Who is King of the Pit

[Just The Facts]

Hello All

[8] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition;

So the Beast is in the Pit, and unless you believe the fifth Trumpet has sounded he must still be in the Pit.

[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Beast is not the Devil as they are thrown into the lake of fire 1,000 years apart and are clearly not the same entity.

So who is this

[11] They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abad'don, and in Greek he is called Apol'lyon.

We know he is a Fallen Angel and God has given him the title of the destroyer. Which is what Abaddon and Apollyon mean ie:"Destroyer"

So the Question is this. Is the Beast just some no name lackey in the pit or is he The King of the Pit?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hello All

[8] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition;

So the Beast is in the Pit, and unless you believe the fifth Trumpet has sounded he must still be in the Pit.

[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Beast is not the Devil as they are thrown into the lake of fire 1,000 years apart and are clearly not the same entity.

So who is this

[11] They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abad'don, and in Greek he is called Apol'lyon.

We know he is a Fallen Angel and God has given him the title of the destroyer. Which is what Abaddon and Apollyon mean ie:"Destroyer"

So the Question is this. Is the Beast just some no name lackey in the pit or is he The King of the Pit?

Satan is not king of Hell, nor of the Lake of Fire. So why would the beast be king of the pit?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Mark

Well some Angel is clearly the King of the Pit and the Beast is clearly in the Pit. So your position is the Beast is a no name Lackey in the Pit under the Angel who is King?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hello Mark

Well some Angel is clearly the King of the Pit and the Beast is clearly in the Pit. So your position is the Beast is a no name Lackey in the Pit under the Angel who is King?

Where does it say some angel is king of the pit?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hello All

[8] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition;

So the Beast is in the Pit, and unless you believe the fifth Trumpet has sounded he must still be in the Pit.

[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Beast is not the Devil as they are thrown into the lake of fire 1,000 years apart and are clearly not the same entity.

So who is this

[11] They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abad'don, and in Greek he is called Apol'lyon.

We know he is a Fallen Angel and God has given him the title of the destroyer. Which is what Abaddon and Apollyon mean ie:"Destroyer"

So the Question is this. Is the Beast just some no name lackey in the pit or is he The King of the Pit?

Abaddon is" destruction and death" not destroyer. Read Job 28.
Bible Gateway Job 28 :: NIV

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Mark

Where does it say some angel is king of the pit?

In RV 9:11 I posted the verse in my opening thread

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Maria

Abaddon is" destruction and death" not destroyer

as a verb Yes................ as a noun ................as it is used in Revelation 9: it is Destroyer it is this Fallen Angel's title The Destroyer

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hello Mark



In RV 9:11 I posted the verse in my opening thread

It doesn't say he is king of the pit. It says he is king over them. He is imprisoned like they are, no?

 

[Douggg]

Hello All

[8] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition;

So the Beast is in the Pit, and unless you believe the fifth Trumpet has sounded he must still be in the Pit.

[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Beast is not the Devil as they are thrown into the lake of fire 1,000 years apart and are clearly not the same entity.

So who is this

[11] They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abad'don, and in Greek he is called Apol'lyon.

We know he is a Fallen Angel and God has given him the title of the destroyer. Which is what Abaddon and Apollyon mean ie:"Destroyer"

So the Question is this. Is the Beast just some no name lackey in the pit or is he The King of the Pit?

Why is Abaddon not the beast in the bottomless pit referred to in Revelation 17:8a.

Because...

The sequence of events prior to Abaddon being released indicates that Abaddon cannot be the beast, who ascends out of the bottomless pit.

working backwards...

Abaddon - released from the bottomless pit.
the bottomless pit opened
Satan cast down from the second heaven, and tossed the key.
War in the second heaven, Satan cast down to earth
7th angel sounds his trumpet, to finish the mystery of God
the two witnesses ascend to heaven
the two witnesses come back to life
the two witnesses killed by the beast who ascends out of the bottomless pit - Revelation 11:7
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Abaddon is an angel. Abaddon is the king (leader) of the locust creatures.

Here is where the rub comes. It does say in the text, that Abaddon is the angel of the bottomless pit. (1) It could mean that he is king over everyone else in that realm. (2) It could mean that he is an angel as opposed to the locust creatures who are not. (3) It could mean that of the two angels in Revelation 9:1-11 - one is the angel who falls down to earth, while the other is Abaddon, the angel of the bottomless pit.

I go with (3), of the two angels in Revelation 9:1-11, the first one, Satan, is fallen to earth, the other is Abaddon the one in bottomless pit.
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Whatever the choice - Abaddon cannot be the beast in the bottomless pit of Revelation 17:8a.

The beast in the bottomless pit will have already ascended before Abaddon is released.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

So it is your Position that the Beast somehow gets out of the pit before the pit is opened? So the Beast is not really locked in the pit because he can get out when ever he wants!

You also seem to be saying that the Angel with the Key is Satan. While the text does not say that I can agree it implies it.

I agree with 1 and 3 Abbaddon is Both one of the Angels locked in the pit as are all the demons driven out by Jesus and the Saints and Apostles He is their King. The Fallen Angels chose him Eons ago to be their leader, their King.

What I do not agree with is that the Beast can get out of the pit before it is open by the Angel with the Key. No one nothing can escape the prison of the pit until it is open.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hello Maria

as a verb Yes................ as a noun ................as it is used in Revelation 9: it is Destroyer it is this Fallen Angel's title The Destroyer

I believe it is personified and not literally a person/angel/destroyer etc.. It is still considered a realm of destruction. Basically Sheol according to The Jewish encyclopedia.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Maria

I believe it is personified and not literally a person/angel/destroyer etc.. It is still considered a realm of destruction. Basically Sheol according to The Jewish encyclopedia.

Well we are all free to believe what we want. However the Title is given to a living Entity the Angel of the Bottomless pit. Thus it is a noun and Destroyer is correct. Maria it even says it is his name and uses the Pro Noun He. He has a name!

 

[Douggg]

So it is your Position that the Beast somehow gets out of the pit before the pit is opened? So the Beast is not really locked in the pit because he can get out when ever he wants!

The beast in the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8a - is the disembodied spirit of the original serpent beast who was in the garden of eden. He cannot get out of the pit anytime he wants. It is only if God allows it.

There are actually two persons in Revelation 17. Both used by Satan. The first the serpent. The second the end times person.

 

[Douggg]

What I do not agree with is that the Beast can get out of the pit before it is open by the Angel with the Key. No one nothing can escape the prison of the pit until it is open.

We have no way of knowing whether the bottomless pit realm is subdivided in cells like prison or just one open area. An individual person in prison can be freed without the entire prison population.

In Revelation 20:1, there appears to be more than one key to the bottomless pit. So the release of the beast is not dependent upon Satan. The set of keys are kept in heaven.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

 

[Just The Facts]

HI Doug

We have no way of knowing whether the bottomless pit realm is subdivided in cells like prison or just one open area. An individual person in prison can be freed without the entire prison population.

This maybe true however that is not what is stated it does not say one part is open it says The front gate is open. The Key is to the shaft not a section of the pit. The shaft leads to the pit.

I see this point as the major stumbling block for 90% of the interpretations/ understandings of Revelation.

They all have the Beast running around on Earth years before they have the fifth Trumpet sound. Scripture just does not support such a scenario. No where does it say the beast is let out of the pit by himself nowhere does it says the Beast possesses some human. This is all doctrine of men unsupported by scripture.

Having said that lack of statement does not equate to proof of concept. IE: just because it doesn't say it doesn't mean it isn't so. But Scripture does not state that 100% for sure. Since it is not stated it is an opinion not fact.

 

[Douggg]

They all have the Beast running around on Earth years before they have the fifth Trumpet sound. Scripture just does not support such a scenario. No where does it say the beast is let out of the pit by himself nowhere does it says the Beast possesses some human. This is all doctrine of men unsupported by scripture.

I would not say that the beast of Revelation 17:8a by his own power is let out of the pit. Instead, I think God allows it to happen.

Another counter to the theory that Abaddon is the beast - is the text itself does not say Abaddon is the beast.

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Revelation does not say in the text that the end times person is possessed, granted.

But it does indicate that the end times person being mortally wounded but healed, in Revelation 13. How could that apply to Abaddon? When after being released from the bottomless pit is Abaddon mortally wounded but healed?

I think Abaddon is strictly a powerful evil angel, who directs the locust creatures.
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I think the challenge for readers of Revelation is (1) is the beast in Revelation 17:8 referring to one, or two, persons (2) at what point on the timeline is the Revelation 13 one head mortally wounded but healed, to become subsequently known as the beast.

 

[DavidPT]

Hello All

[8] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition;

So the Beast is in the Pit, and unless you believe the fifth Trumpet has sounded he must still be in the Pit.

[10] and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Beast is not the Devil as they are thrown into the lake of fire 1,000 years apart and are clearly not the same entity.

So who is this

[11] They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abad'don, and in Greek he is called Apol'lyon.

We know he is a Fallen Angel and God has given him the title of the destroyer. Which is what Abaddon and Apollyon mean ie:"Destroyer"

So the Question is this. Is the Beast just some no name lackey in the pit or is he The King of the Pit?

The first thing to note, the text never tells us one way or the other whether the king of the pit is locked up with the locusts. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. The next thing to note, look what he is the king of---locusts that are sent out, not to torment the saved, but to torment the lost. If we compare to Revelation 11 and Revelation 13, once the beast has ascended out of the pit it makes war with the 2Ws and the saints recorded in Revelation 13. Since the 2Ws and the saints in question are not meaning the lost, but that the locusts are commanded to only torment the lost, this should maybe tell us the king of the pit meant, this is not the beast since are we never told that the beast also wages war against the lost.

The lost worship the beast, thus the beast would have zero reason to command the locusts to torment the ones worshiping him, plus the text in Revelation 13 tells us that those worshiping the beast ask----who is like unto the beast?---who is able to make war with it?

Some have proposed that the king is meaning satan, mainly Amils propose this, plus there are some Premils that propose it as well. If the king of the pit is satan like most Amils tend to believe, who do Amils propose is the beast then? It can't be the locusts. And it can't be the king if they think that is satan. All I see coming out the pit in Revelation 9 are the locusts, and possibly the king, assuming he has been locked up in there as well, though one can't prove from Revelation 9 alone whether the king is also locked up in there at the time.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Sorry. With all due respect. I do not think many of you are thinking logically. Satan "IS" the one in the bottomless pit that whoever it is that is fallen will set him loose. So it is NOT tenable that Satan is the one fallen and then looses himself who is bound in the pit.

Revelation 20:1-3

• "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
• And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
• And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

This is the SPIRIT of evil (Satan) bound in this bottomless pit, which is symbolized as the Dragon. So He Himself cannot be the falling star who looses Satan.

Don't forget that Jesus Christ is the messenger (angel) who had the keys. It was Him who gave to the FALLEN MESSENGER in order to bring udgment upon the Church. As it is written:

Revelation 17:17-18

• "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
• And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

The ten horns are the fallen messengers of the Churches to whom "God Has" given to judge the unfaithful Church. The number 10 signifying the fullness of whatever is in view, and horns signifying power. They (false prophets and christs) come in the fullness with POWER to do this near the end of the world. Power given of God to judge the Harlot Church. He allowed and used the false prophets and christs to deceieve those people whom He has not yet seal to be deceaived for unfaithfulness. This is how the key was given to them with the authority to loose Satan upon the unfaithful church and make it desolate. For example, when you see abomination stand in the Holy Place (church is the only Holy Place at this side of the Cross), then flee to the mountains. Get out, and flee to the Mountain Retreat! The only true place of peace and safety.

Revelation 17:16

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

To be naked signifies her sin, as indeed it did with Adam and Eve in the Garden when they were clothed of God with a sacrifice. The harlot or Harlot is the unfaithful Church, the woman who reigns over the kings of the earth. This is her being made desolate. The next event after this is the second coming.

So you see, with all the posts going on here, they got the fallen star, the beast, the woman all wrong thinking God was talking about Satan, or evil angel, or antichrist from Europe or woman is RCC or something. They have no clues what they are talking about since they only have carnal minds. Interpretering God's Prophecies with what they like to "see" on Earth.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The falling star of Revelation 9 being GOD'S MESSENGER who happen to be corporate or external congregation.

Revelation 9:2

• "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

First, see my previous post. It speaks on HOW or WHY it was given (by God) to THIS fallen messenger to bring this evil upon the New Testament Church. As indeed God has always done to His rebellious people in the Old Testament as an example! It is as a judgment of God. This takes place when God calls the elect out of His Holy Church:

Matthew 24:15

• "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )"

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-5

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
• Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
• Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"

How will he be revealed? God is not talking about ONE MAN, but the spirit of antichrist is revealed through many false prophets and christs in many congregations. This is the time when God's Messenger presumes to sit in the pulpit and speak for God, rather than let God's word speak for itself. That's what the Sinful-Man taking a seat in the Holy Temple signifies. That the Messenger of the Church sits to rules in place of God. Deciding what laws of God are important to obey and what ones are not, making his own exceptions and teaching all manner of lawlessness in the name of Love, Grace, Compassion and Liberty.

Isaiah 30:8-11

• "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
• That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
• Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
• Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us."

Rebellion always results in God's judgments upon His own people, and an unfaithful Woman (Church) that has turned to spiritual Harlotry is no exception.

The smoke out of the Pit as from a furnace symbolizes the darkening power of evil to obscure, confuse, cloud and obfuscate the Truth or the Bible. Notice it says the sun and the air were darkened by reason of this smoke of the pit. This is the power of Satan, for he is the great deceiver, to obscure the Gospel light and Holy Spirit by deception. So that men without the seal of God could not find salvation (death in Christ). He'll have you eating pig slop and dog food and believing that it is steak. That's the way he works as the great Liar. "Hath God said?" This cloud of his obscures the truth so that you don't recognize what you are doing. And this is the uncanny deception that the fallen messenger looses upon the Churches that they might be damned, that had no pleasure in the truth. This unfaithfulness is an abomination to God, and will leave the Churches desolate. The king of false prophets and christs with HIS spirit is Satan Himself, the destroyer.

Dan 8:25
(25) And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

But it does indicate that the end times person being mortally wounded but healed, in Revelation 13. How could that apply to Abaddon? When after being released from the bottomless pit is Abaddon mortally wounded but healed?

Well now you are assuming it is not meaning it is the Kingdom itself.......... you are assuming it is the King that gets the deadly wound. After all a Beast is a Kingdom or the King of that Kingdom. How do you not know it meant the Beast was almost defeated in war lost its leaders but came back stronger.

You are also assuming it means the first beast of Rev 13: But no where does it say the first Beast of Rev 13 is the Beast in the pit. In fact it implies it is not. Because it rises out of the sea which means people. However the Beast with Two Horns rises out of the Earth which is a far more likely candidate for the beast in the pit of the earth in Rv 17:.

Finally you are wrong the beast does not get "subsequently known as the beast" It is a beast right from the get go which as I stated earlier means Kingdom or King of a specific event of fulfillment. But primarily Kingdom.