Who Is Israel?

[TomLine]

According to Scripture, Israel was established by God through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Aaron. That Israel was destroyed in a war between Israel and Rome in 66-73 AD. The current nation of Israel was established by the United Nations in 1948. The question is, is this the same Israel that was established by God thousands of years ago? I, for one, don't believe so. Scripture does teach that Israel would be destroyed by an army we now know to be the Roman army. But, nowhere in Scripture is it indicated that after that destruction will Israel be reconstituted by any multi-national council of any kind. So, the current nation of Israel is nothing but a political subdivision of the United Nations. It is not of God. So why do we treat it as if it were? Good question.

When I was a little boy, I was taught that the current nation of Israel were God's chosen people. That is what religion in America teaches. I was taught that it had something to do with the parable of the fig tree in Matthew 24, and that this all had to do with last days. So, there were those that taught the end of the world in 1984. It didn't happen, so they had to re-calculate. Which they did, many times. But in recent years, the end times theology has changed. They come up with a total erroneous teaching that the temple has to be rebuilt and then destroyed to usher in the second coming of Christ. The problem, that has no Scriptural foundation at all.

Now that may explain why the churches support Israel. But what about the Government.

I know some don't like to hear this, but religion has had a huge impact on the history of America. So, even our Government has considered Israel as God's chosen people. And the our foreign policy has been shaped by this erroneous theology. For, if the current nation of Israel is God's chosen people, then the death of Christ was in vain. Today, true Israel is in Christ.

We have wasted way too much of our national resources, including tax dollars, in support of a nation, and the faulty theology that goes with it.

So, what do we do? We should remove any idea that this is a special nation in God's eyes, and treat it like any other nation. The fact is, it is here, and we can't ignore. But I think it was a big mistake of the United Nations to create a homeland for these so called Jews. But they did, and now we have to deal with it. But we should not fight anymore wars on their behalf.

 

[DaisyDay]

That is what religion in America teaches.

Not all religions in America teach that. It's almost as if you think that your religion is THE religion.

So, what do we do? We should remove any idea that this is a special nation in God's eyes, and treat it like any other nation. The fact is, it is here, and we can't ignore. But I think it was a big mistake of the United Nations to create a homeland for these so called Jews. But they did, and now we have to deal with it. But we should not fight anymore wars on their behalf.

It's not really for them but for our own interests in the region.

 

[TomLine]

Not all religions in America teach that. It's almost as if you think that your religion is THE religion.

It's not really for them but for our own interests in the region.

Who was WWII fought in favor of?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Who was WWII fought in favor of?

To free all the countries that Germany, Italy, and Japan rolled over?

 

[Vylo]

Who was WWII fought in favor of?

It wasn't in favor of the Jewish people I can tell you that much.

Most of the holocaust was unknown or thought to be exaggerations/lies until troops marching on Germany got to see it firsthand.

In fact when the Germans first start persecuting the Jewish people, America's first reaction was to follow suit by limiting and barring them from some universities.

Our reaction in 1939 to 930 Jewish refugees was to turn them away.

We fought in WW2 to protect against continuous German and Japanese aggression that we felt was both a threat to our security and the stability of the world at large. The Jewish people weren't a concern until we fully realized what had been done, and even then we didn't let them take refuge in our country.

 

[TomLine]

It wasn't in favor of the Jewish people I can tell you that much.

Most of the holocaust was unknown or thought to be exaggerations/lies until troops marching on Germany got to see it firsthand.

In fact when the Germans first start persecuting the Jewish people, America's first reaction was to follow suit by limiting and barring them from some universities.

Our reaction in 1939 to 930 Jewish refugees was to turn them away.

We fought in WW2 to protect against continuous German and Japanese aggression that we felt was both a threat to our security and the stability of the world at large. The Jewish people weren't a concern until we fully realized what had been done, and even then we didn't let them take refuge in our country.

What was the impetus of WWII?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

What was the impetus of WWII?

More living space for ethnic Germans and Japanese. Or Lebensraum and The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

 

[TomLine]

More living space for ethnic Germans and Japanese. Or Lebensraum and The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Ah, yes. The famous quote. "We need breeding room."

 

[ananda]

I agree with you OP. The modern "State of Israel" does not equal the Biblical "Kingdom of Israel".

Just like false Messiahs come pretending to be Messiah, this false State of Israel is masquerading as Biblical Israel.

 

[Vylo]

What was the impetus of WWII?

More living space for ethnic Germans and Japanese. Or Lebensraum and The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere

Good answer here.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

True spiritual Israel are those who will to wrestle with God and let go not until blessed.

They are in every nation, tongue, and tribe.

 

[football5680]

I reject the belief that the Modern day State of Israel is God's country or anything like that. They should be viewed like any other country and they do not deserve preferential treatment. Israel is more than capable enough to defend themselves and they have nothing but terrorism to deal with. No Middle East country is going to invade them so their existence is not in question. They also possess Nuclear weapons so if they think they will be defeated, they will take everybody else in the Middle East down with them.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

We support Israel because they are one of the few democracies in the Middle East, and we are long term military allies. I don't think it has much to do with biblical Israel.

 

[SolomonVII]

Israel is the chief American ally in the Middle East.
Americans were once smart enough to recognize that, and even now the old guard of both major parties understand well enough how important Israel is. As America becomes more like Europe, that kind of relationship is breaking down.

Israel is a strong nation, and has no need to play the victim card so necessary for moral validation from the world's left. They are more than capable of carrying their own weight and protecting their own citizens and do so admirably.

Israel is a nation that has become vibrant demographically in recent years. Whereas virtually all other countries of the developed world have lost hope to the point of refraining from procreation, Israel very much believes in the next generation and is beginning to have children again.

In terms of religion, those who read the Bible understand well enough that God has established a special relationship with the Jewish people. There is the promise that those who treat the Jews with honor will be treated honorably by God, and those who deal with Jews brutally can expect the same in return. One might hope that Christians and Americans would give the respect due to the people who have given us the Bible and procreated God for us. We are to honor our mother and father, and as God is our father, the Jewish nation our mother, the mother of our brother even, Jesus.
Israel is a modern progressive nation, much like America, and Canada, and Germany and France and Japan and Australia. It is very much part of the system of limited government which strives to optimize freedom and ensure the human rights of its citizens. Israel is a member of the community of the free world, a vibrant and prosperous member of that blessed few nations that have embraced the American ideal of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

In summary, Israel is one of us. It is a nation that identifies with American values and Canadian values and Japanese and Italian values.

When it comes to nations that share each others values, we ought to have each others back.
I have Israel's back, to the best of my ability. Those who feel that we in the free world have been blessed, might want to look out for Israel too.

 

[TomLine]

Israel is the chief American ally in the Middle East.
Americans were once smart enough to recognize that, and even now the old guard of both major parties understand well enough how important Israel is. As America becomes more like Europe, that kind of relationship is breaking down.

Israel is a strong nation, and has no need to play the victim card so necessary for moral validation from the world's left. They are more than capable of carrying their own weight and protecting their own citizens and do so admirably.

Israel is a nation that has become vibrant demographically in recent years. Whereas virtually all other countries of the developed world have lost hope to the point of refraining from procreation, Israel very much believes in the next generation and is beginning to have children again.

In terms of religion, those who read the Bible understand well enough that God has established a special relationship with the Jewish people. There is the promise that those who treat the Jews with honor will be treated honorably by God, and those who deal with Jews brutally can expect the same in return. One might hope that Christians and Americans would give the respect due to the people who have given us the Bible and procreated God for us. We are to honor our mother and father, and as God is our father, the Jewish nation our mother, the mother of our brother even, Jesus.
Israel is a modern progressive nation, much like America, and Canada, and Germany and France and Japan and Australia. It is very much part of the system of limited government which strives to optimize freedom and ensure the human rights of its citizens. Israel is a member of the community of the free world, a vibrant and prosperous member of that blessed few nations that have embraced the American ideal of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

In summary, Israel is one of us. It is a nation that identifies with American values and Canadian values and Japanese and Italian values.

When it comes to nations that share each others values, we ought to have each others back.
I have Israel's back, to the best of my ability. Those who feel that we in the free world have been blessed, might want to look out for Israel too.

We are under the covenant of Christ, not the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is history, as are the people of that covenant. Otherwise, what was the cross about then?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

We are under the covenant of Christ, not the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is history, as are the people of that covenant. Otherwise, what was the cross about then?

You are correct, and a large majority of Israelis (because they are Jewish) look down on non-Jews, but why flat out tell that to gullible people that GIVE them billions every year? Why kill the golden goose? But there is nothing to worry about; there are no plans to cut funding to Israel. The religious right would not stand for it, God bless America.

 

[TomLine]

Romans 2.28-29, ASV; biblegateway.com

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[SolomonVII]

We are under the covenant of Christ, not the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is history, as are the people of that covenant. Otherwise, what was the cross about then?

I will have to read my post again.
I didn't realize I mentioned anything in it about Moses, or covenants or even crosses.

 

[parousia70]

I will have to read my post again.
I didn't realize I mentioned anything in it about Moses, or covenants or even crosses.

How about this?:

In terms of religion, those who read the Bible understand well enough that God has established a special relationship with the Jewish people.

How was that special relationship you speak of "established"?

Those who read the Bible understand well enough that it was established by and through the "Mosaic Covenant".

There is the promise that those who treat the Jews with honor will be treated honorably by God, and those who deal with Jews brutally can expect the same in return.

I guess we need to Identify who these "Jews" we need to treat so specially are... does Whoopie Goldberg count?

How about Rosanne Barr?

Dr Laura?

The fact is, No Jew alive today can trace their lineage to any pre desolation Hebrew person.

Today's Israel is a multi ethnic secular democracy that has no relationship genetically or religiously to the pre desolation Hebrew Theocracy of the Bible.

One might hope that Christians and Americans would give the respect due to the people who have given us the Bible and procreated God for us. We are to honor our mother and father, and as God is our father, the Jewish nation our mother, the mother of our brother even, Jesus.
.

One group of Christ Rejectors are not favored by God over any other group of Christ rejectors.

 

[SolomonVII]

How about this?:



How was that special relationship you speak of "established"?

Those who read the Bible understand well enough that it was established by and through the "Mosaic Covenant".



I guess we need to Identify who these "Jews" we need to treat so specially are... does Whoopie Goldberg count?

How about Rosanne Barr?

Dr Laura?

The fact is, No Jew alive today can trace their lineage to any pre desolation Hebrew person.

Today's Israel is a multi ethnic secular democracy that has no relationship genetically or religiously to the pre desolation Hebrew Theocracy of the Bible.



One group of Christ Rejectors are not favored by God over any other group of Christ rejectors.

Abraham and Jacob precede the Mosaic covenant.
And who is Jacob, if not Israel?