Who is a Jew or the nation Israel?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Have you ever made a study on secret societies?

What does that have anything to do with it?

 

[CherubRam]

What does that have anything to do with it?

While you were out to lunch the world changed.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

While you were out to lunch the world changed.

I am not the one out to lunch LOL

 

[ChavaK]

Who is Jewish is a question with complex answers. Under Jewish law a person whose mother is Jewish, either by birth, conversion, or maternal descent, is Jewish. A person who follows the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism is Jewish even if not Jewish by birth or conversion. Those are just some of the definitions of who is Jewish.

My oldest son considers himself an atheist. However, his mother is Jewish and he practices the morals and ethics of Judaism. Ergo, he is Jewish under both Jewish and Israeli laws.

Incorrect. You are Jewish if your mother is Jewish or if you undergo conversion. Merely following the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism doesn't make a person a Jew. Israeli law agrees with that.

 

[Justified112]

Israel is Israel. The Church is the Church. If we understand those simple facts, the Bible is much easier to understand, eschatologically. God's hand is on Israel and modern Israel is proof that the Lord is not finished with His people. There is a prophetic future for that wonderful nation. Modern Israel is the direct fulfillment of the words of the prophets given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. My favorite end time prophecy about Israel is Amos 9:14-15. Once restored to their land they will never be uprooted again. We are seeing the process of fulfillment of this prophecy in our day, praise the Lord!

 

[Shimshon]

Israel is Israel. The Church is the Church. If we understand those simple facts, the Bible is much easier to understand, eschatologically. God's hand is on Israel and modern Israel is proof that the Lord is not finished with His people. There is a prophetic future for that wonderful nation. Modern Israel is the direct fulfillment of the words of the prophets given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. My favorite end time prophecy about Israel is Amos 9:14-15. Once restored to their land they will never be uprooted again. We are seeing the process of fulfillment of this prophecy in our day, praise the Lord!

Bravo, one of my favorite verses. Only I start at verse 11 and call it the Amos 9:11 moment.

11 "The time will come when I will rebuild David's fallen tent. I will repair its broken places. I will rebuild what was destroyed. I will make it what it used to be.

What I always note here is how it identifies David's tent and not one described to Moses. As David's tent of worship in no way fulfilled the actual details described for the sanctuary design given Moses.

 

[Dave-W]

People from the tribe of Yahudah are called a Yahudi or Yahudim.

Only in Hebrew and Aramaic. In Modern English they are Tribe of Judah and Jews, respectively.


BTW - why do you use Hebrew for Yahudah, but English for Israel? “Yisrael” would be more consistent.

 

[Dave-W]

What I always note here is how it identifies David's tent and not one described to Moses. As David's tent of worship in no way fulfilled the actual details described for the sanctuary design given Moses.

David’s tabernacle was a temporary storage spot for the Ark of the Covenant after bringing it back from the Philistines while the Temple was being planned and built.

Unlike Moses’ tabernacle and the temple, it offered unfettered access to the presence of GOD by common Israelites. So Amos is telling of a time when that kind of unhindered access would again be allowed.

 

[Dave-W]

While you were out to lunch the world changed.

“When we met I was sure out to lunch
Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch.”

 

[Shimshon]

David’s tabernacle was a temporary storage spot for the Ark of the Covenant after bringing it back from the Philistines while the Temple was being planned and built.

Unlike Moses’ tabernacle and the temple, it offered unfettered access to the presence of GOD by common Israelites. So Amos is telling of a time when that kind of unhindered access would again be allowed.

Temporary storage spot? How deflating. It wasn't out back as the temple was being constructed. In fact, what was God's reply to David for even thinking about building a house for it? 1 Chronicles 17:4-14 It would seem God never wanted to dwell in a temple. He stated he was intent to dwell in the tent, that he never asked for a house.

4 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord says: You are not the one to build me a house to dwell in. 5 I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought Israel up out of Egypt to this day. I have moved from one tent site to another, from one dwelling place to another. 6 Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their leaders whom I commanded to shepherd my people, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?"
​

And when the real rubber meets the road the house God is speaking of is Yeshua, not Israel or her temple.

“‘I declare to you that the Lord will build a house for you: 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He is the one who will build a house for me, and I will establish his throne forever. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever."
​

I know you know this is about Yeshua. It is why Peter mentioned Amos to begin with. He equated the Tent of David as Yeshua.

 

[Dave-W]

And when the real rubber meets the road the house God is speaking of is Yeshua, not Israel or her temple.

Sod meaning. I am talking peshat.

 

[Shimshon]

Sod meaning. I am talking peshat.

Do you think there will be a tent of David type of worship in Israel, before the coming of Messiah?

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think there will be a tent of David type of worship in Israel, before the coming of Messiah?

Not exactly. But there is a literal open access to the Heavenly throne and HIS presence to all of us thru the blood of Messiah.

And at the end of time that heavenly throne will be here on earth in the New Jerusalem.

Plain meaning.

 

[bèlla]

Kabbalism today use’s angels, magic, and astrology, in their occult system, attempting to control their destiny. The first few chapters of Hebrews is another example, in correcting the Jew's emphasis on angels.

You will find greater adherents to Freemasonry in the church than Kabbalists. And angelology is a Christian fascination. Not a Jewish one.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Incorrect. You are Jewish if your mother is Jewish or if you undergo conversion. Merely following the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism doesn't make a person a Jew. Israeli law agrees with that.

I was just reading an article about people discovering their Jewish roots by genetic testing. But that doesn't mean their mother is Jewish - just that they have Jewish ancestors. If I understand correctly, Elijah is supposed to come and sort everybody out, so when that happens, what happens to those who have Jewish ancestors? Will they be counted among the Jews, or will it still only be those whose mother is Jewish? Do you know if they Rabbis have thoughts on this? What happens to the mixed people?

 

[visionary]

Not exactly. But there is a literal open access to the Heavenly throne and HIS presence to all of us thru the blood of Messiah.

And at the end of time that heavenly throne will be here on earth in the New Jerusalem.

Plain meaning.

Revelation 15:5
And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

[ruthiesea]

Incorrect. You are Jewish if your mother is Jewish or if you undergo conversion. Merely following the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism doesn't make a person a Jew. Israeli law agrees with that.

You must have missed the part where I said that his mother is Jewish. So, under both Jewish and Israeli law he is Jewish. That he follows the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism makes him more Jewish than one who believes in G-d but ignores His words about morals and ethics.

 

[ChavaK]

You must have missed the part where I said that his mother is Jewish. So, under both Jewish and Israeli law he is Jewish. That he follows the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism makes him more Jewish than one who believes in G-d but ignores His words about morals and ethics.

No, I saw that. What I was objecting to was the statement "A person who follows the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism is Jewish even if not Jewish by birth or conversion". Unless one's mother is Jewish or one undergoes conversion, they are not Jewish. There is no "more Jewish", one is a Jew or not.

 

[Open Heart]

A person who follows the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism is Jewish even if not Jewish by birth or conversion.

Hi ruthie. Nice to meet you.

Can you tell me what denomination of Judaism teaches that someone who is not Jewish by birth or conversion, but merely follows the moral and ethical teachings of Judaism is a Jew?

 

[visionary]