Who is in charge at a local church ?

[polkaman]

Here is a question that I can't get an
Answer for. I have a question of
Operation at a UMC church. This
Issue does not directly concern
The pastor.
So what title of the person would
I want to talk to ?
Thank you

 

[actionsub]

The question does not include sufficient information to actually direct your answer, so with it being so general, probably a member of the Church Council.
If it's about someone who is employed by the church, it would be a member of the Staff-Parish Relations Committee.
If it concerns the facility, that would be one of the Trustees.

 

[Methodized]

Here is a question that I can't get an
Answer for. I have a question of
Operation at a UMC church. This
Issue does not directly concern
The pastor.
So what title of the person would
I want to talk to ?
Thank you

As said above, operating what? You’ll have to give a few more specifics.

 

[polkaman]

Thank you for the response.
Here is the problem...the pastor is
Going to going to be have a significant
Number of years service..
I thought, along with others, we should
Celebrate...so I did work on the event.
A big BBQ, invite people from churchs
He preached at..etc...fun but respectful.
Well a meeting was held...they decided
A potluck for a crowd of 300+...and that
The staff parish committee should
Organize and send out letters.
Well it's about a month from the date,
Nothing done....no letter, no program,
No word or request or meeting about
Potluck or food.
Someone needs to put their foot down
That this must be done and get on
The ball
But I ask questions...nobody knows
Who is the boss .

I am frankly becoming tired

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thank you for the response.
Here is the problem...the pastor is
Going to going to be have a significant
Number of years service..
I thought, along with others, we should
Celebrate...so I did work on the event.
A big BBQ, invite people from churchs
He preached at..etc...fun but respectful.
Well a meeting was held...they decided
A potluck for a crowd of 300+...and that
The staff parish committee should
Organize and send out letters.
Well it's about a month from the date,
Nothing done....no letter, no program,
No word or request or meeting about
Potluck or food.
Someone needs to put their foot down
That this must be done and get on
The ball
But I ask questions...nobody knows
Who is the boss .

I am frankly becoming tired

The problem is that if you are not part of the leadership of the church, you have no "voice", and therefore no control about how the church is to be managed. That is the reality of your position.

I understand that you have done a lot of work toward the event, but if others are not going to give their support, the best you can do is to just walk away, attend the church services, sit on the back row, and just enjoy the ministry, without being under a yoke of bondage trying to flog a dead horse.

I resigned as a leader of my church because of a bullying situation. Six months have gone by, and after not attending for that time, I am deciding to go back as a mister nobody", sit on the back row and just enjoy the services and not try and influence things, even though I may not agree with everything that is happening. I am just going to enjoy fellowship with those whom I love and respect, and let our parish council do what it wants.

if the church ends up turning to custard, there is always another one down the road!

 

[Methodized]

Thank you for the response.
Here is the problem...the pastor is
Going to going to be have a significant
Number of years service..
I thought, along with others, we should
Celebrate...so I did work on the event.
A big BBQ, invite people from churchs
He preached at..etc...fun but respectful.
Well a meeting was held...they decided
A potluck for a crowd of 300+...and that
The staff parish committee should
Organize and send out letters.
Well it's about a month from the date,
Nothing done....no letter, no program,
No word or request or meeting about
Potluck or food.
Someone needs to put their foot down
That this must be done and get on
The ball
But I ask questions...nobody knows
Who is the boss .

I am frankly becoming tired

The big question for me is when you say "a meeting was held." Who held the meeting? If it wasn't the Church Council or the Pastor/Staff Parish Relations Committee then the group that met has no authority to tell the Staff Parish Committee to do anything.

If the Church Council and/or Staff Parish Relations Committee won't do anything there isn't much you can do about it unless you are the chair or a member of one of those two groups to push your concerns.

 

[polkaman]

First I want to thank people who posted
To this thread.
This to me has become very difficult.
I've talk to church members...they agree
45 years behind the pulpit is something
To be honored and celebrated. In addition,
The pastor has said if we can get 300 people
To a service, he will shave some facial
Hair off.
The president of the staff parish committee
Was talked to about this, and he thought
It was a good idea and supported it.
The meeting that was held invited him,
Along with a person that would do
Power point which we thought was
Also on staff committee, but was not.
The meeting also included the fellowship
Committee.
The group that does the weekly meal said
They would cook for 300...BBQ, beans, potato salad, cake...
But, at this meeting the fellowship people said no...potluck....I don't think they understand the logistics of 300 people, which has been the goal.

And nothing has been done....

Folks I'm sorry....to me this is a total lack
Of respect...to the pastor...to the church...
To our God.

I talked to one person on the $$$ committee,
He thought it a wonderful idea...as we talked
We would like to see the who church involved...the men do the BBQ, the women
The salads, staff pr, special presentation,
Worship and music do special things.

I'm sorry... But this has left a very bad
Taste in my mouth...I do many things
There...but this lack of respect, and failure
To want to do anything....

I am about ready to walk.

I really feel bad for the pastor...just think
How he feels....and this man does
Everything...from taking care of the
Church to the people....
He even does repairs on the church on
His days off...since it needs to be done
And the church claims they don't have
The money...but will not have fund raisers.

Just disfunctional all the way around

 

[Methodized]

First I want to thank people who posted
To this thread.
This to me has become very difficult.
I've talk to church members...they agree
45 years behind the pulpit is something
To be honored and celebrated. In addition,
The pastor has said if we can get 300 people
To a service, he will shave some facial
Hair off.
The president of the staff parish committee
Was talked to about this, and he thought
It was a good idea and supported it.
The meeting that was held invited him,
Along with a person that would do
Power point which we thought was
Also on staff committee, but was not.
The meeting also included the fellowship
Committee.
The group that does the weekly meal said
They would cook for 300...BBQ, beans, potato salad, cake...
But, at this meeting the fellowship people said no...potluck....I don't think they understand the logistics of 300 people, which has been the goal.

And nothing has been done....

Folks I'm sorry....to me this is a total lack
Of respect...to the pastor...to the church...
To our God.

I talked to one person on the $$$ committee,
He thought it a wonderful idea...as we talked
We would like to see the who church involved...the men do the BBQ, the women
The salads, staff pr, special presentation,
Worship and music do special things.

I'm sorry... But this has left a very bad
Taste in my mouth...I do many things
There...but this lack of respect, and failure
To want to do anything....

I am about ready to walk.

I really feel bad for the pastor...just think
How he feels....and this man does
Everything...from taking care of the
Church to the people....
He even does repairs on the church on
His days off...since it needs to be done
And the church claims they don't have
The money...but will not have fund raisers.

Just disfunctional all the way around

I get your frustration! It is a shame to lose a good event for your pastor over process issues.

What I'm gathering is that a wonderful well meaning group had a meeting. But such an event has to run through the Church Council and authorized by them to start with if you want certain people or committees assigned to do certain tasks from the beginning. Otherwise, no one is going to think they are responsible. Because a self formed ad hoc group can't tell church committees what to do.

Just because the SPRC chair thought it was a good idea didn't mean that he/she was volunteering to do it necessarily. They may have assumed that the small group who came up with the idea would do it. And your hospitality committee or group you gathered doesn't have the authority to tell the SPRC what to do.

I know people hate running things through committees. But that is the only way things get done is to start with the committees who actually are in charge of things and get their help.

Again, sorry for the frustration.

 

[bekkilyn]

How about starting a temporary group within the church to plan and carry out this function and ask for volunteers to help? You could even ask the info put into the bulletin or church emails, wherever church functions are advertised. Hold a meeting with all interested volunteers and start planning, deciding how to raise funds, etc. If only two people show up, then it just goes to show that the church in general is really not all that interested. If a good amount of people show up who are dedicated to get the event going, then great.

 

[Methodized]

How about starting a temporary group within the church to plan and carry out this function and ask for volunteers to help? You could even ask the info put into the bulletin or church emails, wherever church functions are advertised. Hold a meeting with all interested volunteers and start planning, deciding how to raise funds, etc. If only two people show up, then it just goes to show that the church in general is really not all that interested. If a good amount of people show up who are dedicated to get the event going, then great.

You can't just ad hoc decide to plan a church events without the involvement of the church's leadership. That isn't the way it works in a UM congregation.

 

[bekkilyn]

You can't just ad hoc decide to plan a church events without the involvement of the church's leadership. That isn't the way it works in a UM congregation.

Don't know about the UM churches you've been a part of, but in mine, church leadership would be absolutely delighted if people were to step forward, organize, and plan events without any expectation that the pastor or some *other* person would do it or even be involved in moving it forward. Sure, run it by the pastor and/or council just to make sure it's permitted, but if you are going to do all the work with volunteers that YOU organize (again, rather than laying it all on the pastor or some other lay leader) then who is going to say no, provided it's not something contrary to church doctrine? (Such as setting up a city-wide gambling and casino conference)

The primary problem is people concoct all of these things that would be "great" for the church to do, but then has all expectation that it is the pastor or a committee or basically some *other* person to do all the work getting it all together, and then later complain that the church never does anything because they had offered such a great idea and nobody cared. Well ideas are great, but ideas don't get things done.

 

[Methodized]

Don't know about the UM churches you've been a part of, but in mine, church leadership would be absolutely delighted if people were to step forward, organize, and plan events without any expectation that the pastor or some *other* person would do it or even be involved in moving it forward. Sure, run it by the pastor and/or council just to make sure it's permitted,

I agree. The key step that the original poster missed is coming up with an idea and expecting the leadership to do it or, not running it by for approval.

I am the lead pastor of a UM congregation and would love for more people to volunteer. They just can't, of their own volition, just take over a ministry without appropriate approval though. That is a recipe for chaos.

 

[polkaman]

Well, its the 4th of july...so time
For some fireworks !!
First...im not a member, but
Attend.,.i also go to christian
Church the same day.
That as of late caused some to
Question...why is he here ?
I help manage a weekly outreach
Supper...help cook, shopping, wash
Dishes, plan meals...etc...im on
That committee. That same committee and group, i come up
With the idea of a fund raiser for
The community emergency aid
Fund...i come up with, got help
Advertised, and was at the church
At 5 am.
Ive also filled in at the office, and
When the janitor is gone, i try to
Do what needs to be done...at
No cost...yesterday i spent 4 to 5
Hours cleaning bathrooms, moping
Floors, vacuuming, watering the
Outside plants....
No church member has walked forward yet.
This idea was hatch for a special
Celebration months ago...the heads
Of several committee knew, and though good idea, and told to run
With it...but then nobody wants to
Do anything or are ""too busy"" or
""Im retired"".
So, it ""just wasnt me"".
The latest, a committee wants me
To do something, which is their
Job...sure, i can say no, but nobody
Will do anything, because a special
Person in the congregation should
Be honored...and if not, will be hurt.
Yes...i have ideas...ways to serve
The lord...that are done in other
Places....one person told me, they
Were not gods ideas but mine !!!
Is starting a food pantry, open to
All, every month, such a sin ? (Oh
Yes, ive worked out the money side,
Church doesnt need to spend a penny
Only provide a small room, and their
Blessing since it would need to
Be non-profit.
I am also pushing for a dvd bible
Study/life group, for the 30 to 50
Age group....we have kids, we have
70+...nowhere in between...
Personally, im im wanting to use
Programs by max lucado..play
Video, and discuss via leaders
Guide...im not a preacher...not
Claiming to be, but just trying
To help....
The minister ?? They are doing the
Kids, since nobody will teach it.
And lets not let the church organization go unscathed....
First, i brought to the attention to
The district of a computer problem
On their end....the responce...have
Someone else fix the problem.
Then...since we are fast running
Out of minister in our area...and
Few new ones comming out....
The only logical, stop gap thing
To do is make a bunch of mini
Preachers...at least able to do
Pulpit supply...to do this requires
Lay servant class ..then online
Classes...the lay servant class is
Not held often, and can be 100 plus
Miles away, overnight stay, etc.
So...as a way to help foster this
Along, i would help sponsor a
Class or two locally...i contacted
The proper people, and asked for
A list of people who could teach...
Have not received a response yet
And it has been a while.
Ok...so am i a bad boy ?...i am
Trying to help....but if im all
Wrong....maybe i am....and should
Never set foot in the place !!

Now, hows that for a roman candle !

Happy 4th, and bless you

 

[actionsub]

Well, its the 4th of july...so time
For some fireworks !!
First...im not a member, but
Attend.,.i also go to christian
Church the same day.
That as of late caused some to
Question...why is he here ?

Then...since we are fast running
Out of minister in our area...and
Few new ones comming out....
The only logical, stop gap thing
To do is make a bunch of mini
Preachers...at least able to do
Pulpit supply...to do this requires
Lay servant class ..then online
Classes...the lay servant class is
Not held often, and can be 100 plus
Miles away, overnight stay, etc.
So...as a way to help foster this
Along, i would help sponsor a
Class or two locally...i contacted
The proper people, and asked for
A list of people who could teach...
Have not received a response yet
And it has been a while.
Ok...so am i a bad boy ?...i am
Trying to help....but if im all
Wrong....maybe i am....and should
Never set foot in the place !!

Now, hows that for a roman candle !

Happy 4th, and bless you

This is one of the main differences between Methodism and the Christian Church you also attend, the church government.
Your other church puts an emphasis on every member being a minister, and historically tried to shorten the distance between clergy and laity. Methodism, on the other hand, can be quite bureaucratic. (I'm having my own issues with the whole "lay servant" thing since our district director apparently doesn't believe in answering email...) Your idea is much closer to Wesley's historic practice, but they've now created a whole procedure for creating these "mini pastors" which refers to them as Certified Lay Ministers (a couple of steps above the Lay Servant) and requires them jumping through nearly as many hoops as ordained ministry, at least in my conference.

 

[polkaman]

Hello, and thank you for your
Responce action.
Yes, i understand....a lay minister
Would be good, and like you said,
Who in their right mind would put
Themselves thru it.
Im in a rural area....where even if
A lay minister...you might cover
A couple churchs....as a "finger
In the dike" measure, at least have
Someone who can speak....we might
Have to go back to "circut riders"
There are many good people locally,
With encouragement, could lead
A service, that have no desire to
Be put thru the meat grinder.
This year we had 58 ministers retire,
8 to 9 new ones....simular numbers
Last year...
Notice a trend ?
The "answer"...from the lofty levels
Are "imports"...ministers from
Across the water, that have a difficulty
With english....who have went thru
The seminary....
Funny isnt it, how so many on the
Boards that decide the "qualification"
Of a clergy....is on staff or affiliated,
Or from the head office...
Could it be "self preservation ??""
opps...boy they are going to be after
me now !!

That ought to light a few sparklers !!

enjoy !!

 

[Methodized]

Well, its the 4th of july...so time
For some fireworks !!
First...im not a member, but
Attend.,.i also go to christian
Church the same day.
That as of late caused some to
Question...why is he here ?
I help manage a weekly outreach
Supper...help cook, shopping, wash
Dishes, plan meals...etc...im on
That committee. That same committee and group, i come up
With the idea of a fund raiser for
The community emergency aid
Fund...i come up with, got help
Advertised, and was at the church
At 5 am.
Ive also filled in at the office, and
When the janitor is gone, i try to
Do what needs to be done...at
No cost...yesterday i spent 4 to 5
Hours cleaning bathrooms, moping
Floors, vacuuming, watering the
Outside plants....
No church member has walked forward yet.
This idea was hatch for a special
Celebration months ago...the heads
Of several committee knew, and though good idea, and told to run
With it...but then nobody wants to
Do anything or are ""too busy"" or
""Im retired"".
So, it ""just wasnt me"".
The latest, a committee wants me
To do something, which is their
Job...sure, i can say no, but nobody
Will do anything, because a special
Person in the congregation should
Be honored...and if not, will be hurt.
Yes...i have ideas...ways to serve
The lord...that are done in other
Places....one person told me, they
Were not gods ideas but mine !!!
Is starting a food pantry, open to
All, every month, such a sin ? (Oh
Yes, ive worked out the money side,
Church doesnt need to spend a penny
Only provide a small room, and their
Blessing since it would need to
Be non-profit.
I am also pushing for a dvd bible
Study/life group, for the 30 to 50
Age group....we have kids, we have
70+...nowhere in between...
Personally, im im wanting to use
Programs by max lucado..play
Video, and discuss via leaders
Guide...im not a preacher...not
Claiming to be, but just trying
To help....
The minister ?? They are doing the
Kids, since nobody will teach it.
And lets not let the church organization go unscathed....
First, i brought to the attention to
The district of a computer problem
On their end....the responce...have
Someone else fix the problem.
Then...since we are fast running
Out of minister in our area...and
Few new ones comming out....
The only logical, stop gap thing
To do is make a bunch of mini
Preachers...at least able to do
Pulpit supply...to do this requires
Lay servant class ..then online
Classes...the lay servant class is
Not held often, and can be 100 plus
Miles away, overnight stay, etc.
So...as a way to help foster this
Along, i would help sponsor a
Class or two locally...i contacted
The proper people, and asked for
A list of people who could teach...
Have not received a response yet
And it has been a while.
Ok...so am i a bad boy ?...i am
Trying to help....but if im all
Wrong....maybe i am....and should
Never set foot in the place !!

Now, hows that for a roman candle !

Happy 4th, and bless you

It is good that you are trying to help. But, not telling us that you aren't a member of the church left out some critical information. Because you've never actually made a commitment to this church in a formal way to support it with your prayers, presence, gifts, service and witness (UMC membership vows) it is bound to make some people ambivalent with how deeply you are involved in running some things and pushing some things.

Is there a reason you haven't made a commitment to the church? It is very unusual for someone not a member of the church to have their hand in so many things at a local church and probably part of why you aren't getting the support you are looking for from some leaders.

 

[Methodized]

Your idea is much closer to Wesley's historic practice, but they've now created a whole procedure for creating these "mini pastors" which refers to them as Certified Lay Ministers (a couple of steps above the Lay Servant) and requires them jumping through nearly as many hoops as ordained ministry, at least in my conference.

Wesley kept a very firm hand on who got to preach in Methodist societies and that expectation that clergy were under the leadership of a superintendent or Bishops has carried over to US Methodism. It isn't bureaucratic, though some things in Methodism can be, it follows the Biblical practice of Christians not being lone rangers who can just run off and do whatever they want in the Church. Methodism is connectional. We have a structure. And, much of the time, that structure helps us to operate in good ways. Any church has to have a structure to function.

I appreciate the original poster's enthusiasm. But a non-member running around trying to push ideas and programs in the church without knowing how to go through the proper processes to get things approved and organized will end up looking like a trouble maker or interferer to many who have made a commitment to the church, as well meaning as it is. If he were a Methodist, or became one, he could take the time to find out how Methodists work as a Church and save himself and the local church a lot of headaches.

 

[polkaman]

I am faithful to the lord

Not a church

And as far as membership...read
The book of discipleship.....

I thought you people said open
Minds, open hearts, open doors.

And so it seems, the methodist
Membership is all important.
Funny you quoted the ""support""
Line....i already do give of my
Money, my talents and my prayers.

And you are a leader ??

Im out of here

Say good bye gracie

 

[Methodized]

I am faithful to the lord

Not a church

And that is the problem. You are doing good things. But you are doing what you are doing in a Methodist church without becoming a Methodist, committing yourself to the congregation, to United Methodism or doing things the way Methodists do them.

Methodists believe in discipline and commitment. If you aren't committed to us and our church then we probably are not going to want you to take major roles in the church leadership. We are very open to non-members being active in the church. But there are certain roles in the church where we expect the leaders to be as committed to the church as the rest of us are because we believe in a disciplined Christian life.

You asked who is in charge of a Methodist church in your opening question. Well, to start off with the members of the church are in charge. So that is likely why some people will follow your lead and others hold back.

You want to be a leader in a Methodist church than commit yourself to being a Methodist and commit yourself to that church. If you want to be a leader without commitment, that won't fly in a Methodist congregation because discipline and commitment are a huge part of our understanding of what it means to be a Christian.

 

[polkaman]

You know...i heard a joke once...
This fellow died and went to
Heaven...saint peter meet the
Man at the gate, said welcome,
Now he said, we need to find you
A place....so they went down this
Long hall..with many doors...first
Door there were bells and drums
Playing...nope, not them...then next
Room they went by, people singing
And loud music playing...nope,
Not there either, next door there
Were people chanting...nope, not
Them either...then st. Peter stopped,
And told the man, now be quiet when
We go by the next door...they think
They are the only ones here.......

Hmmm....wonder who that could
Be ??