Gods side is a liar, I'm not taught by hypocrites like you, and it appears your one yourself.

Here's some verses to teach you how to be a follower of Christ, maybe if you learn you won't be a hypocrite any more.

Disciple, first of all, you need to remove the foot you just shoved deep in your mouth. If you would take a minute and actually browse over the recent abortion discussions you would find that I'm involved in virtually every single one of them. And what do I argue in every single one of them? Well, since apparently your reading comprehension level is sub-elementary school, I'll tell you - abortion is always morally wrong. All humans are created in the image of God and possess inherent moral worth and value.

I accept your apology for ignorantly calling me a hypocrite. Unfortunately, it's "Christians" like you that come trolling into these forums and only end up doing more harm than good.

 

[St_Worm2]

One could equally bemoan how the people on the right seek to take away the freedom of the woman to determine her own destiny.

Hi Paul, no one is taking away the rights of a woman to determine her own destiny, it's called birth control and it's available to all who do not want to become pregnant.

Once someone becomes pregnant however, they shouldn't have the "freedom" to kill their child, even if he/she is still in the womb (they certainly do not once they're born)!

Yours and His,
David

"A baby is cradled / carried in the womb of it's mother, to grow and be nurtured until birth. Each baby is a wholly separate person from it's mother: With different DNA, different fingerprints, with possibly a different blood type or the opposite sex. The baby is a person living within a person and not "the mother's body". The mom is appointed to care for the separate life she carries within her and once it's born, find a home for her baby, if she can't provide one." -- Melody Green
.​

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hi Paul, no one is taking away the rights of a woman to determine her own destiny, it's called birth control and it's available to all who do not want to become pregnant.

Once someone becomes pregnant however, they shouldn't have the "freedom" to kill their child, even if he/she is still in the womb (they certainly do not once they're born)!

Yours and His,
David

That is simple, true, helpful, and brief. It should be as clear as a bell to all people, especially Christians; however, you will soon be slammed for having dared post it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Hi Paul, no one is taking away the rights of a woman to determine her own destiny, it's called birth control and it's available to all who do not want to become pregnant.

Once someone becomes pregnant however, they shouldn't have the "freedom" to kill their child, even if he/she is still in the womb (they certainly do not once they're born)!

Yours and His,
David

"A baby is cradled / carried in the womb of it's mother, to grow and be nurtured until birth. Each baby is a wholly separate person from it's mother: With different DNA, different fingerprints, with possibly a different blood type or the opposite sex. The baby is a person living within a person and not "the mother's body". The mom is appointed to care for the separate life she carries within her and once it's born, find a home for her baby, if she can't provide one." -- Melody Green
.​

Of course you have the right to remain wrong. Just as a side note, there was such a thing as abortion in New Testament times, and yet abortion is never condemned in the New Testament.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Paul, Exodus 20:13 remains in effect today, just like it was in the First Century e.g. Mark 10:17-19.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - here's a short excerpt from The Didache, the earliest of the Christian catechisms, which may be of interest to you since it was written in the First Century.

THE DIDACHE

The Lord's teaching to the heathen by the Twelve Apostles.​

2. "Thou shalt do no murder; thou shalt not commit adultery"; thou shalt not commit sodomy; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use magic; thou shalt not use philtres; thou shalt not procure abortion, nor commit infanticide; "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods" ~The Didache~
.​

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Hi Paul, Exodus 20:13 remains in effect today, just like it was in the First Century e.g. Mark 10:17-19.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - here's a short excerpt from The Didache, the earliest of the Christian catechisms, which may be of interest to you since it was written in the First Century.

THE DIDACHE

The Lord's teaching to the heathen by the Twelve Apostles.​

2. "Thou shalt do no murder; thou shalt not commit adultery"; thou shalt not commit sodomy; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use magic; thou shalt not use philtres; thou shalt not procure abortion, nor commit infanticide; "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods" ~The Didache~
.​

All the more reason, since men were quite ready to condemn abortion in those times, to marvel at how the Lord kept such condemnation out of the New Testament.

 

[DamianWarS]

Following your logic, these people have no need of Christ. They don't need forgiveness because they've done nothing wrong. They are victims. God owes them an apology.

That's the problem with your view, as I laid out in my previous post: No sin, no need for a Savior.

these people are in need of mercy and I have never said anything to the contrary. The parable tells us that to be a neighbour we should give mercy to those in need. I don't recall saying anything remotely close to the idea that anyone is sinless nor does my logic point to that. You're overreaching.

 

[St_Worm2]

All the more reason, since men were quite ready to condemn abortion in those times, to marvel at how the Lord kept such condemnation out of the New Testament.

He didn't keep it out of the NT .. e.g. Mark 10:19 .. "do not kill" Nothing else needed to be said.

 

[Tolworth John]

And, as civilization is made up of individuals, it is also true that, the mark of a man is not how great his monuments are, but how he treats the vunerable.

And the ability to give that sort of care is found only in Christianity.
So only a civilisation that seeks to practise Christianity can be called great.

 

[Emmy]

Dear jimmyjimmy. Who is my neighbour? All I know and all I meet. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. Jesus tells us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it, love thy neighbour as thyself: treat all we meet and all we know like we are loved to be treated.
The Bible tells us: give up all our loveless and unkind words, and love and care all we know and all we meet< our neighbour. Love is very catching, and always right. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: Ask and you shall receive." We ask for Love and Joy and Compassion, then we thank God and share all love and joy, and compassion with our neighbour. God will see our loving and caring, and compassion, and God will Bless us greatly. Ask and receive, then start loving and caring. Why not give it all a good try? God will Love and Bless us, and our neighbour will be truly our neighbour. I say this with love, jimmyjimmy. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[SolomonVII]

All the more reason, since men were quite ready to condemn abortion in those times, to marvel at how the Lord kept such condemnation out of the New Testament.

Are you aware of any woman in the Bible at all who strove to abort her baby?
It is a very modern thing for people to talk about babies as being a burden. Any example of any woman that I cn think of in the Bible describe having babies as a joy, and barrenness as about the heaviest burden that a woman can be cursed with.

I think that in Roman times, the abortion that the Didache addresses was mainly for prostitutes, where big tummies were getting in the way of making a profit. Other than that, women were very pleased that they were women, blessed by children like men never could be.
That is the way that women were back then.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

these people are in need of mercy and I have never said anything to the contrary. The parable tells us that to be a neighbour we should give mercy to those in need. I don't recall saying anything remotely close to the idea that anyone is sinless nor does my logic point to that. You're overreaching.

They need pity, according to you. Girls and women who are seeking to kill babies in their womb need pity. You never called them anything but victims, and victims don't need a Christ or His cross. They need a judge to fine and impression their perpetrators. Who are the perps in you story, again?

How you take a parable about a man beaten and lying near death on the side of the road and insert women who have engaged in fornication, and now with to add murder to their rap shet, is astounding. It's an alternate reality. There not even common sense here. There is nothing for you to appeal to to make the exchange, the guilty for the innocent.

 

[SPF]

All the more reason, since men were quite ready to condemn abortion in those times, to marvel at how the Lord kept such condemnation out of the New Testament.

What Paul is doing here is attempting the fallacious argument from silence. But as anyone with even an elementary level of hermeneutical understanding would recognize is that arguments from silence don't carry much, if any, weight. The NT doesn't condemn 1,000 things that I could list, but that doesn't therefore mean that any of them are acceptable. That's why we use principles to help derive the correct moral position in specific cases which are not specifically mentioned in Scripture.

Now, I realize that as Paul is a proclaimed Baptist, his knowledge of Church history is probably very shallow (not a shot against you specifically Paul, just a stereo-type of Baptists and Protestants in general), and not only that, he probably thinks his Pastor is smarter than the Early Church Father's who many actually knew the disciples and apostles (again, not a shot at you Paul, just an overall disappointing fact of Protestants).

All we have to do is look at Church history and we can see that abortion has been taught as immoral from the beginning. The following is just a very small snippet of the Church's teaching against abortion. Now, as a Protestant myself I do not hold these authors as more authoritative than Scripture. However, what they do provide is a clear understanding that abortion has been taught as immoral and wrong from the very beginning of the Church.

In 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church’s teaching on abortion "is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors . . . I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church" (Evangelium Vitae 62).

"The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).

"The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

"And near that place I saw another strait place . . . and there sat women. . . . And over against them many children who were born to them out of due time sat crying. And there came forth from them rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes. And these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion" (The Apocalypse of Peter 25 [A.D. 137]).

"In our case, a murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from the other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one; you have the fruit already in its seed" (Tertullian - Apology 9:8 [A.D. 197]).

 

[DamianWarS]

They need pity, according to you. Girls and women who are seeking to kill babies in their womb need pity. You never called them anything but victims, and victims don't need a Christ or His cross. They need a judge to fine and impression their perpetrators. Who are the perps in you story, again?

How you take a parable about a man beaten and lying near death on the side of the road and insert women who have engaged in fornication, and now with to add murder to their rap shet, is astounding. It's an alternate reality. There not even common sense here. There is nothing for you to appeal to to make the exchange, the guilty for the innocent.

I have never used the word pity, I use the word mercy. I don't favour the word because it sounds pretty but because the parable favours it and it is the language of Christ. You are welcome to cross the word out in your bible and replace it with whatever you think is better but I will continue to support the language of the parable.

You seem to hang on to the wrong details of the parable. The parable opens with the question "who is my neighbour" and it closes showing the actions of a neighbour through mercy, exposing the question and flipping it around. Putting the emphasis on the victim misses the point as the emphasis is on us. It was the most unlikeliest of person who helped in the end and the ones who should have cared passed on by.

placing a baby in the parable as a victim can be done and mercy can be given to that child however it takes away from the extreme contrasts drawn in the parable between the victim and the rescuer. Why? Because it isn't hard to act on helping innocent helpless babies left for dead in a ditch but it is hard to help someone you historically hate or have just cause to hate. A closer modern day example perhaps would be a Muslim helping a Jew.

Although this parable has actionable concrete items in it that we can apply to our every day we all know it has spiritual application as well as it points to the vast spiritual need of the lost and then the perfect mercy and restoration of God. If you want to apply this parable to your life think of the one you hate the most and then you have identified your "victim". It doesn't matter how deserving the "victim" is but our role is to show them mercy. Perhaps this is why this perspective is so hard for you.