Who Changed Shabbat?

[BobRyan]

The day of the new moon was a day of rest for Israel the same as the Sabbath.

But it was not the first day or the 7th day of the week -- no Bible text says that the day of the new moon is "the first day of the week" or any such thing regarding "the week". That fact - does not change.

The new moon day was a rest day then you worked six days until the next Sabbath day.

No Bible text says that -- as we both know.

And this is the whole point on that topic - saying things "as if" it were a Bible text when in fact you are merely "quoting you" engaged in inference and a bit of extreme extrapolation with many leaps of logic.

Fine you have free will - and can choose to do it.

But how is that in any way remotely "compelling" for the rest of us??

Thankfully the "Baptist Confession of faith" does not make that mistake when it comes to the 7 day week, nor does the "Westminster Confession of faith" make that mistake - nor do Jews make that mistake when it comes to the 7 day week... in fact it is pretty hard to find a tiny little group that would make such a mistake.

 

[klutedavid]

But it was not the first day or the 7th day of the week -- no Bible text says that the day of the new moon is "the first day of the week" or any such thing regarding "the week". That fact - does not change.




No Bible text says that -- as we both know.

And this is the whole point on that topic - saying things "as if" it were a Bible text when in fact you are merely "quoting you" engaged in inference and a bit of extreme extrapolation with many leaps of logic.

Fine you have free will - and can choose to do it.

But how is that in any way remotely "compelling" for the rest of us??

Thankfully the "Baptist Confession of faith" does not make that mistake when it comes to the 7 day week, nor does the "Westminster Confession of faith" make that mistake - nor do Jews make that mistake when it comes to the 7 day week... in fact it is pretty hard to find a tiny little group that would make such a mistake.

Do you work on the day of the new moon?

 

[SAAN]

Brother, only in Eden does the Sabbath begin at sunrise on the seventh day of the week, anywhere else, as in Israel, the Sabbath begins sometime on the Friday before the seventh local day to remember the Sabbath in the time zone of Eden. We need Friday and Saturday to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy around the world. Israel is right to begin the Sabbath 10 hours before its local seventh day by direct instructions from God. Israel is our example that the Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week as it was in Eden because what God called the Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week, but more specifically the seventh day of the week in the time zone of Eden around the world.

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I have seen some debates of the Sabbath begins Saturday at sunrise since it says to remember the Sabbath DAY and made no mention of the night vs the typical Sabbath begins right after Friday and sunset.

 

[HARK!]

I have seen some debates of the Sabbath begins Saturday at sunrise since it says to remember the Sabbath DAY and made no mention of the night vs the typical Sabbath begins right after Friday and sunset.

In the first day of creation, which came first, darkness, or light?

 

[BobRyan]

I have seen some debates of the Sabbath begins Saturday at sunrise since it says to remember the Sabbath DAY and made no mention of the night vs the typical Sabbath begins right after Friday and sunset.

In the Bible God says "from evening to evening you shall celebrate the Sabbath" in Lev 23.

In Genesis 1 all the days are "evening and morning - were the nth day"

in Christ,

Bob

 

[HARK!]

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty.

1 Samuel 20:34
Then Jonathan arose from the table in fierce anger, and did not eat food on the second day of the new moon.

Do you understand that these verses are referring to Yom Teruah?

Vayikra (Leviticus) 23:23-25 YHWH said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: 'On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with shofar blasts. Do no regular work, but present an offering made to YHWH by fire.

Bamidbar (Numbers) 29:1 "'On the first day of the seventh month hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. It is a day for you to sound the shofarot.

 

[guevaraj]

I have seen some debates of the Sabbath begins Saturday at sunrise since it says to remember the Sabbath DAY and made no mention of the night vs the typical Sabbath begins right after Friday and sunset.

In the first day of creation, which came first, darkness, or light?

In the Bible God says "from evening to evening you shall celebrate the Sabbath" in Lev 23. In Genesis 1 all the days are "evening and morning - were the nth day" in Christ, Bob

Brothers, the darkness before the first light is before the week of creation, the light comes first then darkness the first day of creation. The first "evening" arrives in the middle of the first day. In all the days of creation, God creates from the morning until the evening, the first half of the first day that God called "day" and has nothing to report during the evening until the morning second half of the first day that God called "night", because God stopped creating during the night hours every day of the creation week.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

the light comes first then darkness the first day of creation.

All the days in Genesis 1 are in the form "Evening and morning were the nth day". I don't see any way to avoid that detail in the text.

 

[guevaraj]

All the days in Genesis 1 are in the form "Evening and morning were the nth day". I don't see any way to avoid that detail in the text.

Brother, from the evening until the morning in Genesis, it is only half a Sabbath in Israel declared from the evening until the following evening, with a morning not mentioned between the two evenings. What ends the first day below is the night, the first half of a Sabbath in Israel because the second half of a Sabbath in Israel from the morning until the evening period of light takes place before the night in Genesis, making the first day from the first light to light again in the morning or from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

Brother, from the evening until the morning in Genesis, it is only half a Sabbath

On the contrary the creation account is 7 days -- clearly 7 full days as Genesis 1-2.

God Himself summarized it as follows --
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It was a full 7 day week... the same as we experience.


in Israel declared from the evening until the following evening, which always has a morning (day time) in between.

The period of night followed by the period of day - and ending with the start of the next period of night.

God is not "commanding the day to follow the night" in the Sabbath commandment - rather he is commanding the time of observance.

 

[HARK!]

Brothers, the darkness before the first light is before the week of creation,

It was dark on the eve of the light. Remember this

the light comes first then darkness the first day of creation.

(CLV) Gn 1:1
In a beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

Notice Earth is created.

(CLV) Gn 1:2
As for the earth, it came to be a chaos and vacant, and darkness was over the surface of the abyss. And the spirit of Elohim was vibrating over the surface of the waters.

Notice that it was dark.

(CLV) Gn 1:3
And Elohim said: Let light come to be! And light came to be.

Notice that the Earth existed before light.

The first "evening" arrives in the middle of the first day.

Remember this word.


(CLV) Gn 1:5
And Elohim called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And evening came to be, and morning came to be: day one.

Came to be? Wait, in verse three, I thought light came out of darkness. How did "evening come to be?"

Here is the Hebrew word for darkness: וְלַחֹשֶׁךְ
Here is the Hebrew word for for evening: עֶרֶב

How exactly do we understand the word evening?

eve·ning
/ˈēvniNG/
noun

1. the period of time at the end of the day

The evening falls at the end of a day; and is the eve of the next day.

In all the days of creation, God creates from the morning until the evening

OK I haven't looked at it that carefully; but I might go along with that.

the first half of the first day that God called "day"

If light was created on day one; and day one was day, because there was light; and the Earth was dark before light was created in day one; then on what day was Earth created? Your postulate just doesn't add up.

and has nothing to report during the evening until the morning second half of the first day that God called "nigh

He didn't call it night. He called it evening; remember?

So you're saying that because YHWH had nothing to report; that time sttod still? I don't understand. How is the absence of a report, relevant?

He did report that the Earth existed before light; so whatever you come up with is probably irrelevant.

because God stopped creating during the night hours every day of the creation week.

Absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of absence. Did you actually see YHWH resting in the evenings? What time is his bedtime?

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Shalom Brother.

 

[guevaraj]

God is not "commanding the day to follow the night" in the Sabbath commandment - rather he is commanding the time of observance.

Brother, what you don't understand is that the Sabbath is not a day of the week, separated is it from the week. What God called a Sabbath is the seventh day of the week in the time zone of Eden for everyone around the world. Remembered differently is the Sabbath by everyone around the world, giving the local distance to Eden, where God taught us to count the days to remember the Sabbath and Eden falls on the International Date Line (IDL). The Sabbath is more complex than we think, we never returned to Genesis to take the next step after learning that evening means sunset to realize that the first Sabbath was from morning to morning and not as Israel remembers it correctly from evening to evening, because the Sabbath is not a day of the week other than in Eden.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

God Himself summarized it as follows --
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Brother, what you don't understand is that the Sabbath is not a day of the week,

Well clearly we differ on how that text reads.

 

[guevaraj]

Notice that the Earth existed before light.

Brother, yes, created were the heavens and the earth before the week of creation. Everything before the first light of the first day was before the week of creation, an unspecified time before the creation week was the earth created.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Well clearly we differ on how that text reads.

Brother, the Sabbath is the seventh day in Eden, but not in Israel, where it occupies part of the sixth day and part of the seventh day as defined in Genesis. The first day is from the first light to light again in the morning or from morning to morning until the first Sabbath from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

God Himself summarized it as follows --
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Brother, what you don't understand is that the Sabbath is not a day of the week,

Well clearly we differ on how that text reads.

Brother, the Sabbath is the seventh day in Eden, but not in Israel,

So then the case that God is making Exodus 20 above for Israel is "in error"???

 

[guevaraj]

So then the case that God is making Exodus 20 above for Israel is "in error"???

Brother, the instructions to Israel are correct, which show that the Sabbath is not a day of the week, when it occupies part of the sixth day and part of the seventh day as defined in Genesis.

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Morning is until noon after noon is evening.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

​

that is specifically for Yom Kippur

 

[guevaraj]

Morning is until noon after noon is evening.

that is specifically for Yom Kippur

Brothers, the Scriptures define their own terms, the following two passages are sufficient to reveal the meaning of the two words: evening and morning.

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

The above passage shows a Sabbath in Israel consists of the two half periods named “night” and “day” below and contained above within the confined period from evening to evening. When chained with the following passage, the meaning of the two words as instance transitions of the periods named by God is clear. The word evening is the instance transition from day to night and the word morning is the instance transition from night to day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

The words "day" and "night" name the two half periods of the first day. The words "evening" and "morning" are used to transition between the previous half periods of the first day. Just as evening to evening confine a Sabbath in Israel, from morning to morning confine a Sabbath in Eden. Summary statements follow:

• the half first day God called day: <morning>day<evening>
• the half first day God called night: <evening>night<morning>
• the Sabbath in Israel: <evening>night<morning>day<evening>
• the Sabbath in Eden: <morning>day<evening>night<morning>

Moving from the translated word above to their meaning based on the sun below.

1. morning means sunrise
2. evening means sunset
3. from sunrise to sunset is the period God called "day"
4. from sunset to sunrise is the period God called "night"
5. from sunset to sunset is the period to remember the Sabbath in Israel
6. from sunrise to sunrise is the period of the first Sabbath in Eden

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge