WHO IS BABYLON/HARLOT IN REVELATION?

Maria Billingsley

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Rev. 12 tells us what a Time, times and a half means by giving us both versions. Remember, Gof==d gave this to Jesus to give to John !!

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev. 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So God gives us BOTH, so we will know its what Daniel was speaking about, AND so we know exactly how many days it is. At Time is a year, a TIMES is 2 years and a half is a half a year.

Its the 1260 days that the Beast rules and that Satan is cast down to earth for.
I repented from Dispensational futurist theology and stopped following its teachers.
Blessings.
 
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Revealing Times

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I repented from Dispensational futurist theology and stopped following its teachers.
Blessings.
And that in what may makes you right ? You are with the one percent I grant that. I have been preaching 33 years, and this is some WAY OUT THERE stuff. No one believes this Maria. Joseph Smith started a cult in Utah with fringe beliefs. When we are the "FEW IN THE KNOW" you should always be weary its Satan trying to deceive us. Satan never stops, hes like a roaring lion, always trying to deceive us. Satan sends his people out to tell HALF TRUTHS, just like he did to Adam and Eve, "thou shalt not surely die." So we have to be very careful.

I have been involved in Prophecy over 30 years, the book of Revelation, save chapters 2 and 3 which is the Church Age is ALL FUTURE and can be documented via the bible as such.

I never called myself any kind of "TAG", i just used common sense. I have sensed lately people that use these tags are just looking to be different or to differentiate the Church. Nothing past Rev. 4:1 is past tense, period.
 
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Douggg

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The revelation had already occurred.

What do you think the Revelation that God gave to Jesus is?

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This is it, the revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ in great power and glory.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Hasn't happened yet. The visible proof is that the Mt. of Olives has not be split in half yet.

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

OIP.C9oWbalCiafjYuScI6UW2gEyDM
 
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pasifika

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That is Replacement Theology, all you have to do is read Zechariah 13:8-9 and you will know that 1/3 of all the Jews REPENT after the Rapture, as does the Remnant Church of Rev. 12:17. The Woman in Rev. 12 is Israel, the Harlot in Rev. 17 is ALL FALSE RELIGION, it can't be Israel because as Paul said, QUOTING Isaiah, ALL Israel will be saved, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is saved. It happens when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335 {which is 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the 1260} and turn Israel back unto God just like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord {1260 Event}.

So how is Israel the Harlot when God's Says they REPENT ? You got a lot of explaining to do on that.
Hello, just one question....if the woman in revelation 17 is false religion then how can you burn a "false religion"...Rev 18:18..when they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ' was there ever a city like this great city'...
 
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Revealing Times

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Hello, just one question....if the woman in revelation 17 is false religion then how can you burn a "false religion"...Rev 18:18..when they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ' was there ever a city like this great city'...
Rev. 18 is about the Second part of the Two headed coin. Remember, the Harlot {False Religion} RIDES the Beast {False Governance or this world under Satan}.

Babylon in Rev. 18 = the Whole World under Satan's Rule, remember Satan told Jesus in Luke ch. 4 that ALL these Kingdoms were his to do whatever he willed with. I can go over it later and show you why Rev. 18 is about the Whole World. But getting back to the Harlot burning, she does burn, but it happens in Rev. 17:16. The Kings kill her off, burn her, destroy her.

Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

This is just prose, telling us that the Kings in League with the Beast are going to Kill off all other Religions so the Beast can be worshiped as the ONLY GOD. They stop the worshiping of Jesus by the 1/3 of the Jews, stop Judaism, stop Islamic Worship, and Hinduism, and Buddhism etc. etc. etc., they stop all religions because they want the Beast to be worshiped as the only god, hence in Rev. 13 the False Prophet places the Image in the Temple and mandates that all men worship the Beast and the Image of the Beast or else they will die. So these same Muslims who blow up people for Allah, do you think the they are going to go along with this ? I don't, so the Beast/Kings will have to kill many, many, many Muslims, and we know the Anti-Christ/Beast kills 1/4 of all mankind or 2 billion people. So ALL FALSE RELIGIONS are Judged in Rev. 17:16, God placed it in THEIR HEARTS to do His will is what Revelation 17:17 says.

NOW NOTICE, in Rev. ch. 18, these same Kings of the world, Cry and Lament when Babylon burns, but they HATED the Harlot. They are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES. Look at Daniel ch. 5, its the Mene, Mene, Tekel chapter, Rev. 17 is taken from there, King Belshazzar profaned the Holy Temples Cups and his concubines drank from them in a lavish party unto "THEIR GODS" and God then had a Hand write, Mene, Mene, Tekel on the wall, thy Kingdom has been taken from the or Babylon Falls in Revelation !! Its the same the same thing, they acted in a Harlot type manor and thus God took away their Kingdom from them, and Persia conquered them that very day.

False Religion & False Government under Satan. They have been co-mingled for eons, but in the End Times the Beast replaces the False Religion {Harlotry} with a False Prophet that mandates Beast Worship, God himself will judge the last false religious system when he judges Babylon.

So lets look at Rev. 18, and see why it is the Whole World {Babylon} being judged, and lets see if it fits the bill. REMEMBER.....Two Entities, The Harlot RIDES the Beast !!

Rev. 18 = Babylon or the Whole World being Judged.

Verse 2 says Babylon is fallen, and is become a habitation of Devils. Well, Satan and his demons are cast out of Heaven and down to earth, and Apollyon is released from the bottomless pit at the First Woe, so that makes sense, the World is become the habitation of all the devils. CHECK.

In verse 4 God says come out of her my people lest you partake in her sins and her plagues. Well, the Jews flee Judea at the 1290, 30 days before the 1260 where the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem to become the Beast. So Israel flees unto Petra {Rev. 12, the Woman flees to the Wilderness, it all matches up}. If they stayed in the world, the plagues would hit them also.

We know God's Plagues last 42 months. The Beast rules 42 months and Satan is cast down to earth for 42 months, and of Course God protects Israel in Petra for 42 months. So in verse 8 where is says her {Babylon/The Worlds} Judgments come in ONE DAY, we know that refers to the Day of the Lord which lasts 42 months. And in verse 10 where it says her judgment comes in ONE HOUR we know from reading Rev. 17:12 that the Kings also rule with the Beast for ONE HOUR, so we know one hour has to mean 42 Months. Unlike all the other Beasts, this Beast will be a MAN with a short rule, then he will be cast into hell like Rev. 19:20 and Dan. 7:11 says. And finally, notice in verse 9 all the Kings CRY and LAMENT Babylon's burning, because they all love this WICKED WORLD !! And the Merchants and Kings of the earth can't stand to see this happening to Babylon, but what are they seeing ? Why are the Merchants so up set ? Instead of going over the prose in the rest of the chapter, I am just going to tell you what it means.

It means that Babylon {Whole World} has fallen because she is getting Judged by God, who is destroying the Wicked Merchants WORLD, which they chose over God, they chose MONEY, WORLDLINESS etc. etc. over God.

The Anti-Christ going forth to Conquer is the first Judgment, he kills 2 billion people, that is bad for business right ? Losing that many customers is bad, the stench is bad, the famine/war is bad, the deaths and sickness are bad. Then Seal #6 hits and the sun and moon give not their full light, crops don't grow as good etc. etc. THEN....the Trumps hit, ALL the grasses burn, 1/3 of the trees burn, 1/3 of the sea turns to blood, 1/3 of the fish/shrimp etc. die, 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, I assume planes and cars also, 1/3 of all the drinking waters are poisoned, and the THREE WOES are yet to come !! Can you see why Babylon {THE WORLD} getting destroyed by God's Judgments is what is really bothering the Merchants ? God isn't coming to Destroy ONE CITY !! Babylon is the WHOLE CONFUSED WORLD that is fighting against God. Then the 1st Woe hits and Apollyon is released, the 2nd Woe is a 200 Million Angelic Army that slays another 1.5 Billion people !! With the Church Raptured long ago, and 3.5 to 4 billion deaths, no wonder the Merchants are crying about BABYLON BURNING !! Of course the World is BURNING, all the Grasses burned up and 1/3 of the Trees burned up, just think of all the smoke in the atmosphere, no wonder the Sun and Moon's light is now just 1/3 of what it once was !!

And the last or 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials. So once they hit, Babylon {This Wicked World} will be Judged in full, Jesus will take over, lock Satan in the pit for 1000 years, and cast the Beast and False Prophet into hell. Amen.

The Harlot = ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time......

Babylon = the Head of Gold, the Statue will be toppled by the Rock {Jesus} slamming into the feet that has no SOLID BASE/Foundation in that its made of Iron and Clay. The whole Statue stands on a faulty premise, that there can be other gods, when there is only ONE TRUE God.

Babylon is Satan's Dark KINGDOM ON EARTH. Jesus is going to take back the title deed after he defeats all those CONFUSED {Babel} men who fought against their own Creator. Amen.
 
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Revealing Times

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End times experts are as many as the grains of sand on a beach. Each claiming that only they have the truth!

As i have said before, Revelation is the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the Bible.
Knowing how to understand when one hears the Unction of God helps, then people wouldn't have to worry about all the so called experts. I hear them just like you, I discount them. But I also spent 30 years studying and asking God for understanding, you know that is what Daniel did in Daniel 9, he prayed for God to show him understanding whilst he read the book of Jeremiah.

When one can't understand the differences between two voices that come at you, somethings wrong.

I know what I know, and will keep on preaching like I have for over 30 years. I don't really care what people think tbh. And by the way I am a leading advocate against all the RCC propaganda. It has never matched the truth, so I get why these end time guys might irk you a bit being a Catholic.Notice I call the Harlot ALL FALSE RELIGION, not the RCC. Of course there can be some Baptists who are fake Christians and Mormons, etc. etc. But overall it means Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Witchcraft, and all the gods of the Greeks/Romans etc. etc.
 
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Josheb

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Off-topic. Entirely off-topic. Noted as such and ignored accordingly.


This op is about the harlot of Rev. 17 and not about what is the revelation of Revelation. The point in this op at which all of you have chosen to engage my contributions and stalled is the "near of Rev. 1:3 and 22:10. You've just changed the topic, which is what I said futurist respondents would do in an effort to avoid the issue of "near" in Rev. 1:3 and 22:10. What you've done (all of you) is bring up unrelated verses and unrelated concerns and failed to address the "near."

You don't get to do that with me, Douggg (or any other poster). I expect posters desiring cogent discourse to know how to stay on topic and post accordingly.

You are not.


And the events you mentioned have happened. They simply haven't happened as Dispensational Premillennialists imagine they should happen. I'm happy to discuss every single one of every single DPist's concerns after they first address what I have broached. You don't get to change the subject without first addressing the "near." Or concede there's a real problem here the DPist reading of Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 and my concern is valid.


Last chance. Can you do that or not?
 
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DavidPT

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Time, and times, and half a time can simply mean time in it's many forms. Like a 1000 years is like a day and a day is like a 1000 years. Poetic language.


It doesn't really matter what a time, times, and half a time might mean to you though, if it is contradicting chronology. What matters is, where do the texts in Revelation 12 place it chronologically? Clearly after the birth of Christ is where this period of time fits chronologically.
 
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Douggg

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Off-topic. Entirely off-topic. Noted as such and ignored accordingly.
I was responding to your comment... "The revelation had already occurred." I don't think you know what "the revelation" is.

Before a person launches on the meaning of the words and phrases "near", "at hand", "quickly", as used in Revelation, it is necessary to understand what "the revelation" is. Then after understanding it is talking about Jesus appearing, returning to earth in great power and glory, and that it hasn't happened it, evidenced by the Mt of Olives not yet split in half - can a person grasp what is intended by those words and phrases.

You have made the process backwards, by your explanation of those words to force the idea that the events of Revelation have already taken place.

But aside from the obvious, that those events have not taken place, the mt of Olives is starring you right in the face to prove that they have not.

OIP.C9oWbalCiafjYuScI6UW2gEyDM
 
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DavidPT

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Jerusalem is the answer to the title of this thread


You then disregard numerous details in Revelation 18 which show your conclusions are wrong.

Revelation 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Who is the pronoun 'you' supposed to be referring to according to your view?
 
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Lost4words

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You then disregard numerous details in Revelation 18 which show your conclusions are wrong.

Revelation 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Who is the pronoun 'you' supposed to be referring to according to your view?

Still Jerusalem.
 
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Josheb

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I was responding to your comment... "The revelation had already occurred." I don't think you know what "the revelation" is.
So here's the response that stops you dead: I don't believe you know what the revelation is.

So then we end up "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't." "Yes, I do." "No, you don't."

Or...

"No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't." No, you don't."

And I'm not doing that.
Before a person launches on the meaning of the words and phrases "near", "at hand", "quickly", as used in Revelation, it is necessary to understand what "the revelation" is.
Fail. Whatever the revelation is or isn't... it was near. The response, "...and that hasn't happened," is a post hoc argument. DPists make post hoc arguments often and all those learning DPism shake their heads in affirmation instead of recognizing the logical fallacy and questioning what they are hearing/reading. Everyone else catches the post hoc argument and shakes their head from side to side and wonders why you don't know you basic logcal fallacies.


I think you might also be misunderstanding the comment, "the revelation had already occurred." I'm not saying the events described had all already occurred. I stated quite the opposite several times in several posts. The revealing of Revelation had occurred. The revelation of Revelation had occurred. What was revealed to John had been revealed to John and John was subsequently writing it down. Whatever that which was to be revealed was or wasn't the revealing had occurred. If it hadn't occurred John wouldn't have anything to write down.

And Douggg, Jesus has been revealed in great power and glory. It simply didn't happen the way Dispensational Premillennialists think it will happen.

So three fallacious responses and one exegetical failure and I still don't have you looking at the "near." I'll see you in the next op.
 
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Revealing Times

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Still Jerusalem.
Its not the RCC and its not the Jewish people, which is all Jerusalem can mean. We see in Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 13:8-9, Malachi 4:5-6, Ezekiel ch. 37 that Israel REPENT, so why would the Jews be destroyed ? They are protected in Petra, Jesus is going to live in Jerusalem for 1000 years, hes not going to destroy the Holy sites.

Babylon means THE WHOLE WORLD, Satan's Dark Kingdom on Earth. That is what is going to be judged, why would God judge ONE CITY when the whole world is gathering at Armageddon to fight against Him ? God is Judging Babylon, a Metaphor for Satan's Evil Kingdom on this earth.
 
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Douggg

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I think you might also be misunderstanding the comment, "the revelation had already occurred." I'm not saying the events described had all already occurred. I stated quite the opposite several times in several posts. The revealing of Revelation had occurred.
Then that is what you should have wrote. Better yet would be to say that John had been presented Revelation that day on the isle of Patmos.

And Douggg, Jesus has been revealed in great power and glory. It simply didn't happen the way Dispensational Premillennialists think it will happen.

I am not a dispensationalist, but a futurist.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

____________________________________________________

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

_________________________________________________

Zechariah 14:4-5

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

_______________________________________________________

The mt of Olives is still not yet split in half. But the end is near.

OIP.C9oWbalCiafjYuScI6UW2gEyDM
 
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DavidPT

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Still Jerusalem.

That still doesn't answer my question.

Reward her(apparently you conclude this is meaning Jerusalem) even as she rewarded you(so who are you concluding this is meaning then?)

Your interpretation appears to be this---Reward Jerusalem even as Jerusalem rewarded you---so who is the 'you' meaning here then? Apparently 'reward her' in this verse is meaning in a payback sense. So who is the 'you' meaning that needs to payback the woman in question because of how the woman treated them in the past?
 
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Josheb

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Then that is what you should have wrote.
I did. Go back and re-read the post.


And you're still off-topic.
I am not a dispensationalist, but a futurist.
Which is meaningless until qualified. All Christians are partial-preterists in that they believe Jesus is the fulfillment of all the messianic prophesies. All Christians who look forward to a return of Christ in any form are futurists.


The fact remains Rev. 1:3 states the events described were near. That simple statement has a profound effect on futurism. What was future to the first century as it pertained to that "near" is not future to the 21st century.
 
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Douggg

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Which is meaningless until qualified. All Christians are partial-preterists in that they believe Jesus is the fulfillment of all the messianic prophesies. All Christians who look forward to a return of Christ in any form are futurists.
You are making up your own definitions and going off topic.

The fact remains Rev. 1:3 states the event described were near. That simple statement has a profound effect on futurism. What was future to the first century as it pertained to that "near" is not future to the 21st century.
"the event" - what event?

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

In Revelation, the messages to the seven churches instruct Christians on how they are supposed to behave until Jesus's coming.

It doesn't mean that the events of Revelation leading up to the Second Coming of Jesus would happen in the first century. And obviously did not.
 
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Lost4words

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Its not the RCC and its not the Jewish people, which is all Jerusalem can mean. We see in Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 13:8-9, Malachi 4:5-6, Ezekiel ch. 37 that Israel REPENT, so why would the Jews be destroyed ? They are protected in Petra, Jesus is going to live in Jerusalem for 1000 years, hes not going to destroy the Holy sites.

Babylon means THE WHOLE WORLD, Satan's Dark Kingdom on Earth. That is what is going to be judged, why would God judge ONE CITY when the whole world is gathering at Armageddon to fight against Him ? God is Judging Babylon, a Metaphor for Satan's Evil Kingdom on this earth.

Your interpretation my friend ;)
 
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Lost4words

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That still doesn't answer my question.

Reward her(apparently you conclude this is meaning Jerusalem) even as she rewarded you(so who are you concluding this is meaning then?)

Your interpretation appears to be this---Reward Jerusalem even as Jerusalem rewarded you---so who is the 'you' meaning here then? Apparently 'reward her' in this verse is meaning in a payback sense. So who is the 'you' meaning that needs to payback the woman in question because of how the woman treated them in the past?

Still Jerusalem
 
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