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WHO CAUSED THE LORD'S DEATH?

Discussion in 'Word of Faith' started by Si_monfaith, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Acts 4:27-28 :
    "Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
    They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen."

    Doesn't God tell us from His word that He had decided beforehand by His will for Herod, Pilate etc to crucify His Son?

    In such a scenario, can we say that the idea to crucify the Lord was made originally by humans? Or are humans simply instruments in the hand of God to fulfill His purposes?

    You can state your opinions in a Christ-like fashion with appropriate warrant from God's word.
     
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  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
     
  3. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    We by our sin caused Jesus's death.
     
  4. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    How can we blame someone for God's gift of love?

    John 3
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    1 John 4
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    Romans 5
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    John 10
    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep...

    18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

     
  5. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    God's predetermination of all events goes hand in hand with our free will. Our evils are still evils, our sins are still sins.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  6. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Who caused the Lord's death?
     
  7. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Jews, Pilate, Romans because they meant evil and God planned it because He meant good.
     
  8. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    Proverbs 21:30, Psalms 94:20-21, Micah 7:18, Matthew 27:22-25.

    Pretty clear through this that God is against the shedding of innocent blood, and that the Jews who forced Pilate's hand said they would bear the cost. Jesus did so in order to redeem us by right, in order that He may continue His work through us (Romans 7:14, 1 Corinthians 6:20, 1 Corinthians 7:23).
     
  9. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    To seek the cause of Jesus' death would inadvertently lead to blame and we can't blame anyone for the greatest act of Love ever.
    Peter says in Acts 2:23 that Jesus was "delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God." God Himself had foreordained and predetermined when and how Jesus would die. Am certain the jewish soldiers,leaders and Pilate felt guilt for His crucifixion but it was all a work of God. In John 19:11 Jesus said to Pilate, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above"-this implies that no one could do anything to Jesus against His will.

    There are many instances in scripture when they attempted to stone Jesus. kill him, etc but 'HIS HOUR' had not yet come.
    When the Hour had come, Jesus knew it (john 12:23, Mat 26:18) and He submitted willingly. Remember in the garden of gethsemane (john 18:3-5), the soldiers came looking for Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus answered, "Iam He" knowing that all things were to pass. Jesus foreknew the torment he would go through at the hands of men and submitted because it was the Father's will.
    The death of Jesus was in submission to His Father's will and Jesus Christ was in total control of His death, "I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father" John 10:17.

    In John 19.30,Jesus "bowed His head, and gave up His spirit". No man took Jesus' life from Him.

    I believe Humans were simply instruments in the crucifixion. God (Jesus is God ) being sovereign foreknew what would happen at the hour of Jesus' death and showed a glimpse of that it to His prophets in the O.T. This is what makes Jesus ' death , a perfect sacrifice for redemption. He humbled Himself to the point of death, yet He was fully in charge.

    Shalom
     
  10. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    I have heard this from atheists, "One would argue and say, man sinned and caused Jesus' death but the devil was the author of sin therefore he is the cause. But the devil was created by God as an angel who rebelled and was cast to the earth yet God could have wiped him out of existence and therefore God is to blame". It will never end!
     
  11. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    We are responcible for our actions and it was our sin that sent Jesus to the cross.
     
  12. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Isaiah 53:3
    He was despised and forsaken of men,
    A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
    And like one from whom men hide their face
    He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
    4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
    And our sorrows He carried;
    Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
    Smitten of God, and afflicted.
    5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
    He was crushed for our iniquities;
    The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
    And by His scourging we are healed.
    6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
    Each of us has turned to his own way;
    But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
    To fall on Him
    .
    7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
    Yet He did not open His mouth;
    Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
    And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
    So He did not open His mouth.
    8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
    And as for His generation, who considered
    That He was cut off out of the land of the living
    For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
    9 His grave was assigned with wicked men,
    Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
    Because He had done no violence,
    Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
    10 But the Lord was pleased
    To crush Him, putting Him to grief
    ;
    If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
    He will see His offspring,
    He will prolong His days,
    And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
    11 As a result of the anguish of His soul,
    He will see it and be satisfied;
    By His knowledge the Righteous One,
    My Servant, will justify the many,
    As He will bear their iniquities.

    Revelation 13:8

    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Clearly it was God the Father who put this all into motion before creation.
     
  13. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    So did Jesus die for us or for God? (Romans 3;25-26).
     
  14. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    He died to satisfy God's judicial nature on our behalf. (So it's kind of both)
     
  15. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Romans 7:20: "Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

    As above doesn't the power called sin as stated in the above verse dwell in people and make them commit acts of sins?

    Galatians 3:22: "But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe."
    Now, as above did humans choose to be brought under the power called sin? Wasn't it the scriptures which refers to God's decree bring all under the control of the power called sin?
     
  16. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Are you considering "ye" as the primary cause or secondary cause of crucifixion?
     
  17. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Was the death of Jesus planned originally by God or humans?
     
  18. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Did God's determination come before human choice?
     
  19. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    1 Peter 1:18-20:
    18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

    As above, wasn't the plan of redemption made before the foundation of the world that is well before humans could commit acts of sins?
     
  20. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

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    Were humans the primary cause of Lord's death?
     
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