Who did that?

[Lord Emsworth]

What IS the sound of the Breath of God?

.

//

 

[Lord Emsworth]

That would be the expected version, which again shows the novelty / non-humanness of YWHW.

I don't know ...

 

[dlamberth]

It wouldn't have been the sound of G-d's breath - but of Moses'. (Is there a difference?)

No!

.

 

[razeontherock]

So we see Moses truly as a type of Christ, a type of the Incarnation. And by extension, we see the Lord with US, a sense of Holiness throughout humanity ...

 

[dlamberth]

So we see Moses truly as a type of Christ, a type of the Incarnation. And by extension, we see the Lord with US, a sense of Holiness throughout humanity ...

perhaps a sense of activity of God with in each and every human being?

.

 

[razeontherock]

I certainly like to look for that. Some people make it harder to find than others ...

 

[dlamberth]

I certainly like to look for that. Some people make it harder to find than others ...

It's a bit easer when God is ones reality, and everywhere that person looked, there God is.

.

 

[dewaddict84]

Jane got the nitty-gritty of why the individual breaths without any personal training, but the system that she describes boils down to "instinct". And that was developed through the long hard road of evolution. The same sort of instincts that tell us to go make babies and to be nice to one another. There have been attempts to try otherwise, but every attempt to adjust the "breathing" instinct doesn't seem to last too long.

Are you still a Darwinian? Everyone has backed away from that.

I'm still a "Darwinian" the same way I believe that Newton's laws still hold true for the most part. I mean, they fall apart once you get to the atomic level, but that doesn't mean they're completely false. Same with Darwin. Animals evolved into other animals. Darwin was right about that. He didn't know about DNA, and it wasn't as smooth and gradual as his thought, but his premise is still solid.

I don't think there was entropy on creation day. Adam could have lived forever in physical form. Entropy seemed to be introduced when Adam was judged for sin. How is that for a 180? That means with the Lord's return, the effects of the "fall" will be reversed and entropy reversed.

Uh huh. You don't understand entropy. Really, please, just step away from the science. You're using it badly. Someone is going to get hurt.

how is it i'm alive and breathing then if not for G*d's breath of life?

Instincts coming from you genes which came from your parents.

We have answers for this stuff that doesn't involve woo. Really.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Are you still a Darwinian? Everyone has backed away from that.

I nearly missed this gem.

I don't know what alternate bizarro universe you live in, SanFrank, but I hate to break to you that creationism is NOT coming back as a scientific theory.

Darwin's "Origin of Species" may be mostly interesting in terms of the history of science these days, and many parts of his model have long since become outdated (as could be expected, given that we've made some splendid new discoveries and refined our methodology in the meantime).

But evolutionary biology is a thriving scientific discipline that touches upon many, MANY areas of life (vaccination, for example).

Biblical literalism, on the other hand, has been dead for the better part of two hundred years, and not just on account of the maligned Charles Darwin: archaeology, palaeonthology, geology, astronomy, linguistics... you'll be hard-pressed to find a single area that hasn't pretty much discarded biblical literalism on account of scientific discoveries that clearly disprove biblical mythology.
The planet is vastly older than 6,000 or even 10,000 years, there never was a global flood, the existence of different languages has nothing whatsoever to do with mythical tower projects, there were no domesticated camels in the days of Isaac (and no Chaldeans, for that matter), and no traces of the massive exodus of Israelites can be found. Heck, even the speed of light messes up the notion of a young earth.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Are you still a Darwinian? Everyone has backed away from that.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Would you explain further?

Death may involve entropy, since life processes stop and the body disintegrates, but entropy is not the cause of death. How long we live is based for the most part on our DNA, and the DNA we have comes from natural selection. (Yes, I'm a "Darwinian" in that I regard our development through natural selection as a fact.)

We have most likely had roughly the same potential lifespans for the past several thousand years, although in past times lifespans were, on average, shorter due to more challenging living conditions. There's no evidence that people had those exaggeratedly long lifespans claimed in Genesis. That's just an origins myth.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[razeontherock]

no Chaldeans, for that matter), and no traces of the massive exodus of Israelites can be found.

That's funny because you can visit Abe's original Chaldean home and the marker where Israel crossed was found, along with tell-tale signs of Exodus stories including the rock flowing with water and the mountain top that burned.

 

[dewaddict84]

with tell-tale signs of Exodus stories including the rock flowing with water and the mountain top that burned.

Sauce and sauce, please. Because I really don't know what you're talking about.

Rock flowing with water... Like a cobblestone river? A spring in a mountain?
Burned mountain.... I remember something about a burning bush. Did it spread? Are wildfires now divine providence?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

That's funny because you can visit Abe's original Chaldean home and the marker where Israel crossed was found, along with tell-tale signs of Exodus stories including the rock flowing with water and the mountain top that burned.

You *do* know that people retroactively assign place myths to extraordinary geological and/or topographical features, don't you?
You can also find tombs of Moses and Jesus (!) located in Kashmir.

That doesn't really count as archaeological evidence.

I did confuse some of the details, though:

"It is generally recognised by scholars that there is nothing in the Genesis stories that can be related to the history of Canaan of the early 2nd millennium: none of the kings mentioned is known, Abimelech could not be a Philistine (they did not arrive till centuries later), Ur could not become known as "Ur of the Chaldeans" until the early 1st millennium, and Laban could not have been an Aramean, as the Arameans did not become an identifiable political entity until the 12th century. Joseph Blenkinsopp, Emeritus Professor of Biblical Studies at the University of Notre Dame, notes that the past four or five decades have seen a growing consensus that the Genesis narrative of Abraham originated from literary circles of the 6th and 5th centuries BCE as a mirror of the situation facing the Jewish community under the Babylonian and early Persian empires. Blenkinsopp describes two conclusions about Abraham that are widely held in biblical scholarship: the first is that, except in the triad "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob," he is not clearly and unambiguously attested in the Bible earlier than the Babylonian exile (he does not, for example, appear in prophetic texts earlier than that time); the second is that he became, in the Persian period, a model for those who would return from Babylon to Judah. Once considered a contemporary of Hammurabi, king of Babylonia, Abraham probably lived in the period between 2000 and 1500 BC. Abraham was the son of Terah and was born in the city of Ur where he married Sarah. They moved to Haran and then on to Canaan where they lived as nomads. Finally famine led him to Egypt, but he was driven out and moved again the Canaan. He continued life as a nomad. He was burried beside his wife Sarah in the Cave of Machpelah, in what is now Hebron, Jordan. Beyond this the Abraham story (and those of Isaac and Jacob/Israel) served a theological purpose following the destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple and the Davidic kingship: despite the loss of these things, Yahweh's dealings with the ancestors provided a historical foundation on which hope for the future could be built. There is basic agreement that his connection with Haran, Shechem and Bethel is secondary and originated when he became identified as the father of Jacob and ancestor of the northern tribes; his association with Mamre and Hebron, on the other hand (in the south, in the territory of Jerusalem and Judah), suggest that this region was the original home of his cult." (source)

As for the Exodus:
"The archaeological evidence of the largely indigenous origins of Israel is "overwhelming," and leaves "no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness."[21] For this reason, most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit."[21] A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[18] and it has become increasingly clear that Iron Age Israel - the kingdoms of Judah and Israel - has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[22][23] the culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[24]" (source)