Who do we support? Trump or Biden

[grasping the after wind]

I don't need to pick because the American people have already chosen Biden, but that would have been my pick too.

We need stable and reasonable people in power, not loose cannons like Trump.[/QUOTE

Are you under the impression that Biden is stable and reasonable? I can't see why you would be.

 

[mindlight]

Whoever is inaugurated on January 20, 2021.

Europeans are no strangers to multiple claimants to thrones, multiple claims to legitimacy and authority. There were once 3 popes on rival papal thrones, and most European powers have had conflicts between rival claimants at one point. The only time that this really happened in the USA was maybe the Civil War when Lincoln claimed authority over the whole of the USA and the Confederate States disagreed over their bit.

I understand that it was only civilians purged in the Pentagon and that the military oath is to the constitution not to the president. So I am not as worried now as I was when I started this thread.

I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

[mindlight]

He filled vacancies caused by retirement or death, as was his constitutional duty as President of the United States.

They are all people who believe in the law, and DON'T believe in legislation from the bench.

They aren't anyone's "buddies" but the United States Constitution.

Seriously, this is our country and it is legally being ran according to our laws.

Stop being overly dramatic

I do confess to being a little dramatic before, as I was truly worried. The stability of the USA is pretty crucial to a lot of things and it looked to me like Trumps actions could actually start a civil war. The friends and allies of the USA want a smooth transition and only its enemies want chaos.

Knowing the military swear an oath to the constitution not the president alleviates a lot of fears.

The constitutional position regarding these elections is clear from the Twelfth Amendment and the evidence of the voting booths. I do accept that the Supreme Court nominees are people of sound character and legal professionals and argued as much in the Kavanaugh disputes. Since there is no case, with sufficient evidence of mass fraud, to warrant a SCOTUS judgment, it is a moot point anyway. The below is what will happen:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States

 

[Goonie]

Trump is currently replacing the Pentagon hierarchies with Yes men and believes he has front loaded the Supreme Court with his pals. He continues to insist the election was fraudulent, despite having no evidence to support that.

Assuming he decides not to leave and the military support him, making it impossible for President Elect Biden to take his place, in the White house January 20th 2021, which "Commander in Chief" should the international community recognise as the legitimate president of the USA?

The military will not support a coup as you describe. What he could be preparing for is republican state legislatures in the battleground states to overrule their elections and award the electors to Trump. A move that would see civil unrest on an unprecedented scale.

 

[mindlight]

The military will not support a coup as you describe. What he could be preparing for is republican state legislatures in the battleground states to overrule their elections and award the electors to Trump. A move that would see civil unrest on an unprecedented scale.

This should not be possible since it must be evidence based and demonstrate that laws have been broken in the achievement of the election result. Despite the best efforts of liars like Roger Stone (Stop the Steal) and Alex Jones (Infowars) that is not going to happen. To be honest my greatest disgust right now rests with the Evangelicals in the USA. They are silent about Trump because they want to see Georgia return two Republican senators. That fear of rocking the boat and earning the disfavour of Trump is leading to the toleration of the lie that there was fraud in this election and this in turn is leading to a deepening of the divide in an already partisan situation. Time for Christians to speak the truth. I believe the Republicans can take Georgias senate seats without Trump.

 

[Goonie]

This should not be possible since it must be evidence based and demonstrate that laws have been broken in the achievement of the election result. Despite the best efforts of liars like Roger Stone (Stop the Steal) and Alex Jones (Infowars) that is not going to happen. To be honest my greatest disgust right now rests with the Evangelicals in the USA. They are silent about Trump because they want to see Georgia return two Republican senators. That fear of rocking the boat and earning the disfavour of Trump is leading to the toleration of the lie that there was fraud in this election and this in turn is leading to a deepening of the divide in an already partisan situation. Time for Christians to speak the truth. I believe the Republicans can take Georgias senate seats without Trump.

Sadly legislatures do not need evidence to pass laws or on this case take over the selection of electors from voters. All it requires is the republicans to have a majority. Where such a move is likely to founder is in regard to democrat governors exercising their veto, it would end in the supreme court.

 

[stevil]

Assuming he decides not to leave and the military support him, making it impossible for President Elect Biden to take his place, in the White house January 20th 2021, which "Commander in Chief" should the international community recognise as the legitimate president of the USA?

Very good question.

On the one hand, the USA presents a very large source of international trade, (exports and imports) and it would be challenging to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of the person in control of USA who could immediately cancel all trade with our country.

On the other hand, we support democracy and the right of the people to vote for their leaders.
I'm pretty sure my country would make public statements in support if democracy, but I doubt we would cut all ties with USA.

If Trump retains power, I would expect things to continue escalating, I expect Trump would look to imprison his political opponents, I expect he would look to imprison the free media.


On another note,
If Biden manages to actually get into office, and if Trump announces he will be campaigning for 2024 (he then becomes a political opponent of the current government) If the Justice Department etc then go after Trump for alleged crimes he has committed while in office or for his doggy tax practices, then would people see that as a current admin going after a political opponent?

 

[Goonie]

Very good question.

On the one hand, the USA presents a very large source of international trade, (exports and imports) and it would be challenging to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of the person in control of USA who could immediately cancel all trade with our country.

On the other hand, we support democracy and the right of the people to vote for their leaders.
I'm pretty sure my country would make public statements in support if democracy, but I doubt we would cut all ties with USA.

If Trump retains power, I would expect things to continue escalating, I expect Trump would look to imprison his political opponents, I expect he would look to imprison the free media.


On another note,
If Biden manages to actually get into office, and if Trump announces he will be campaigning for 2024 (he then becomes a political opponent of the current government) If the Justice Department etc then go after Trump for alleged crimes he has committed while in office or for his doggy tax practices, then would people see that as a current admin going after a political opponent?

Biden([bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] does spellchecker keep correcting it to Boden!) will not look to prosecute as it would just dominate his one term. Trumps legal issues are likely to be with individual states such as New York.

 

[mindlight]

If Biden manages to actually get into office, and if Trump announces he will be campaigning for 2024 (he then becomes a political opponent of the current government) If the Justice Department etc then go after Trump for alleged crimes he has committed while in office or for his doggy tax practices, then would people see that as a current admin going after a political opponent?

Interesting point. This does look like a personal agenda rather than an action for the good of the nation. Can they sue him if he remains the voice of the right? If they do then it makes him look like the classic Revolutionary persecuted by a corrupt Washington establishment and a victim of the "Deep State". It is actually a clever strategy, but very dishonest.

 

[stevil]

Interesting point. This does look like a personal agenda rather than an action for the good of the nation. Can they sue him if he remains the voice of the right? If they do then it makes him look like the classic Revolutionary persecuted by a corrupt Washington establishment and a victim of the "Deep State". It is actually a clever strategy, but very dishonest.

But if they don't do it, if there are no legal consequences for criminal behaviour by a president, then that paves the way for all future presidents to break all the rules.

Obviously Biden needs to keep out of it, other than to appoint an Attorney General.
But the "right" won't care, they (and Foxnews) will blame the Democrats, just like they blame the Democrats for the Russian investigation.