Who hasnt been baptised?

[stephen583]

Jim Jones was both a member of the Methodist and Pentecostal Churches. He was an ordained minister as well, so I'm pretty sure at some point he was baptized.

You know the guy who had a visiting politician and his team gunned down in Guiana and then served poison "Kool-aid" to all his followers ?

Saved or Unsaved ? How about the other false messiah "David Koresh" ?

I would venture to say every false messiah has been water baptized, wouldn't you ?

 

[Goodbook]

Jim Jones was both a member of the Methodist and Pentecostal Churches. He was an ordained minister as well, so I'm pretty sure at some point he was baptized.

You know the guy who had a visiting politician and his team gunned down in Guiana and then served poison "Kool-aid" to all his followers ?

Saved or Unsaved ? How about the other false messiah "David Koresh" ?

I would venture to say every false messiah has been water baptized, wouldn't you ?

No i am asking people here of theyve been baptized, or not. Not other people, YOU. If you dont know them personally, you have no right to say. You do not know them.

If you dont know what baptism is, read the bible again, if you dont know what repentence is, read the bible again and the bible never says you have to be an ordained minister of a denom church to believe in Jesus.

 

[Goodbook]

Just answer the question. Have you been baptised or not. If not, why not?

 

[Alithis]

and thinks they are christian?
Can you truly be a christian without being baptised?
It seems to me many people would LIKE to be but they arent baptised for some strange reason. Why not?

If you haven't experienced baptism, what is your reasoning?

Can you truly be a christian without being baptised? no you can't because it is like asking can you truly obey god while wilfully disobeying him .. its extremely clear . repent , be baptised for the remission of your sin and recive the Holy ghost .

it is nothing more then disobedience to not be baptised and to remain disobedient by will is rebellion

 

[Dave-W]

To whom are you replying?

She is the OP, she does not need to be replying to anyone.

 

[Dave-W]

it is nothing more then disobedience to not be baptised and to remain disobedient by will is rebellion

Matt 28.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

To whom exactly is this command given? Not the new believers.

If it is disobedience to not be baptized, it is disobedience on the part of the person sharing the gospel, NOT the new believer.

 

[Archivist]

She is the OP, she does not need to be replying to anyone.

Actually you don't have to reply even if you aren't the OP. However she seemed to be commenting on what I had just said, and when doing that it us normal practice to hit reply.

 

[stephen583]

I was water baptized in a Southern Baptist Church as a young man. However, one Sunday I was informed I could no longer attend Church services because my clothes were too shabby.

My family was very poor. My dad worked as a carpenter and my mom was a fast food cashier. Looking back at my old school class pictures, I have to admit the knees of my pants were a bit thread bear and shiny.. but my clothes were always very clean, especially on Sunday.

Upon hearing the news, my dad offered to buy me a suit and tie for Church.. he said we'd find the money somewhere. I told him not to bother. If Church was nothing more than a place people went to compare clothes.. I 'd rather not go back. I renounced my baptism as a Southern Baptist and never looked back.

The rest of my life I remained a "non-clerical" "non-denominational" Christian. I don't believe in organized religion, or sectarianism.

Does that count in your view ? Probably not, frankly I don't care. I don't need the approval or authorization of your Church, or any other Church to baptize someone else, (Mark 9:39, Luke 9:50).

 

[Alithis]

Matt 28.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

To whom exactly is this command given? Not the new believers.

If it is disobedience to not be baptized, it is disobedience on the part of the person sharing the gospel, NOT the new believer.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. - Matthew 28:18-20 ..you will note in there he says "teaching them " it must be taught (preached)what they are to do.
Then it's also repeated to teach "them" to observe (do) all he commands.
So it's very plain it is to be taught and then the person is to respond obediently .
And else where the list is more complete saying to heal the sick ,preach the gospel,drive out devils,..baptizing them.. Baptism is an obedient response to the instructions of the Gospel being taught.disobey if we don't teach it.they disobey if they don't respond .since repentance is the first instruction ,baptizing a person outside their will and without their repentance is nothing more then a forced swim.

And the Op asks "can They be christian if they are not baptised".(not are they saved)not all Christians are saved.Jesus says so in the parables) so if they say they are christian and then are taught about baptism and then refuse to obey Jesus teaching.they are in a state of Un repentance. They are going "their own "way .they need to repent( rethink change there mind )and go God's way
My reply is ..untill they Do they cannot be his disciples.

 

[Alithis]

Jim Jones was both a member of the Methodist and Pentecostal Churches. He was an ordained minister as well, so I'm pretty sure at some point he was baptized.

You know the guy who had a visiting politician and his team gunned down in Guiana and then served poison "Kool-aid" to all his followers ?

Saved or Unsaved ? How about the other false messiah "David Koresh" ?

I would venture to say every false messiah has been water baptized, wouldn't you ?

Pointing out oddball exceptions doesnt help. But it does highlight the danger of baptizing an unrepentant person with no faith.

 

[stephen583]

Water baptism doesn't save anyone. It certainly doesn't save anyone permanently as in "Once Saved Always Saved". It's merely a ritual that demonstrates an individuals spiritual desire to repent.

John was baptizing Jews so they might "repent" and become better Jews. John was calling for the reformation and repentance of Judaism. Remember there was no religion called "Christianity" yet. Not at that point in time anyway. So here is a biblical case of non-Christians being baptized. Point is, baptism doesn't necessarily make a Christian.

The whole premise that "baptism" alone creates Christians is totally antithetical to Christian theology. According to Scripture, one has to make their lives a "living sacrifice" to God, (Romans 12:1-5). This "sacrifice" takes place on a daily basis, it is not a "one off" perfunctory ritual.

Reducing Christianity to a single ritual water baptism is completely unscriptural. Of course we were warned the time was coming when Christians would "no longer endure sound doctrine, and after their own lusts they would heap to themselves teachers having itching ears", (2 Timothy 4:3).

 

[stephen583]

As for the "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine ? You might consider what Christ has to say concerning this matter.

"Anyone having set his hand to the plow, and then having looked back, is not fit for the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:62).

So much for "Once Saved Always Saved" !

 

[stephen583]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Notice in the passage you quote (Matthew 28:18-20) there is no specific mention of "water" baptism found there. To the contrary, it does specifically mention "teaching" (as in ministering and preaching unto others).. So you're conclusion this particular passage should be "elasticized" (stretched) to include baptism by "water" is totally arbitrary on your part and unsupported by the Scripture you quote.

 

[stephen583]

It's not surprising ritualism in the form of "water" baptism should have replaced baptism by the Holy Spirit and the daily spiritual "sacrifice" required by Christians according to sound Christian theology.

Ancient pagan religions required "perfunctory" ritual sacrifices. Visiting shrines and temples to offer "gifts" and prayers to idols and gods of stone.

The Romans were also experts at "assimilating" other people by adopting their religion. At one time, the ancient city of Rome had over 600 temples devoted to different gods. It was like an ancient form of todays "Interfaith" religious movement.

This is precisely what happened to Christianity and the Early Church.. where meaningless perfunctory rites (such as receiving the Eucharist, confession and water baptism) were "erroneously" elevated by the Church of Rome as the primary focus of Christianity.

To appeal to the ancient masses, Christianity had to be transformed into a pagan (ritual based) religion.. and that's exactly what took place historically !..

 

[Alithis]

Notice in the passage you quote (Matthew 28:18-20) there is no specific mention of "water" baptism found there. To the contrary, it does specifically mention "teaching" (as in ministering and preaching unto others).. So you're conclusion this particular passage should be "elasticized" (stretched) to include baptism by "water" is totally arbitrary on your part and unsupported by the Scripture you quote.

Well let's think about that.. Can you or any man baptize in the holy spirit ? Nope . so it's rather obvious he is referring to water baptism .

 

[Blade]

and thinks they are christian?

Can you truly be a christian without being baptised? It seems to me many people would LIKE to be but they arent baptised for some strange reason. Why not?

If you havent experienced baptism, what is your reasoning?

Yes.. you can be saved and never be baptized. For anyone that simply calls on the name of the lord shall be saved. The thief on the cross..never baptised yet.. is with Christ right now.
War... did anyone read the OT? The word "OLD" dose not make it void or of not effect. What..Jesus telling them to get a sword why? To just KILL food? Your life what you personally believe is NOT HIS WORD. How you KNOW you should live in this world praise GOD is NOT His will for others. Jesus said..if this was HIS kingdom HIS servants would do what? Well we are here.

How to people think we got this land. How did Israel get that land. ON and on and on.

 

[Alithis]

Yes.. you can be saved and never be baptized. For anyone that simply calls on the name of the lord shall be saved. The thief on the cross..never baptised yet.. is with Christ right now.
War... did anyone read the OT? The word "OLD" dose not make it void or of not effect. What..Jesus telling them to get a sword why? To just KILL food? Your life what you personally believe is NOT HIS WORD. How you KNOW you should live in this world praise GOD is NOT His will for others. Jesus said..if this was HIS kingdom HIS servants would do what? Well we are here.

How to people think we got this land. How did Israel get that land. ON and on and on.

i am happy to interject here on this post .
firstly let us deal with the thief on the cross ... can you explain how he was to be baptised into the death and resurrection of Jesus, when jesus had neither yet died, nor been resurrected yet? he could not be . but had he that thief been rescued from the cross we all know he would have hurried to do so . so we know god sees the heart and that his intent was one of utmost sincerity . but we do not build a theology on a one off exception . jesus commanded baptism . therefore if one who claims to be his follower then refuses to FOLLOW his instructions they prove they follow "their own way " not HIS way . and this shows they have not yet Repented . and if they have neither repented nor obeyed they show they do not love him and they are rejecting his words .
they are anything but saved .

 

[stephen583]

Well let's think about that.. Can you or any man baptize in the holy spirit ? Nope . so it's rather obvious he is referring to water baptism .

Your wrong there. The Book of Acts refers specifically to the "laying on of hands".

"Then Peter and John laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:17).

Seriously ! Do you guys even read the Bible before you make these posts ?

 

[stephen583]

You accuse me of being willfully disobedient to God ? Yet it is your churches that have constructed temples and cathedrals of stone and mortar, and declared them Holy Places. You worship relics, icons and statues of stone as being sacred. You've even declared the ground on which your churches are built as being sacred holy ground.

In the Holy Land you've declared different locations to be sacred and holy.. Jerusalem and Bethlehem for instance. Which is more holy ? What about the two tomb locations ?.. Which one is holy and which one no more than dirt ? In any case, dirt is dirt, and stone is stone, there's nothing holy or sacred about them).

"Know ye not that ye are temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you ? If any man defile the temple of God; him shall God destroy; for the TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE" (1 Corinthians 3:16:17).

 

[Alithis]

Your wrong there. The Book of Acts refers specifically to the "laying on of hands".

"Then Peter and John laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:17).

Seriously ! Do you guys even read the Bible before you make these posts ?

yes we lay hands on them ... and then GoD ,not us ,baptized them in the holy SPirit . go study the word baptizo... to soak dip drench .
we are to be Born of WATER and of the Spirit ..both . as paul says -In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead. .. what part of laying hands on a person is related to burial ?

and again he says
Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was.…

again i ask what part of laying hands on to pray relates to burial into christ's death ? and why is it that paul instructs those who had been baptized in water by john to be baptized again into christ and then AFTERWARD lays hands on them for the receiving of the holy ghost ?

-if you're going to tell people to "read the scriptures" ,perhaps it would be wise to read them ALL yourself too hmm ?

you should not discount his instructions simply because you do not yet understand or comprehend the need of them . Jesus did not instruct anything just because it was an empty ritual .. God NEVER does that .