Who Is Jesus?

[Baby Cottontail]

For now, yes. It's confusing and I think I'm beginning to understand why.

So many Christians with so many opposing views on Christianity, who's got clarity on this?

Therefore, I will cast this care upon the Lord Jesus and leave this alone.

That is all.

I think it is because not many churches are teaching their parishioners what their official teaching on this is. There are not many sermons on the Trinity, so people draw their own conclusions. There are basically four views that are common:

1.) That there are three different gods
2.) That there is only one God, and that is the Father. Jesus is just a human acting for God, or Jesus is a lesser god than the Father.
3.) That there is only one God, and He takes on different roles throughout time and the Bible. There are no Persons. God can be Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. This results in the Father being Jesus, Jesus being the Father, Jesus being the Holy Spirit, the Father being the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit being Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the Father. No distinctions in Persons, because there are no Persons.
4.) That there is only one God. That one God is three Persons. (In other words, that one God is triune.) God is still one Being and one God. One can send one or both of the other Persons. One can talk with the the other Persons.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

It might be good to condense your last several posts. However, I am curious if you've thought about Matthew 4:17. I think it's an important passage.

As to Matthew 4:17 -- I don't know why you are asking this, as it doesn't really have much to do with the current topic...but....

I have repented of my sins and I trust in Jesus for my salvation. Is that what you were asking?

Romans 10:9-13 (NASB)
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation, for the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

[Adstar]

There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

I believe Jesus was God manifested in the flesh also..

Isaiah 9: KJV
6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The Son of God is a title and this is the reason Jesus is called the son of God..

Luke 1: KJV
35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

 

[GosDontez]

I think it is because not many churches are teaching their parishioners what their official teaching on this is. There are not many sermons on the Trinity, so people draw their own conclusions. There are basically four views that are common:

1.) That there are three different gods
2.) That there is only one God, and that is the Father. Jesus is just a human acting for God, or Jesus is a lesser god than the Father.
3.) That there is only one God, and He takes on different roles throughout time and the Bible. There are no Persons. God can be Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. This results in the Father being Jesus, Jesus being the Father, Jesus being the Holy Spirit, the Father being the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit being Jesus, and the Holy Spirit being the Father. No distinctions in Persons, because there are no Persons.
4.) That there is only one God. That one God is three Persons. (In other words, that one God is triune.) God is still one Being and one God. One can send one or both of the other Persons. One can talk with the the other Persons.

No offense, truly. I'm just not gonna rely on a human explanation on this. There is TOO MUCH confusion on it.

One church says one thing, one church says another. Again, who's got clarity on it?

 

[Baby Cottontail]

No offense, truly. I'm just not gonna rely on a human explanation on this. There is TOO MUCH confusion on it.

One church says one thing, one church says another. Again, who's got clarity on it?

I can tell you which view is considered to be Christian orthodoxy, and has been for years, and years.

Most mainline denominations and many non-denominational churches would agree with the view that there is one God who is triune. There are three Persons in the Deity, and these three Persons are one God and one Being. (See my post earlier that contains the Athanasian Creed to see exactly how the church defined this concept.)

In fact, it used to be that anyone who disagreed with this view was called a heretic, and any view that did not agree with it was called heresy.

Now, things are a lot more lenient, and doctrine is not taught as carefully, and even leaders in churches are disagreeing with the historic creeds of the church. You will get people who identify as Christian who hold to any of the four views that I listed before.

If you are confused about it, then I would suggest talking to your pastor to find out what your church teaches. Look at Scripture, and pray.

I strongly believe that only one of these four viewpoints is fully supported in Scripture. Each of the other ones has verses that can be used in support of it, but do not take into account all of Scripture. I believe that correct viewpoint to be the orthodox viewpoint as outlined in the Athanasian Creed.

 

[dreadnought]

As in last several posts, do you mean all the posts today, or specifically, which ones?

Some of them from yesterday, too?

Is it that you are having a hard time following them because of the number of words?

Or that you prefer reading shorter posts?

Are you reading this on your phone, tablet, or computer?

What about Matthew 4:17 do you want me to talk about? I'm unclear why you're asking me about it.

I have difficulty getting my mind around long posts. Maybe if you'd go back to the last post of yours that I quoted, and condense everything you've posted since. It might be easier, though, just to start at the beginning.

I use a desktop computer.

I bring up Matthew 4:17 because we are investing a lot of time and energy on a single topic, when perhaps there are other topics of equal or more importance. I suspect few people understand Matthew 4:17, yet that seems to be the focus of Christ's ministry (“From that time Jesus began to preach, saying …").

 

[dreadnought]

As to Matthew 4:17 -- I don't know why you are asking this, as it doesn't really have much to do with the current topic...but....

I have repented of my sins and I trust in Jesus for my salvation. Is that what you were asking?

Romans 10:9-13 (NASB)
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation, for the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No, it is not my wish to explore your life. I would like you, though, to understand the meaning of Matthew 4:17.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I have difficulty getting my mind around long posts. Maybe if you'd go back to the last post of yours that I quoted, and condense everything you've posted since. It might be easier, though, just to start at the beginning.

I use a desktop computer.

I bring up Matthew 4:17 because we are investing a lot of time and energy on a single topic, when perhaps there are other topics of equal or more importance. I suspect few people understand Matthew 4:17, yet that seems to be the focus of Christ's ministry (“From that time Jesus began to preach, saying …").

Okay, thanks for answering my question.

I thought that maybe a small screen size could be part of the issue, but it sounds like that is not the case.

Ok. I will try to make briefer posts to make comprehension easier for you. If I make a post that is too long for you, let me know right away, and I'm definitely willing to shorten it for you, or to break it up into several posts.

I don't want to alienate you with too long posts.

I think the current topic is extremely important, and one that is not discussed in churches much.

If you start a new thread on Matthew 4:17, let me know, and I will join in that discussion as well. I think it would be a good idea to keep these two topics in separate threads to avoid confusion.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

No, it is not my wish to explore your life. I would like you, though, to understand the meaning of Matthew 4:17.

Like I said, start a new thread on that topic, let me know what it is (or post a direct link to it on here), and I will join that thread as well as this one.

I think it would be a good idea to keep these two topics in separate threads to avoid confusion.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I have difficulty getting my mind around long posts. Maybe if you'd go back to the last post of yours that I quoted, and condense everything you've posted since. It might be easier, though, just to start at the beginning.

Ok...let's start here. What is your understanding of what I believe regarding God, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit?

If you don't know, just say "I don't know." If you think you understand what I believe, please state what you think my belief is.

That way I know whether or not I am communicating my beliefs to you in a helpful way so far.

 

[dreadnought]

Okay, thanks for answering my question.

I thought that maybe a small screen size could be part of the issue, but it sounds like that is not the case.

Ok. I will try to make briefer posts to make comprehension easier for you. If I make a post that is too long for you, let me know right away, and I'm definitely willing to shorten it for you, or to break it up into several posts.

I don't want to alienate you with too long posts.

I think the current topic is extremely important, and one that is not discussed in churches much.

If you start a new thread on Matthew 4:17, let me know, and I will join in that discussion as well. I think it would be a good idea to keep these two topics in separate threads to avoid confusion.

I don't think the issue of the Trinity is as important as you, but one thing bothers me. I think our one-on-one relationship with the Lord is most important, and I don't understand how you can have a one-on-one relationship with the Lord if you think he is three people.

 

[dreadnought]

Ok...let's start here. What is your understanding of what I believe regarding God, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit?

If you don't know, just say "I don't know." If you think you understand what I believe, please state what you think my belief is.

That way I know whether or not I am communicating my beliefs to you in a helpful way so far.

I don't know.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I don't know.

Thanks. Ok, then I will start back at the beginning.

I will try to take things slower, and I will try to make shorter posts. If you don't understand something I say, or if a post is too long, let me know. I will try to rephrase or make it shorter.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I don't think the issue of the Trinity is as important as you, but one thing bothers me. I think our one-on-one relationship with the Lord is most important, and I don't understand how you can have a one-on-one relationship with the Lord if you think he is three people.

What about God being three Persons do you think would make it difficult to have a relationship with Him?

In other words, I'm asking you why you think it would make it difficult.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who Is Jesus?

The One who literally "rocked" the land of Israel and Judea/Jerusalem and eventually the world.
Thank you Jesus!

Ezekiel 38:19
"And in My jealously, in fire of rage of Me I speak, if not in that day, shall become a great earthquake on ground of Israel"
[Revelation 16:18]
Haggai 2:6
That thus He says, Yahweh of Hosts: 'Yet one little, she, and I am quaking/07493 ra`ash the heavens and the land, and the sea, and the dry,
[Ezekiel 38:19/Hebrews 12:26/Revelation 16:18]

Notice when Jesus entered Jerusalem in Matt 21:10 and the whole city was "shaken/moved", and the greek word used is similar to "quaking" as shown in Matt 27:51,Hebrew 12:26 and Reve 12:26. Fascinating!

Matt 21:10
And of entering Him into Jerusalem, is moved/shaken/eseisqh <4579> all the city saying `Who is this'?

Matt 27:51
and behold! the veil of the Sanctuary/naou <3485> was rent in two from top unto bottom.
And the land did quake/eseisqh <4579>, and the rocks were rent.

Hebrews 12:26
Whose voice the land shakes then, now yet He has promised saying 'still once I shall be quaking/seiw <4579 not only the Land but also the Heaven.
[Haggai 2:6]

Reve 16:18
and became lightnings and thunders and voices/sounds and a great quake/seismoV <4578> became, such-as not became since the men became upon the Land, such proportion a quake thus great. [Haggai 2:6/Ezekiel 38:19/Hebrews 12:26]

 

[dreadnought]

What about God being three Persons do you think would make it difficult to have a relationship with Him?

In other words, I'm asking you why you think it would make it difficult.

Because if God is three people, then instead of having a relationship with him, you have a relationship with them. I think we should have a relationship with him.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Because if God is three people, then instead of having a relationship with him, you have a relationship with them. I think we should have a relationship with him.

Ok. Let's start here.

Even though God is three Persons, He is still one God and one Being. I don't use plural pronouns to refer to God, nor do I think "I am praying to them," when I pray to God.

I am not dealing with three gods; I am dealing with one God who exists in three Persons.

Does that make sense?

 

[dreadnought]

Ok. Let's start here.

Even though God is three Persons, He is still one God and one Being. I don't use plural pronouns to refer to God, nor do I think "I am praying to them," when I pray to God.

I am not dealing with three gods; I am dealing with one God who exists in three Persons.

Does that make sense?

No, not yet, unless you use my explanation that states there is one God who is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like a man can be a father, son, husband, banker, coach, etc. Another analogy: God wears three "hats," that of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

No, not yet, unless you use my explanation that states there is one God who is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like a man can be a father, son, husband, banker, coach, etc. Another analogy: God wears three "hats," that of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I disagree with that conception of God, so that is not my viewpoint.

All right, hopefully you can understand my view a bit better through this discussion then

We'll start with Deuteronomy 32:39 (NASB)
'See now that I, I am He. And there is no god besides Me; it is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal. And there is no one who can deliver out of my hand.

How do you understand that verse?

 

[dreadnought]

I disagree with that conception of God, so that is not my viewpoint.

All right, hopefully you can understand my view a bit better through this discussion then

We'll start with Deuteronomy 32:39 (NASB)
'See now that I, I am He. And there is no god besides Me; it is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal. And there is no one who can deliver out of my hand.

How do you understand that verse?

Without reading everything that leads up to it or follows, I believe this is God speaking to us. Our Father in heaven, God, is making a statement of fact. His words make perfect sense to me.