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Featured Who hasnt been baptised?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Goodbook, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    and thinks they are christian?

    Can you truly be a christian without being baptised? It seems to me many people would LIKE to be but they arent baptised for some strange reason. Why not?

    If you havent experienced baptism, what is your reasoning?
     
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  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    I was water baptized about 45 years ago. But I do know that some teach against it. From another forum I used to be a regular on:

    Dunked in the Water - Page 12


    What Grams posted there was pretty much from her Bible Baptist church website. She also started another thread over there called "No Water Today."
    No Water today ! - Page 1
     
  3. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Water baptism is not a “requirement” for salvation since God does the saving, but is something Christians get to do in order to help them.


    I know that I needed everything God could provide to assure me of my conversion, both outwardly and mentally. God wants you to physically feel the experience of what is going on Spiritually.

    You need to add to your conversion a definite time place and physical experience, which God has provided for you. We talk about being “Born again”, which comes from Nicodemus encounter with Christ (John 3 :1-21):


    Being “born again” is what Jesus told Nicodemus he need to do. This requires some thinking, because Jesus does not address the questions or comments that are verbalized, but directs his comments to the persons next step in their personal spiritual development (what is on their heart spiritually). Jesus is not making some general philosophical statement (like Buddha might make) but is always addressing the audience He is talking to. We have to get into the context.

    What did Nicodemus need to do next in his spiritual development?

    What does Nicodemus need to be doing next? (study the Old Testament, become one of the followers of Jesus right then and there, Confess, repent, etc.)

    The first thing Nicodemus might do at least is what he already knows he should do? Is that not where you would start? So what is that?

    Since Nicodemus is still part of the Sanhedrin, he would not have been immersed baptized by John’s baptism. That would have got him thrown out of the Sanhedrin, but being smart Nicodemus would know he should be baptized.

    John’s baptism would have been a hot topic among the religious scholars, yet the answer was obvious and they all know it (remember Jesus using it against them and causing them to quit asking him questions?)

    Jesus is not going to hand out the answer to Nicodemus, since Nicodemus knows the answer, but he will make Nicodemus think about it hard, since it would already be on his mind.



    Christian water baptism as seen in scripture seems to fit the “born again” scenario Christ was talking about since it: Is always adult (there are only two examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do it to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.

    Why not be baptized again (there is no rule against this) to experience all you can from being baptized?

    Yes, Ro. 10 is silent about baptism, but silence is not a proof for anything and baptism was not the topic being discussed, the Jews had to believe first, so baptism would be down the road.

    Is the real problem with humility, since adult water baptism is a humbling act?

    Is the problem with “witnessing” since baptism help other Christians remember what they went through?

    The whole “argument” about the “one” baptism having to be “spiritual baptism” so we do not need to (or even shouldn’t) be water immersed is not supported by scriptural examples, since everyone that was “baptized” by the Holy Spirit seems to have also been water baptized.

    In an effort to emphasis God’s unconditional (salvation), water baptism of believers has been avoided as a subject. People have “argued” that water baptism is a work and since “works” are not required for salvation, water baptism must be avoided. Most “Christian” religious groups “allow” immersion of believers if they want it.

    The problem with this reasoning is adult believer immersion is not something you “do” (work), but is something you allow to be done to you. It is not something “done” as some requirement, but is something you get to do for your sake (to help you) and the sake of others.
     
  4. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Mark 16:16 tells us "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

    It does not say "whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned."

    Should we be baptized? Yes. Must we be baptized to be saved? No.
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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  6. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    Is it the salvation army that actually teach against it or just let other churches minister the baptism?

    I dont really get their reasons...but I have heard they just dont dont do it, or minister the Lords supper. i could be wrong though.
     
  7. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    Hmm well it would be pretty silly to not believe and then get baptised but I suppose that happens. Presumably people ask for baptism cos they have repented and believed.

    Unless churches or ministers dont bother to check and dunk everyone without discernement?
     
  8. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    John the baptist turned the pharisees away because they didnt bring fruits of repentence. They actually wanted to be baptised but he wouldnt let them. He knew they didnt believe so there was no point.
     
  9. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    It is pretty humbling to be baptised. But i dont know what would stop people if they have repented and believed? Phillip said heres water what is forbidding him to be baptised? Acts 8:36
     
  10. Paul Yohannan

    Paul Yohannan Well-Known Member

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    I believe you are correct, unfortunately.
     
  11. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    Well so far nobodys put their hand up to declare they are a christian and are not baptised and dont want to be. In this thread at least.

    I think it would be pretty shameful if they did not want to obey God and be baptised.

    Not that im out to shame ppl or anything. But come on, what would be stopping you?
     
  12. Kiterius

    Kiterius CF's Favorite Member

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    Baptism - something so nice I had it done twice.
     
  13. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    If I knew I could be clean and new having just come out of darkness into the light I would be diving in the nearest pool.
    IMHO. God loves you so much he wants you to experience all of Him.

    Maybe its fear or simply unbelief.
     
  14. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    But that isn't what I said in my post. My point was simply that while we should be baptized it isn't a requirement for salvation. If a dying soldier accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior on the battlefield, Jesus will not turn him away simply because he wasn't baptized. As I said earlier, Scripture tells us that he who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but it does not say that he who believes but is not baptized shall not be saved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  15. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    To echo what Archivist said, Baptism is necessary, but not absolutely necessary. That is, Baptism is what Baptism is, and does what it does according to the word and promise of God. That doesn't mean, however, that God is going to reject a person simply because they weren't baptized.

    As Christians we can point to what has been said on the issue, as found in Scripture and has been believed since the beginning; that God has established certain means by which He accomplishes His saving work for us, by the preaching of the Gospel and the administration of the Sacraments.

    What we can't, or at least shouldn't, say is who is "in" and who is "out", God hasn't revealed that to us. We can point to where God has said He acts, but that doesn't mean He won't act in other ways unrevealed to us. Instead, we should trust in Him to be faithful, true, and just in all things; that He is the One who desires that none should perish, but that all be saved. Our place isn't to judge, our place is to trust in Christ, preach the Gospel, and be the Church.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  16. JCFantasy23

    JCFantasy23 In a Kingdom by the Sea. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    '

    I took forever to be baptized. Wasn't raised in the church but was Christian and close to God as far back as I can remember. Started looking for churches in my thirties, then when I found one starting thinking about baptism. Beautiful experience.
     
  17. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    How do you know...are you a dying soldier? People make up all these hypothetical situations but you know, someone who loves Jesus and walking a new life isnt going to be fighting in a carnal war...and Jesus DID turn Judas away, because Judas chose NOT to be baptised.
     
  18. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    Judas had every opportunity to be baptised but chose not to take it.

    Jesus said not all of you are clean....He knew. I dont think you can fool God really.
     
  19. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    Jesus also said of people who deliberately turned from him like Judas did that is was better a millstone be placed around their neck and they be cast into the bottom of the sea! He obviously knew that they wouldnt rise to the occasion. believers know when they are buried with baptism that they WILL rise to new life again.
     
  20. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Christians don't fight in wars? Tell that to the brave men and women who are currently serving in our military, many of whom are Christians. And don't tell me that soldiers don't come to Jesus after they are badly wounded in battle--that happened to one of my uncles during WWII.

    And do you really think that the reason Judas was not saved was because he chose not to be baptized?

    Scripture makes it very clear: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." That does not say "whoever is not baptized will be condemned."
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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