WHO CAUSED THE LORD'S DEATH?

[hhodgson]

Romans 7:20: "Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

As above doesn't the power called sin as stated in the above verse dwell in people and make them commit acts of sins?

Galatians 3:22: "But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe."
Now, as above did humans choose to be brought under the power called sin? Wasn't it the scriptures which refers to God's decree bring all under the control of the power called sin?

Absolutely not, committed acts of sin is done by "choice."

 

[hhodgson]

How can we blame someone for God's gift of love?

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Romans 5
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

John 10
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep...

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Nice post, and... nice song. Welcome to Word of Faith.

 

[now faith]

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

So do you mean to say that simply because Jesus is God, He doesn't submit to the Father to do the Father's will & God's plan?

1 Corinthians 15:28:"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Are you denying the subjection of Jesus to the Father simply because Jesus is God?

The subjection ?

John 14: 6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

[Staff edit].

 

[Si_monfaith]

Absolutely not, committed acts of sin is done by "choice."

View attachment 245893​

Do you understand the difference between the power called sin and acts of sin?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Excellent post and thank you for not omitting the.... "the foreknowledge of God" which some, but (not all) Reformed Calvinist tend to do.

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If God knew for certain beforehand that Herod, Pilate etc would kill the Son, could they have the possibility of not killing the Son?

If you say they would have abstained from killing the Lord, then your concept of God's foreknowledge would be rendered meaningless, right?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Adam and Eve , new they had sinned and were ashamed.
God said ye will surely die.
They died not instantly but in time.
God tore the skins of animals and covered their shame.
This was the first death to enter the world, it took innocent Blood to cover their sin.
Life is in the Blood, as time moved on man had to sacarfice animals for sin.
They had to be perfect without blemish.
The blood of a lamb was posted on the door of the children of promise ,when God sent his Angel to kill the first born.
On the top or mantle and on the sides ,this was a sign of Christ.
The Old Testament is all about Jesus, not about who killed him.
It took God to bring sinless prefection to mankind.
Through Him those who believe are sinless in God's eyes forever.
Christ was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.
No man could kill him, no devil could kill him, Christ gave his life so we that believe could have life abundant, without death He'll and the grave.
I would never think any man could kill God, what He Gave He Gave of His own Free Will.
It dishonors the greatest gift to mankind, to y think msn had anything to do with the atonement.

John 1: 29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 10: 17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

By confusing between the primary & secondary causes of Lord's death, isn't the false theory of sovereignty of the human will in believing Jesus as Savior propagated?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Yes ,because Christ is God, along with The Holy Spirit.
To presume anything else ,would be separating the one God.
If God had predetermined Him then He decided Himself not By order.
We are made in the image of God Spirit, Soul, and ,Body.
This is impossible for us until we die.
This is why Christ died as a man,yet was resurrected back to God.
He could not die as God, He gave up his mortal being for us.
He became a mortal being for us.
Only God could keep his word yet redeem mankind by his Death.
The penalty for Sin is Death.
Only God's sinless prefection could pay this price.

Hebrews 2: 6. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7. Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8. Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Do you think that the concept of trinity which is the existence of three persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit means separating the one God?

 

[Si_monfaith]

How can we blame someone for God's gift of love?

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Romans 5
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

John 10
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep...

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Does the topic blame anyone?

Shouldn't the primary and secondary causes of Lord's death be identified from the scriptures?

If it isn't identified, won't the false theory of the sovereignty of the human will in crucifying the Lord be believed & propagated?

 

[Si_monfaith]

What difference does it make?

What are you going to do with the answer?

Are you going to take out vengeance on whoever can be blamed?

Are you really trying to score a bank shot in the free will debate?

You started this discussion in the WoF area...what's the connection you're trying to make?

Doesn't it make a difference in helping to know that the human will isn't sovereign or free to overrule God's plan and that God is in control and so we have the best hope in God?

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON
This thread has had a clean.​

May I remind you to be courteous and respectful in all your posts,
avoiding flaming and goading one another.
Also, please remember that teaching or debating by members who don't identify as Word of Faith believers is not allowed in this forum.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[hhodgson]

Do you understand the difference between the power called sin and acts of sin?

I would rather share the understanding of the Gospel of Christ, or the grace of God, it’ll release the power of God into your life and free you from the bondage of sin. Besides, because of God's grace... the power called sin and the acts of sin (no longer) have dominion over us as believers (Romans 6:14).

So.... What's more important... the "understanding" of the power called sin, or the understanding of God's grace that destroys and frees us from the power called sin?

Are you aware that many of your "one-liner" posts are not making much sense in any of our discussions? I am not the only one that discerns this. Your profile shows you embrace Word of Faith but are you a reformed Calvinist hiding under our WOF logo? Were all wondering as we continue to get more, and more... MOD HAT ON thread cleaning.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I would rather share the understanding of the Gospel of Christ, or the grace of God, it’ll release the power of God into your life and free you from the bondage of sin. Besides, because of God's grace... the power called sin and the acts of sin (no longer) have dominion over us as believers (Romans 6:14).

So.... What's more important... the "understanding" of the power called sin, or the understanding of God's grace that destroys and frees us from the power called sin?

Are you aware that many of your "one-liner" posts are not making much sense in any of our discussions? I am not the only one that discerns this. Your profile shows you embrace Word of Faith but are you a reformed Calvinist hiding under our WOF logo? Were all wondering as we continue to get more, and more... MOD HAT ON thread cleaning.

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You had stated, "Absolutely not, committed acts of sin is done by "choice."". Were you then sharing the gospel of Christ or the grace of God? Now, doesn't Romans 7:17 & 20 say "not me but sin did the transgression"? Are you ignoring the "not me"?

Isn't there a difference between saying, "confessing I am a sinner" and "knowing the difference between power called sin and acts of sin"?

Rather than digress into accusations which makes no sense, why not answer to the point?

 

[now faith]

I would rather share the understanding of the Gospel of Christ, or the grace of God, it’ll release the power of God into your life and free you from the bondage of sin. Besides, because of God's grace... the power called sin and the acts of sin (no longer) have dominion over us as believers (Romans 6:14).

So.... What's more important... the "understanding" of the power called sin, or the understanding of God's grace that destroys and frees us from the power called sin?

Are you aware that many of your "one-liner" posts are not making much sense in any of our discussions? I am not the only one that discerns this. Your profile shows you embrace Word of Faith but are you a reformed Calvinist hiding under our WOF logo? Were all wondering as we continue to get more, and more... MOD HAT ON thread cleaning.

View attachment 245970​

Thankyou

 

[Si_monfaith]

You had stated, "Absolutely not, committed acts of sin is done by "choice."". Were you then sharing the gospel of Christ or the grace of God? Now, doesn't Romans 7:17 & 20 say "not me but sin did the transgression"? Are you ignoring the "not me"?

Isn't there a difference between saying, "confessing I am a sinner" and "knowing the difference between power called sin and acts of sin"?

Rather than digress into accusations which makes no sense, why not answer to the point?

Was there a reply to this excellent query post?

 

[hhodgson]

You had stated, "Absolutely not, committed acts of sin is done by "choice."". Were you then sharing the gospel of Christ or the grace of God? Now, doesn't Romans 7:17 & 20 say "not me but sin did the transgression"? Are you ignoring the "not me"?

Isn't there a difference between saying, "confessing I am a sinner" and "knowing the difference between power called sin and acts of sin"?

Rather than digress into accusations which makes no sense, why not answer to the point?

Who accused who? We can't respond to your point since your points don't make any sense. Would you please respond to my question here....

Are you aware that many of your "one-liner" posts are not making much sense in any of our discussions? I am not the only one that discerns this. Your profile shows you embrace Word of Faith but are you a reformed Calvinist hiding under our WOF logo shield? Were all wondering as we continue to get more, and more... "MOD HAT" ON thread cleaning.
​

Simple question! What beliefs makes you Word of Faith?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Who accused who? We can't respond to your point since your points don't make any sense. Would you please respond to my question here....

Are you aware that many of your "one-liner" posts are not making much sense in any of our discussions? I am not the only one that discerns this. Your profile shows you embrace Word of Faith but are you a reformed Calvinist hiding under our WOF logo shield? Were all wondering as we continue to get more, and more... "MOD HAT" ON thread cleaning.
​

Simple question! What beliefs makes you Word of Faith?

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Do you believe word of faith is consistent with God's word?

If so, why do you hesitate and appear to evade from seeing the truths in God's word?

Have you closed your mind to admit the clear truths in God's word?

Can you meditate God's word with a closed mind?

 

[hhodgson]

Do you believe word of faith is consistent with God's word?

Do you believe that Calvinism is consistent with God's Word? It's very easy for me to say... "absolutely not." As for Word of Faith... "absolutely yes." (Hear me out viewers)... If you are a true born-again Christian means that God's Holy Spirit is moving (in you), (over you), (thru you), and (around you), right NOW... desiring to release His mighty power and improve your life by (you) speaking the Words of Faith (faith filled words), to heal your body, prosper you financially, OR... whatever your need is.

EVERYTHING... you will ever NEED from God is (already done) by the finished works of Jesus Christ on the cross and He's just waiting on you to SAY the Words of Faith. (Key Scriptures)...

Mark 11:23
Jesus said, "For assuredly, I SAY to you, "Whosoever" shall SAY... [and] not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he SAITH shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he SAITH."​

Romans 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;" that is, the word of faith, which we preach."​

Now, what's next? Just... speak the Word only... for your situation!

​

​

 

[Si_monfaith]

Do you believe that Calvinism is consistent with God's Word? It's very easy for me to say... "absolutely not." As for Word of Faith... "absolutely yes." (Hear me out viewers)... If you are a true born-again Christian means that God's Holy Spirit is moving (in you), (over you), (thru you), and (around you), right NOW... desiring to release His mighty power and improve your life by (you) speaking the Words of Faith (faith filled words), to heal your body, prosper you financially, OR... whatever your need is.

EVERYTHING... you will ever NEED from God is (already done) by the finished works of Jesus Christ on the cross and He's just waiting on you to SAY the Words of Faith. (Key Scriptures)...

Mark 11:23
Jesus said, "For assuredly, I SAY to you, "Whosoever" shall SAY... [and] not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he SAITH shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he SAITH."​

Romans 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;" that is, the word of faith, which we preach."​

Now, what's next? Just... speak the Word only... for your situation!

​

View attachment 247058 ​

The question is:

Acts 4:27-28 :
"Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen."

Can humans do to God's Son what God's power and will hadn't decided beforehand should happen?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Do you believe that Calvinism is consistent with God's Word? It's very easy for me to say... "absolutely not." As for Word of Faith... "absolutely yes." (Hear me out viewers)... If you are a true born-again Christian means that God's Holy Spirit is moving (in you), (over you), (thru you), and (around you), right NOW... desiring to release His mighty power and improve your life by (you) speaking the Words of Faith (faith filled words), to heal your body, prosper you financially, OR... whatever your need is.

EVERYTHING... you will ever NEED from God is (already done) by the finished works of Jesus Christ on the cross and He's just waiting on you to SAY the Words of Faith. (Key Scriptures)...

Mark 11:23
Jesus said, "For assuredly, I SAY to you, "Whosoever" shall SAY... [and] not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he SAITH shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he SAITH."​

Romans 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;" that is, the word of faith, which we preach."​

Now, what's next? Just... speak the Word only... for your situation!

​

View attachment 247058 ​

Now, what's next? Just... speak the Word only... for your situation!

Is the Word of faith movement to which I belong, only about speaking for my situation & getting a solution or in addition, about knowing God for eternal life according to John 17:3?

Do you want to only solve problems? Don't you want to know God?

"And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent".