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Featured WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Briefcase, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    If you read carefully, I say Rev. 17's Harlot AND Rev. 18's Babylon are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES.

    In Rev. 17 The Harlot = All False Religions of all time, in other words, the Beast's DESIRE to be the ONLY god on earth that is worshiped drives him to kill all Muslims who refuse to worship him as god !! I mean that is essentially what Rev. 13 says, to a tee, we just don't see it !! Any Muslim who will not worship this MAN/666 Beast as god will be killed, so says Rev. 13. And any Hindu, Buddhist, Witch, Jew, Christian who repented after the Rapture, etc. all will be killed. That is what Rev. 17:16 means, ALL FALSE RELIGIONS will be Judged, and that also goes hand in hand with the Jews who repented fleeing to Judea and the Remnant Church becoming Martyrs. Hes killing everyone AND anyone who refuses to worship him as god.

    In Rev. 18 Babylon = Satan's Dark Kingdom of collective Governments on earth. Rev. 18 is this earth getting judged starting in Rev. 6 and running through Rev. 16. But only chapters 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16 are the Judgment chapters. Everything else is Parenthetical Citations.
     
  2. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Like I have told you before on this same issue, God Judges ALL FALSE RELIGION at this time via the Beast who is not going to kill himself, so that is up to God/Jesus to judge after his 42 month reign is over at the 7th Vial, but God is judging HIS FALSE RELIGION at the same time, via the 1/3 God slats with the 200 million Angelic Army, with all the Trumps and Vials, so its not like the Beasts religion isn't being judged, its just that as long as the Beast is alive, he can't be KILLED OFF like the other Religions. That is just common sense brother. Do you want me to write ALL FALSE RELIGION except the Beast's Religion ? That would be a waste of time, we all know that Beast Religion is why hes killing off ALL FALSE RELIGION [Except Beast Religion].........I can add those words every time, but we both know what it means so it would be a waste of time honestly. God JUDGES All False Religion via the Beast and 10 Kings and will Judge them once their 42 Month rule is finished.

    I know this by heart, I have all of Revelation down pat to a tee brother. God has given unto me because I simply humbled myself and asked, WHAT DOES IT MEAN Lord ? It works brother.
     
  3. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Well, revelation 17, and 18 refers to as a woman...it's looks like it's the same woman...the Beast refers to as "it" not "she"....
     
  4. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Its pretty obvious once people stop trying to equate the two in their minds.

    Well I know it started BEFORE TECHNICALLY, but you are missing the point here. False Religion and Babylon go hand in hand, Babylon is noted as the Queen so to speak of False Religion, having 100's of gods and deities they served. When one thinks of False Religion and false gods they think of Babylon, the Tower of Babel, not some mountain a few people worshiped at in Canaan etc. etc. God uses the BEST CLUES not clues that hardly anyone ever heard of on mountain 5 people made a god out of twigs. I mean, you miss the forest for the trees brother. We have to look at WHAT God means, not if it was the first ever false god......God took the most well know city of Harlotry and then but the NAME TAG on her to IDENTIFY her to us.

    It is....but it is about THIS EARTH ONLY.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    But that is not all false religion, because worshiping the beast is a false religion. Also, God does not put it into the beast to judge all false religion. And the main religion the beast is going to be against is Christianity.

    It is not the beast who destroys the Harlot, but the ten kings.
    No, I don't want you write that the Harlot is "all false religion" at all. The Harlot is the Vatican. Something that the 10 kings can destroy by fire.
     
  6. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Its looked at as a Woman, its not a Beast Gov. PER SE, like Rome, Persia etc. Its Satan's whole Kingdom on earth in total.

    We see in Rev.l 17 the Kings HATE the Harlot in Revelation 17:16 and the Kings CRY & LAMENT for Babylon in Revelation 18:9. I made it easy for everyone by typing the name Revelation where the scripture will pop up.

    Both are being spoken of in terms of Fornication, that is why "HER" is used.

    The Kings/Peoples of the Earth FORNICATED with False Gods via Harlotry.

    The Kings/Peoples of the Earth FORNICATED by serving Satan over God in Governance also.

    Ever notice all thee BIG CITIES vote 75-90 percent for the Liberal agenda ? Its like they are all Sodom and Gomorrah, the peoples always seem to serve Wickedness over Godly ways, especially where they seem to gather in huge numbers.

    Study Rev. 17 as False Religion and Study Rev. 18 as False Governance. The Harlot RIDES the Beast. The SHE/HER comes from the fornication angle. Both Religion and Government can be seen as God as Fornication. God wanted Israel to Worship him alone, but He also gave them Governmental Laws, so God sees Fornication as a two headed coin.
     
  7. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    WRONG......You should know better than that brother.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Who gets cast down to the earth in Revelation 12:7-9 ?

    Who is the star "fall" from heaven in Revelation 9:1 ?

    Who is going to get cast down to earth, exposed before kings, that they may behold him in Ezekiel 28:17 ?

    Who is the king of Babylon, who has fallen from heaven, in Isaiah 14:12?

    Who's kingdom must be destroyed, before the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ, in Revelation 11:15 ?

    Mystery Babylon the Great is the kingdom of Satan and his angels. It is mystical because it is not a literal earthly kingdom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    How are the 10 kings going to destroy all the false religions with fire ?
     
  10. Woke

    Woke Member Supporter

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    The name tags on the harlot, as you say, are clues to who the harlot is. If she is named Babylon the Great in scripture, as she is, then she is Babylon the Great. To say otherwise is like saying you are named Johnny Smith, but someone writing that about you means someone else is Johnny Smith. Well, there might be another Johnny Smith, but when someone attaches that name to you they mean you are Johnny Smith, not another person.

    Revelation 17:1-5 states,

    "1Then one of the seven angels with the seven bowls came and told me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2The kings of the earth were sexually immoral with her, and those who dwell on the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her immorality.”3And the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, where I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls. She held in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5On her forehead a mysterious name was written:



    BABYLON THE GREAT,
    THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
    AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    The prostitute is Babylon the Great! There would be no other reason to write that on her forehead in scripture. And it is false religion God holds more reprehensible than human governments, since they claim to represent him. Ones in that group Christ condemned, while he asked his Father to forgive his governmental killers, saying they knew not what they were doing.

    Besides the Beast of Revelation that she rides is clearly shown to be a human governing entity that shares in God's mission with other human governments to destroy Babylon the Great. And all the world's governments are implied, represented by 10 kings. The harlot is not a governmental entity riding other governments. The world's governments exist for a time after Babylon the Great is destroyed as these scriptures from Revelation chapter 14 state:

    "8Then a second angel followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, who has made all the nations drink the wine of the passion of her immorality.”9And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

    Human governments exist for a time, after Babylon the Great is destroyed, and human governments persecute Christ's true church members, after Babylon the Great is destroyed. Therefore Babylon the Great could not represent human political governments. Religious governments yes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  11. pasifika

    pasifika Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so what wrong with the interpretation of the harlot(woman ) in revelation 17:18 by the angel to John...revelation 17:18...the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth....
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's obviously wrong and personal only to you and your beliefs. Rev 17 is clear the harlot is Babylon and names her as such.

    Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.



    Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is not saying Babylon the Great is the woman, and the woman is the mother of prostitutes.

    It states Babylon the Great, Mother of Prostitutes.... whoever, or whatever Babylon the Great is.... was responsible for prostitution of all forms and abominations.

    It is neither. Babylon the Great is the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels. It has to be destroyed before the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ. Revelation 11:15.

    After its destruction, it's king will be cast into the bottomless pit.
     
  14. Woke

    Woke Member Supporter

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    I didn't claim there was anything wrong with the biblical interpretation there. In the post of mine that you quoted I asked if it could be understood that the smoke and fire were symbolic as most everything else around Babylon the Great is symbolic. The word city is symbolic. Most of Revelation is symbolic.

    City means a place. But in this scripture it more closely describes a state of being. That state of being is the idea that Babylon the Great covers over something else as a controlling element affecting that thing. That thing it covers over is this world's political governments.

    The idea the symbolic woman is a city does not stop the city from also being symbolic. There is no city that wears purple human clothes. Those clothes are also symbolic. At the time this was written the word translated purple in our Bibles stood for a deep red color, maybe crimson, that was worn by rulers or noble people. That's why Babylon the Great wears purple. It rules over people, including Kings. Historically religion has done that to enough of an extent to fulfill this prophecy.

    For instance, a King of England started a whole denomination making himself head of the church of England. Church and state were combined there. The Catholic Church excommunicated him.

    Around the beginning of the 20th century in the United States senators repeated speeches recorded during sessions of their senate, claiming it was America's God given duty, and America's God given destiny to control other nations, like the Philippines. This they claimed was America's "Manifest Destiny," bestowed on the nation by God. They claimed God gave the USA not only a right to rule other nations but also the duty to do so. No doubt the same sentiment was expressed among European nations during their colonization periods.

    "Spanish Inquisition, (1478–1834), judicial institution ostensibly established to combat heresy in Spain. In practice, the Spanish Inquisition served to consolidate power in the monarchy of the newly unified Spanish kingdom, but it achieved that end through infamously brutal methods." Quote from Encyclopedia Britannica

    Other church inquisitions that included torturing Christian opposers to its doctrines were carried on inside France and Italy. Those unchristian ideas that led to unchristian actions were formed inside the church, and spread to political agencies, including kings , outside the church, in political governments. Or, as seen in examples one and two, the ideas sometimes arose inside political institutions claiming God, their Christian God, approved of their unchristian actions.
     
  15. Woke

    Woke Member Supporter

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    You know for John to state that he was shown the mystery surrounding the harlot woman, and in the process John is shown the harlot woman has the names written on her forehead BABYLON THE GREAT,
    THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES, AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, then it is grammatically clear that the harlot is Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots.

    And I didn't say Babylon the Great is a woman. I said Babylon the great is a symbolic woman, meaning it is something else, not a woman. Go back and read what I said. Or, don't go back. That's up to you. But what I have said I have already repeated in many posts here. Never did I say it is a woman. What I told the other poster is that the harlot there is the exact same entity as Babylon the Great. The prostitute and Babylon the Great are not different entities as he claims.

    The prostitution BTG engages in has nothing to do with sexual relations. That prostitution instead means it changes the teachings of God to appease society and kings. As examples: (1) Laws in the United States claim abortions are legal. (2) Universities in the United States teach homosexuality is a natural behavior, and not to be judged adversely as unnatural. Some church leaders support such things. By supporting unchristian ideas, which lead people to unchristian behavior, Babylon the Great is committing spiritual prostitution and is responsible for abominations practiced among the people. In the same way God labeled Israel as having committed spiritual fornication with nations surrounding it God labels Babylon the Great a prostitute..Chief offenders to God are those he has assigned to represent him. During the early centuries that was Israel. For the last two thousand years that has been the Christian church. That church like ancient Israel turned into religion(s). I define religion as a set of teachings about God that are controlled by organizations claiming they are Guardians Of Doctrine. That acronym spelling God-a false god. They are Babylon the Great, not some mystical kingdom that you state is existing in some mystical invisible realm. People, even kings, cannot defeat a mystical kingdom. Only God can do that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  16. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Satan gets cast down to the ONLY PLACE in the Universe he has a Kingdom, EARTH !! Missed that ?

    An unnamed Angel who opens the Pit, go back and look at ALL THE REST of the Seal, Trumpet and Vials and see who Opens the Seals {Jesus} Sounds the Trumpets {Angels} or Pours out the Vials pf Gods Wrath {Angels}. So an Angel {Star} falls from Heavem and opens the pit, just like an Angel poisoned the waters, not a star named Wormwood, that name just means Bitter.

    And they ONLY RULE on earth. Which is why the World is Babylon, who do you think they are Confusing ? The humans on earth.

    Its a Metaphor man..........
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  17. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    NOTHING IS WRONG.....Its God via an Angel REMINDING John what he SAW in his VISION which took place in verses 3-6 only. That's all.

    So God is Reminding John that The Harlot IS BABYLON, or is associated with Babylon the Capitol of False Religion. Harlotry and Babylon goes hand in hand. That was just one of the NAME TAGS, the other two were Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth.

    But its more than All False Religion, its also All False Governance. The two headed coin so to speak. Religion and Government. Royalty and Religious Orders are what is meant by Scarlet and Purple, those are the two entities that wore those colors. Google Scarlet and Purple, it will tell you that many Religious Orders wore those colors and that many of the Royals wore the same colors, that is the HINT....False Religion and False Government.
     
  18. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    This is God's RIDDLES no "Someone" so its on a grander scale, just like his 1260, 1290 and 1335 are not understood, likewise this is hard to decipher, but with God all things are possible. Its pretty clear to me she is a Harlot Religion, the Harlot is that GREAT CITY only points John to REMEMBER what he SAW on her FOREHEAD...........Babylon the Great, but he also saw Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. So the Angel, explaining the MYSTERY to John, like he promised he would do in verse 7 says in the last verse basically this, Now John....REMEMBER what you SAW !! that Woman [you saw] is that Great City {Babylon was known for Harlotry thus the NAME TAG on the Harlot was Babylon} the easiest way to tell us who the Harlot is was to SCREAM BABYLON at us, everyone in the world, then and now knows Babylon was world renowned for FALSE GODS !! The Mother of Harlot name tags tells us what Semiramis created, and the Abominations of the Earth describes to us God's contempt for both false religions & false gods.

    So she has been given the NAME TAGS {Three of them} to tell us who she is. FALSE RELIGION.

    In that case she could be the MOTHER OF HARLOTS not Babylon the Great.............Its THREE DESCRIPTORS, not one.

    Of course there is a reason, Babylon is NOTED for False Religion/False gods. You are just all in with your old understandings brother, so its hard to see God's truths, I had to forget my men's traditions to see God's truths.

    It tells is what is going on, God via the angel is EXPLAINING THE MYSTERY......the clues are

    Babylon the Great.......Mother of Harlots.........and Abominations of the Earth.

    False Religion. I mean verse 16 tells us the Kings in league with the Beast KILL HER OFF !! What does the Beast demand ? To be WORSHIPED as the only god ! There is no place for any other gods.

    These Human Governments are run by Satan, read Luke 4, read what Paul says, that Satan is the god of this world.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Everyone posting here believes the woman symbolizes something and is not a literal woman.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Who is that angel fallen from heaven unto the earth?

    Who is the king of Babylon, who has fallen from heaven, in Isaiah 14:12?

    Who is going to get cast down to earth, exposed before kings, that they may behold him in Ezekiel 28:17 ?

    Who's kingdom must be destroyed, before the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ, in Revelation 11:15 ?

    That person is the king of Mystery Babylon the Great.
     
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