Who is Gog of the land of Magog?

[Straightshot]

Many have been taught the idea of Russian involvement with the Middle Eastern states noted in Ezekiel 38

Actually Russia has no federation with the Muslim countries and in fact is a target for radical Islam

"Rosh" in Ezekiel 38 does not refer to Russia, but is translated as "chief" prince of Mesheck and Tubal .... both post flood centers of rebellion in the "land" of Magog against the Lord during the 500 years before Assyrian rule of the region lasting over 1500 years

This same geographic is there today and so are there the mix of ethnic post flood populations who are all for the most part adherents of Islam today .... this is significant because the Lord is pointing to them and not Russia in Ezekiel 38; 39 .... He uses the ancient ethnic names for defining these populations .... these are essentially the Turks, Assyrians, Armenians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Iranians today

What we can learn is that the Lord is addressing "gog", the "chief prince" of the fallen angelic realm who is Satan .... it is Satan who will contrive the Muslim onslaught against His nation of Israel during the coming tribulation .... and all but 1/6 of the 400 million followers of Allah in the Middle East will be destroyed in the battle [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 14:14-20; 19:11-21]

Then the Lord will personally rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years [Micah 4:1-3; 5].... and Satan [gog] will be sent to the abyss so that he cannot deceive the nations that will inhabit the millennium [Revelation 20:1-3]

However, Satan [gog] will be released from the abyss to cause another human rebellion against the Lord and Israel at the ending of the 1000 years .... the terms gog and magog are used again symbolically to define Satan and the rebelling nations of the millennium

The Lord will quickly put down this rebellion and proceed to judge all of the unbelieving spirits from the beginning of human creation .... and then His eternal kingdom will begin with new heavens and a new earth never to end [Revelation 20:4-15; 21]

The idea that Ezekiel 38 refers to modern day Russia is not true .... I used to believe this as well and even the notable prophecy teacher John Walvoord of the DTS taught this interpretation that came from reformation theology

What these teachers did not have was the hindsight of what we can know about today along with the Muslim intransigence nesting in the Middle East, and so the missed place speculation of the involvement of the old Soviet Union now defunct

The controversy of the offset between the offspring of Abraham, Issac/Jacob/Israel .... and Ishmael/Esau/Edom is the actual setting to watch for the time of the end of this present age .... all of the Bible prophets are focused upon Israel and the tiny nation's surrounding virulent enemies of the Muslim populations of the Middle East [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36:1-7; 38; Obadiah 1:1-21; Zechariah 12; 13; 14]

This is still ongoing as we speak and the Lord is going to intervene and settle it once and for all .... the Muslims are going to loose the contest

Satan's beast component is another fallen angel like Satan who does the devil's bidding specifically in the Middle East .... this beast rules over 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms for the devil ... 5 have fallen, and two are next to come, one after the other [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

And the human component of Satan's [gog's] ploy is the little horn of Daniel's visions inhabited [possessed] by Abaddon/Apollyon [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 11:36-45; 12;7; Micah 5:5-6] .... this king will confederate the Middle Eastern Muslims who are now divided at this time, and he will rule over both the 6th smaller and expanded divided 7th kingdom

His point of origin will be in the heart of the region where the core of the Ancient Assyrian Empire was located [Syria/Iraq today]
Last edited by Straightshot; Yesterday at 11:29 AM.

 

[Biblewriter]

The idea that Ezekiel 38 and 39 refer to a great leader from the area north of the Black Sea is not something from Reformation theology. It was taught in the ancient world.

In 378 A.D., Bishop Ambrose of Milan, wrote concerning Ezekiel 38-39, “Gog is the Goth, whose coming forth we have already seen, and over whom victory in days to come is promised, according to the word of the Lord:” (“Exposition of the Christian Faith,” by Ambrose, book II, chapter XVI, section 138, tran. by H. De Romestin, M.A., asst. by E. De Romestin, M.A., and H. T. F. Duckworth, M.A. - From “Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Second Series,” ed. Philip Schaff, D.D., LL.D. and Henry Wace, D.D., Edinburgh, 1884, reprint by Hendrickson, Peabody, 2012, vol 10, pg. 241.) It is well known that the Goths came out of what is now Russia.

Again, the patrairch Proclus (443-447) cited this prophecy in a sermon on the Hunnic invasion, which came out of what is now Russia. he highly respected historian George Vernadsky cited this as the oldest known use of the term Rus in European literature, giving as his source Nicephorus Callistus, Ecclesiasticae Historiae Libri XIV ; 3. ("A History of Russia," by George Vernadsky, pp. 138-139, New Haven: Harvord University press, 1943.) Unfortunately, this source document has never been translated into English.

But even earlier than these, the Septuagint rendered the Hebrew word rosh as Ros, preserving its sound as closely as possible in Greek, rather than by translating it as protos, the Greek adjective meaning chief. In translating, it is standard practice too reproduce the sound of a name as closely as possible, rather than attempting to reproduce the meaning of the name. This proves that the scholars that translated the Septuagint considered this word a name, rather than an adjective.

 

[keras]

His point of origin will be in the heart of the region where the core of the Ancient Assyrian Empire was located [Syria/Iraq today]
Last edited by Straightshot; Yesterday at 11:29 AM.

You are confusing Gog with the Anti-Christ. Two different leaders, who won't ever meet, as Gog will be dead and buried as per Ezekiel 39:11, before the man of perdition is revealed, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, that will be 3.5 years before the Return of Jesus.

 

[Another Lazarus]

You are confusing Gog with the Anti-Christ. Two different leaders, who won't ever meet, as Gog will be dead and buried as per Ezekiel 39:11, before the man of perdition is revealed, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, that will be 3.5 years before the Return of Jesus.

Thats right, Gog whoever is it, Putin or Erdogan shall be mass buried in Israel.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi StraightShot,

I do agree with you that Islam will be brought together by the possessed `little horn,` & that his power base will be in Syria/Iraq.

However I do not agree that `gog,` the chief prince of Mesheck & Tubal is Satan. God`s word gives us Satan`s names -
- the great dragon, the serpent of old, the Devil, (Rev. 12: 9) the destroyer, (Rev. 9: 11) the Prince of the power of the air, (Eph. 2: 2) who holds sway over the whole world, (1 John 5: 19)

God also tells us that the land of Magog is in the far north - the uttermost, extreme parts of the North, the Northern quarter.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Biblewriter]

God also tells us that the land of Magog is in the far north - the uttermost, extreme parts of the North, the Northern quarter.

regards, Marilyn.

Such details are critical to the understanding of the prophecies in the Bible. "The far north" is indeed different from "the north."

I now live in Florida. To me, Georgia is in the north, but Canada is in the far north.

 

[Straightshot]

"I do agree with you that Islam will be brought together by the possessed `little horn,` & that his power base will be in Syria/Iraq.

However I do not agree that `gog,` the chief prince of Mesheck & Tubal is Satan. God`s word gives us Satan`s names -
- the great dragon, the serpent of old, the Devil, (Rev. 12: 9) the destroyer, (Rev. 9: 11) the Prince of the power of the air, (Eph. 2: 2) who holds sway over the whole world, (1 John 5: 19)

God also tells us that the land of Magog is in the far north - the uttermost, extreme parts of the North, the Northern quarter."


Nothing above the Caucasus mountain range is in view in scope of Ezekiel's vision .... the north quarters of the region are Togarmah and Gomer [Ezekiel 38:6] .... the mapping today would be Turkey, Armenia, and northern Iran .... the Lord is pointing to the ancient lands of the post flood populations to designate a broader region of today's northern extents

And it is the central and core of the region today of Syria/Iraq where Satan's beast ["anti-christ"] in the little horn of Daniel's visions will arise

He is symbolically called the "Assyrian" [Micah 5:5-6] in scripture pointing to the location of his rising .... the capital of the Ancient Assyrian Empire, Nineveh on the Tigris River .... the Mosul, Iraq region today .... this same region was called the "land" of Magog in the early days after the flood

This one is the same who will confederate the Middle Eastern Muslims into his Middle Eastern Kingdom, the same one in Ezekiel's vision of the attack upon Israel resulting in the battle of Armageddon and the ending of Satan's beast, the little horn, and his followers [Ezekiel 39; Revelation 19:11-21]

The human little horn that is coming and who will attack Israel is Islam's 12th Imam .... the one that the Muslims are looking for today, and when he appears both major factions of Sunni and Shiite will worship him as a "god", .... Allah is a fictitious pagan"god" who does not exist

Allah is a cover for Satan [gog] .... the Muslims are actually worshiping Satan and do not know it .... the instigator of all of this, who will then be sent to the abyss for 1000 years after his defeat at the hands of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon [Revelation 20:1-3]

The Lord addressed Satan as "gog" and points the ancient "land" of Magog which is still the same today, but just renamed [Magog is symbolic for human rebellion against the Lord]

And when Satan [gog] is released from the abyss after the 1000 years he will again muster a human rebellion [Magog] against the Lord and His millennial kingdom centered in Israel [Revelation 20:7-9]

"Gog" must be Satan for creating two different human rebellions against the Lord 1000 years apart .... only a fallen angel can live as long .... Russia's Putin is not "gog" as some think


https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0393358,46.0681436,6z

 

[keras]

"Gog" must be Satan for creating two different human rebellions against the Lord 1000 years apart .... only a fallen angel can live as long .... Russia's Putin is not "gog" as some think

No, they are two different leaders. The mention of Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:7-8 is merely as a type of the countless horde of attackers. Verse 7 states it is Satan who leads them and instigates this last ditch attack.
Ezekiel 38:3 says that Gog is a prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. It is God who causes him to attack the people living in the holy Land.
SS, you often make comments that show your lack of Bible knowledge and your extreme bias for unbiblical theories. I for one, read your posts with the proverbial 'grain of salt'. But correction just seems to be wasted on you, perhaps if you now admitted to the truth of Gog and Satan being two different identities, I and others may change our opinion of you.

 

[Straightshot]

Keras, you often make comments that show your lack of Bible knowledge and your extreme bias for un-biblical theories.

Get it?

Find something else to do .... and maybe you will be a happier person

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Straightshot,

Here are some more thoughts on this subject.

The Russian Confederacy.

This is a powerful confederacy of nations with the same philosophy and militaristic ambitions. Ezekiel enumerates these nations, delineating them by their ethnic origins. Professors of Etymology, such as Dr. Gesenius, Josephus and others have investigated the identity of these peoples, beginning with the ancient patriarchs of Genesis 10. Their migrations have been methodically traced through ancient records and archaeological discoveries to the present day. The Encyclopedia Britannica is also a source of confirmation.

The final areas of settlement, development and population growth have been established as primarily the Russian Republic. Located in an area stretching 5,500 miles, including Moscow, it embraces nearly two-thirds of the former Soviet Peoples. Obviously it is the dominant force. Allied with Russia, but as separate entitles are the Slovac countries of Eastern Europe; together with the various Republics along Russia's southern border.

Thus the Ezekiel line up of nations –

• The President of Russia has taken control. (Ez. 38: 7)
  
  
• The Slavic nations, once behind the "Iron Curtain" have gained independence but retain the same philosophy and ambitions. (Ez. 38: 6)
  
  
• The erstwhile republics of the U.S.S.R. have become Sovereign States in full cooperation with Russia, now known as C.I.S. (Commonwealth of Independent States) (Ez. 38: 4)
  
  

`Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhastan, Yurkmenia, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, Kyrgyzstan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belorussia, Moldova.`

Plus 3 nations outside this Federation – Iran (Persia), Libya & Ethiopia. (Ez. 38: 5)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

The different reasons Satan is not Gog.

1. God has not told us in His word.
   
   
2. Satan & Gog are seen as separate. (Rev. 20: 7 & 8)
   
   
3. Gog is buried in Israel after the war. (Ez. 39: 11)
   
   
4. Gog is the ethnic name of the people`s from the far north. Thus this name is used a couple of times in God`s word for people`s from the far north.
   

Marilyn.

 

[keras]

Find something else to do .... and maybe you will be a happier person

I do what the Lord has directed me to do and for that reason, I am a very happy person.

Your false idea that Gog and Satan are one and the same is refuted. Will you admit it? Is it possible for you to learn or are you just here to push your own beliefs?

 

[Straightshot]

Tell you what .... I don't think you are a happy person .... your responses do not reflect the condition

Gog and Satan are the same whether you think so or not .... you need more remedial .... however, I doubt that you will change your course

And because of this there is really no good purpose for any conversation with you

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Straightshot,

Now I was wondering why you think this war has to do with the Middle East nations. Is it because you see this as Armageddon?

Just trying to understand your eschatological view, bro. as we do agree on quite a lot.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Straightshot]

The prophets are all focused upon a returned remnant of Israel in the Midst of the tiny nation's virulent enemies round about during the coming tribulation .... this is why Israel is in the land today as we speak

One must read the prophets related visions carefully to discover that the nation's defined are of Middle Eastern origin by name and by location in the region

If you really want to understand this I will assist you, but if not then I prefer to refrain from argumentation .... I don't think this kind of behavior is respectful of the Lord's prophetic word and is harmful to the Christian witness for those who look on

Many on this forum are present just to hear themselves talk, argue, and compete .... "my dog is bigger than your dog" attitudes

I am a serious teacher with years of study in scripture, related historical and geographical knowledge, and can offer much guidance for those who want to learn

So if you can convince me that you have a genuine interest and are willing to learn, I will spend some time with you .... and we will see how it goes

Other wise, I prefer to post my views and let others think what they want

I have found that this is the best way to make any positive contribution on a prophecy forum

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Straightshot,

Thank you for your straight forward attitude. I also would like to respect God`s word & my fellow bros, so we`ll see how our discussions go.

Now can you answer my question as per Armageddon, please. Is this what you are talking about here?
Also can you explain how Gog is buried in Israel? (Ez. 39: 11)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Straightshot]

"Now I was wondering why you think this war has to do with the Middle East nations. Is it because you see this as Armageddon?"


All of the prophets' visions are focused upon the land of Israel in the midst of the adjacent and surrounding populations of the Middle East proper .... and the scope includes things of past fulled prophecy, and the same for those things which have not been fulfilled .... in the same region

Ezekiel identifies the early settlements shortly after the flood by their ancient names and essentially before their migrations out of the Middle East .... these lands are still there today even though borders have been changed .... so the Lord is careful to identify the participants by the early names for correct location at the time of the end of this present age

Russia was not a nation at the time and is not a part of the vision .... then, or today

These lands are primarily all inhabited by the adherents of the Islamic religion today .... and there is a link to them related to the controversy between Abraham's off spring of Issac/Jacob/Israel .... and Ishmael/Esau/Edom

This same controversy is still on going as we speak and the settlement will come by the Lord's intervention at the battle of Armageddon

The root populations of the Babylonians, Assyrians, Turks, Persians, Arabians, Egyptians, etc. are still there and mixed today

The Lord is addressing Satan as [gog] in the vision [Ezekiel 38:17] ... and Satan is also addressed as gog related to another human rebellion 1000 years later [Revelation 20:7-10]

Ezekiel 38; 39 views an attack upon a regathered Israel in the land of Israel at the time of the end at the middle of the 70th week decreed for the nation .... and the battle of Armageddon will come 1260 days later [Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]


"Also can you explain how Gog is buried in Israel? (Ez. 39: 11)"


Satan's [gog's] entire ploy through his beast in the little horn and his human followers of Daniel's visions will fail .... it is not Satan [gog] who will be buried, but the human followers of his failed ambition [39:11-16]

Fallen angels cannot be killed and buried for elimination, and Satan [gog] will live on to cause the next human rebellion 1000 years later

The only way to kill a fallen angel is to cast one into the Lord's lake of fire ... thus shall it be Satan's fate at the ending of his second instigation [Revelation 20:10]

 

[Bobgf]

Also can you explain how Gog is buried in Israel? (Ez. 39: 11)

Hi Marilyn

Gog and his horde will be buried in land now belonging to Jordan:

On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east of the [Dead] Sea. It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. (Ezekiel 39:11)

Prior to the Gog war, the land of Jordan will become a possession of Judah resulting from the Psalms 83 war between the Jews (Judah, Levi and Benjamin) and Jordan (aka Edom, Moab and Ammon).


The Essenes, of the Dead Sea Scrolls, corroborate this saying that after the Jews return from their exile in the wilderness of the Peoples, to their camp in the wilderness of Jerusalem, that they would first battle the Jordanians and then the forces of Belial.

After their exile, Judah's first encounter would be with Assyria allied with Edom, Moab and Ammon (Psalms 83). Then their final battles involves both men and demons - the armies of Belial and the kings of the North. Universal peace and joy would follow this.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/scrolltranslation.html


When the king of the North invades the Beautiful Land, the land of Jordan (Edom, Moab and Ammon) will be delivered from his hand, since Jordan will belong to Judah after Psalms 83.

He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand (Daniel 11:41)


BTW The Essenes were a strict Torah observant, Messianic, apocalyptic, baptist, wilderness, new covenant Jewish sect...They thought of themselves as the holy ones, because "the Holy Spirit" dwelt with them (CenturyOne Bookstore)


Bob..

 

[Straightshot]

A part of the stage is setting up for the attack upon Israel and ensuing battle of Armageddon [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 38; 39; Daniel 11:41; 12; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

Here is a snap shot of these particular Middle Eastern regions [others are also defined related to Satan's [gog's] ploy in [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38]

Ezekiel
38:5 Persia, Cush, and Put with them; all of them with shield and helmet

Initial early post flood regions of the Middle East: today's Iran, Iraq, and Syria/Lebanon listed from east to west before further migrations

The Lord gives the early settlement designations for identifying Israel's Middle Eastern enemies for the time of the end of this present age

https://www.google.com/maps/@31.2811966,59.9960669,3z

Jerusalem Post
07/08/2016

Hossein Salami is deputy head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, which is under the command of the country’s Supreme Leader.

The deputy commander of Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard said the country has over 100,000 missiles in Lebanon alone readied for the “annihilation” of Israel.

 

[stephen583]

The idea that Ezekiel 38 and 39 refer to a great leader from the area north of the Black Sea is not something from Reformation theology. It was taught in the ancient world.

iced

I noticed no one in this thread commented on your post #2 in this thread "Biblewriter". Why would they ?! This thread wasn't created to promote historical, or mainstream Christian eschatology concerning the identity of Gog. It was established to promote modern day "fringe" anti-Moslem rhetoric and bogus eschatology.