Who Changed Shabbat?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Did you see the name of The Messiah or Christ mentioned in the commandments...most of the commandments begins with..."You"...ie...You shall no other gods, You shall not etc...is telling the people to do all those commands...

Yes, Moses wrote about Him in other scripture but Not the 10

Is Yeshua not God?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Why do you think the Pharisees and teacher of the law missed to recognize the Messiah when He appeared since they are called "teachers" of the law,....But John the Baptist did?

Because they thought He would be a military leader among other things.

 

[pasifika]

Is Yeshua not God?

Again, why did the people of Israel reject their God? Since they have the law with them for so many generations....

I guess what I am trying to put across to you, is that knowing Christ does not come through the law....but by wisdom and understanding of Him, through the Spirit and it's a gift from God just like Prophets (OT) and Apostles (NT)...
Ephesians 2:20..."built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone...

 

[pasifika]

Because they thought He would be a military leader among other things.

Is that what the law said of Him?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Again, why did the people of Israel reject their God? Since they have the law with them for so many generations....

Some did, others did not

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Is that what the law said of Him?

Partly yes.

 

[pasifika]

Some did, others did not

the Pharisees or scribes did reject Him But those whom God chose to know His Son, ie, poor, prostitute, tax collectors, murder etc accept Him....

just like the Gentiles they did not have the law, yet God gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit...Acts 10:44-46...

 

[pasifika]

Partly yes.

Okay, any scriptures for that? I mean what law it says the Messiah would be a military leader.....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

the Pharisees or scribes did reject Him But those whom God chose to know His Son, ie, poor, prostitute, tax collectors, murder etc accept Him....

just like the Gentiles they did not have the law, yet God gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit...Acts 10:44-46...

No, not all rejected Him. Nakdimon and Yosef did not as well as likely others.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Okay, any scriptures for that? I mean what law it says the Messiah would be a military leader.....

That is why they thought Bar Kokhba was the messiah, until he was killed. The Torah contains several references to the end of days (acharit haYamim), which is the time of the Messiah. Messiah in Hebrew means the anointed one...a King, a leader like David. Descriptions are in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea and others.
Shabbat Shalom!

 

[pasifika]

No, not all rejected Him. Nakdimon and Yosef did not as well as likely others.

Yes, not all of the Pharisees reject Jesus I should say...But the majority of them, given that they have the knowledge of the Law they are called "teacher" ..Nicodemus has to humble himself to come and ask Jesus questions on some things that he didn't understood at the time...

The interesting thing in the story of Nicodemus in John 3...is that Nicodemus and others recognize Jesus as a Teacher whose come from God...Not just because of His teaching But the signs which is the works that Jesus was doing...ie healing the sick, open the eyes of blind, cure leprosy, raise the dead, feeding thousands with 5 fish and 2 loaves etc...

So, maybe those who promote the written law, must see that they be qualify by God by showing some of the works similar to what Jesus had done in helping the people...

John 3:10..."You are Israels teacher," said Jesus, "and you do not understand these things?

The point is, is not about knowledge of the Law, that makes you righteous but is all about your knowledge of Christ...and that knowledge of Christ is from the Holy Spirit, and is a gift.. and God can give to anyone He chooses....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes, not all of the Pharisees reject Jesus I should say...But the majority of them, given that they have the knowledge of the Law they are called "teacher" ..Nicodemus has to humble himself to come and ask Jesus questions on some things that he didn't understood at the time...

The interesting thing in the story of Nicodemus in John 3...is that Nicodemus and others recognize Jesus as a Teacher whose come from God...Not just because of His teaching But the signs which is the works that Jesus was doing...ie healing the sick, open the eyes of blind, cure leprosy, raise the dead, feeding thousands with 5 fish and 2 loaves etc...

John 3:10..."You are Israels teacher," said Jesus, "and you do not understand these things?

The point is, is not about knowledge of the Law, that makes you righteous but is all about your knowledge of Christ...and that knowledge of Christ is from the Holy Spirit, and is a gift.. and God can give to anyone He chooses....

Nakdimon actually did know which is why Yeshua was surprised he did not understand. He was a Pharisee so he did know and teach it. He just did not understand how Yeshua explained it. What Yeshua said is NOT what 99% of Christians (especially protestants) think He meant. Why do you act as if it is either law or grace with no law...you make them mutually exclusive when they are not. You force Jesus into Christianity and take Yeshua out of Judaism...

Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

Do you understand?
Shabbat Shalom!

 

[pasifika]

Nakdimon actually did know which is why Yeshua was surprised he did not understand. He was a Pharisee so he did know and teach it. He just did not understand how Yeshua explained it. What Yeshua said is NOT what 99% of Christians (especially protestants) think He meant. Why do you act as if it is either law or grace with no law...you make them mutually exclusive when they are not. You force Jesus into Christianity and take Yeshua out of Judaism...

Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

Do you understand?
Shabbat Shalom!

Yes, you raise a good point here...Nicodemus know and teach the law But He did Not understood how is the law should be practised....which is justice, mercy and Faithfulness. ...
And that is what Jesus and the apostles is teaching in the church...is be just, mercy and faithfulness and all are shown by your actions which is Love...

Jesus, was showing the Jews what a real Jews should live, NOT by what they say but their actions showing they are the people of God...

So their (Pharisees ) actions is far from what they teach....they show they don't understand what they actually teach...that why Jesus called them "Hypocrites"....


Everyone whose born as human (Jews, gentiles etc) has God's law in them (mind)...but not all humans show by their actions of that law in their minds....

 

[Dkh587]

Everyone whose born as human (Jews, gentiles etc) has God's law in them (mind)...but not all humans show by their actions of that law in their minds....

this is not true.

Romans 7:7 ESV

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Paul didn’t know about coveting except when he learned it through the law - he was not born with it in his mind, nor is/was anybody else.

Paul was not aware of coveting until He read it in the Law of God.

 

[pasifika]

this is not true.

Romans 7:7 ESV


Paul didn’t know about coveting except when he learned it through the law - he was not born with it in his mind, nor is/was anybody else.

Paul was not aware of coveting until He read it in the Law of God.

Paul knew coveting is wrong, but he didn't know it was actually the work of "Sin" in him that causes him to do those bad things....and the law is the way God revealed the sin that lives in people....

Romans 7:7...."I would not have known what sin was had it not by the law...

But the word sin is Not written in the law...but Paul was saying is when we break the commandments ie coveting, stealing, it revealed the sin that lIves in us....

Romans 7:14-25...Paul explains more of what he meant..

Romans 7:14..the law is spiritual but I am unspiritual, sold as slave to sin,...what i want to do I don't do it...

We want to do good (that is our mind saying it)...but I don't do it ( that is our actions or nature from our hearts (sinful hearts)....

mind=God's law (Romans 7:23,25)
Heart or Nature= Law (law that reveal sin...Romans7:7-13)...Law Sin and Death...

 

[Dkh587]

Paul knew coveting is wrong, but he didn't know it was actually the work of "Sin" in him that causes him to do those bad things....and the law is the way God revealed the sin that lives in people....

Romans 7:7...."I would not have known what sin was had it not by the law...

But the word sin is Not written in the law...but Paul was saying is when we break the commandments ie coveting, stealing, it revealed the sin that lIves in us....

Romans 7:14-25...Paul explains more of what he meant..

Romans 7:14..the law is spiritual but I am unspiritual, sold as slave to sin,...what i want to do I don't do it...

We want to do good (that is our mind saying it)...but I don't do it ( that is our actions or nature from our hearts (sinful hearts)....

mind=God's law (Romans 7:23,25)
Heart or Nature= Law (law that reveal sin...Romans7:7-13)...Law Sin and Death...

The point is, God’s law was not on his mind. If it was, he would have known what coveting was, and that it was a sin. You have to read the law of God to know what the law of God says. Nobody is born with a knowledge of it - it needs to be learned.

 

[pasifika]

The point is, God’s law was not on his mind. If it was, he would have known what coveting was, and that it was a sin. You have to read the law of God to know what the law of God says. Nobody is born with a knowledge of it - it needs to be learned.

Paul doesn’t know coveting was a sin....but he knows coveting was a wrong thing to do...His mind and conscience are witness of it....

Is like stealing, or murder, lying...people without the written law the Gentiles knows they are not good things to do...what they don't know it those things are called "Sins" from the work of sin in us...

God want to show the real enemy which what makes His people whom He created to disobey Him...

Romans 2:14...indeed when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are law for themselves, eventhough they do not have the law...
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts....

James 4:17...If anyone then knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.....

 

[pinacled]

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

Shabbat has never changed.
Just as the Yom of circumcision has never changed.

Blessings Always

 

[guevaraj]

God made a certain day of rest for His people instead of the 7th day....that day is called "Today"..Hebrews 4

Brother, happy Sabbath! The “rest” promised is when made "perfect" are we “together” at the return of Jesus, as is clear in the fifth passage in red below in the letter to the Hebrews.

therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. (Hebrews 4:1 NIV)​

The promise to enter His rest remains as long as we are not found to have fallen short of it before Jesus returns.

There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; (Hebrews 4:9 NIV)​

The day will come when we will rest from our effort, to persevere to do the will of God in a world that opposes our effort to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:11 NIV)​

We are making an effort to enter that rest, the effort of obedience to the ten commandments of Jesus.

you need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. (Hebrews 10:36 NIV)​

When we have done the will of God throughout our lives persevering over sin, we will receive what God has “promised” when Jesus returns for all of us “together”, to take us to the rooms that He told us He would prepare in His father’s house.

These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. (Hebrews 11:39-40 NIV)​

The promised “rest” takes place after the dead rise, and when "we who are alive” are changed “in the twinkling of an eye”; therefore, what done is “today” is the decision to obey at least the ten commandments written by the finger of Jesus before His incarnation, so that we may show our reciprocal love for our Redeemer who gave His life for us.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)​

Jesus revealed that the ten commandments are His own commandments when He tells us that the voice of the Father had not been heard nor had His form been seen. Everyone had learned of the voice of God heard on the mountain and that Moses saw the form of the finger writing the ten commandments. Jesus revealed in that statement that He is the one they heard on the mountain and Moses saw the form of His finger writing His own ten commandments.

The 7th day Sabbath is the Sabbath of the Lord...as you've said is the sign between God and Israel...and that sign is Jesus Christ who is an Israelite and is God in the flesh...

The Sabbath is the “sign” of our obedience to Jesus' ten commandments that asks us in the fourth to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)​

This is the most expensive of the ten commandments given by Jesus to obey in a world that will force you to give up the job you prefer due to you wanting to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. We are “part” of “all Israel” and we are no longer Gentiles who have “come in” to the “part” of Israel that accepted Jesus in Romans 11:25-31 NIV. In the following passage ask yourself: when did the Lord “bless” the Sabbath and make it “holy”? He “blessed” and made “holy” the Sabbath when He rested on the seventh day of creation week, blessing that day in the Eden time zone and making it holy. A cycle of the week maintained by God's people from the beginning. Through the remnant, obedient to God, the weekly cycle spread throughout the world; that by obeying the Sabbath, until this day the site of Eden preserved is in our origin, where God taught us to count the days to remember the Sabbath rest. The Sabbath gives us the site of the true International Date Line (IDL), near the politically irregular line of nearby Islands, which change sides to favor trade with their neighbors.

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Cribstyl]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The “rest” promised is when made "perfect" are we “together” at the return of Jesus, as is clear in the fifth passage in red below in the letter to the Hebrews.

therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. (Hebrews 4:1 NIV)​

The promise to enter His rest remains as long as we are not found to have fallen short of it before Jesus returns.

There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; (Hebrews 4:9 NIV)​

The day will come when we will rest from our effort, to persevere to do the will of God in a world that opposes our effort to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:11 NIV)​

We are making an effort to enter that rest, the effort of obedience to the ten commandments of Jesus.

you need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. (Hebrews 10:36 NIV)​

When we have done the will of God throughout our lives persevering over sin, we will receive what God has “promised” when Jesus returns for all of us “together”, to take us to the rooms that He told us He would prepare in His father’s house.

These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. (Hebrews 11:39-40 NIV)​

Respectfully sir,
you started out with Heb 4 but your commentary overtook what the scriptures are saying. You're talking about obedience to the 10 commandments.
Heb 4:1¶Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
(The scriptures is talking about a promise of entering God's rest, but you and SDA are talking about sabbath-keeping and the ten.com remains.)

Heb 4:2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
(I would bet we don't agree on what the gospel is, and what we have to believe)
Heb 4:3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

The promised “rest” takes place after the dead rise, and when "we who are alive” are changed “in the twinkling of an eye”; therefore, what done is “today” is the decision to obey at least the ten commandments written by the finger of Jesus before His incarnation, so that we may show our reciprocal love for our Redeemer who gave His life for us.

According to Heb 4:3 and 4 says: We which believes enter His rest, which was announced at the seventh day of creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)​

Jesus revealed that the ten commandments are His own commandments when He tells us that the voice of the Father had not been heard nor had His form been seen. Everyone had learned of the voice of God heard on the mountain and that Moses saw the form of the finger writing the ten commandments. Jesus revealed in that statement that He is the one they heard on the mountain and Moses saw the form of His finger writing His own ten commandments.

The Sabbath is the “sign” of our obedience to Jesus' ten commandments that asks us in the fourth to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)​

Obviously you have more to say than the scriptures that you string together.

This is the most expensive of the ten commandments given by Jesus to obey in a world that will force you to give up the job you prefer due to you wanting to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. We are “part” of “all Israel” and we are no longer Gentiles who have “come in” to the “part” of Israel that accepted Jesus in Romans 11:25-31 NIV. In the following passage ask yourself: when did the Lord “bless” the Sabbath and make it “holy”? He “blessed” and made “holy” the Sabbath when He rested on the seventh day of creation week, blessing that day in the Eden time zone and making it holy. A cycle of the week maintained by God's people from the beginning. Through the remnant, obedient to God, the weekly cycle spread throughout the world; that by obeying the Sabbath, until this day the site of Eden preserved is in our origin, where God taught us to count the days to remember the Sabbath rest. The Sabbath gives us the site of the true International Date Line (IDL), near the politically irregular line of nearby Islands, which change sides to favor trade with their neighbors.

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Jesus said no such thing. You're not teaching God's word, you're exposing how SDA make up doctrine.