Who can baptise others in water

TuxAme

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Its a symbolic gen

It's a symbolic action and any garden hose will do in a pinch.
Many parts of the world are very short of clean water.
I'd hate to sprinkle drinkable water on somebody's head if in short supply.
Ancient Israel was no different, and even modern Israel has had to get clever. But let's forget for a moment about our own modern sensibilities- baptism was probably done with less-than-edible water (yes, the water in my parish's fonts is safe to drink- but you shouldn't). Why do you think the ancient Israelites mixed their water with wine? It wasn't to keep them from getting drunk- the water wasn't particularly safe to drink without it.

Regardless of its cleanliness, water was an important resource. I don't think we can leave ourselves the possibility that baptism is only symbolic when such an important, limited resource is called for in the sacrament.
 
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Doug Melven

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Lets straighten that out. Any minister is an appropriate baptizer--then as well as now. That includes all these with different titles.
I agree, I just don't think we have the same definition for minister.
Minister = servant
Any child of God can be a minister. In fact I believe all of God's children should be servants to build up God's Kingdom. Not just those who have official titles.
 
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Albion

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I agree, I just don't think we have the same definition for minister.
Minister = servant
Any child of God can be a minister. In fact I believe all of God's children should be servants to build up God's Kingdom. Not just those who have official titles.
...or those chosen by the church to administer the sacraments, etc., as described by the New Testament?
 
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TuxAme

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I agree, I just don't think we have the same definition for minister.
Minister = servant
Any child of God can be a minister. In fact I believe all of God's children should be servants to build up God's Kingdom. Not just those who have official titles.
Not all are called. Everyone needs to discern. We're all called to evangelize, but we're not all called to be ministers.
 
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Doug Melven

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Not all are called. Everyone needs to discern. We're all called to evangelize, but we're not all called to be ministers.
Not everybody is called to be a servant to others?
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Is this command only given to those with official titles?
Those who are called to disciple are called to baptize according to Jesus.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Can only Pastor's or every believers have the right to give water baptism to other

For the sake of good order usually Baptism is administered by a pastor. But it's hardly a requirement that one be baptized by a pastor, the history of Christianity is replete with Baptisms being administered by both clergy and laity. In the strictest sense, one does not even need to be a Christian in order to administer Baptism, if in a dire and extreme circumstance the only way to be baptized was by a non-Christian then it would still be a valid Baptism. The validity of Baptism does not reside in the person administering the Sacrament, but in God's word and promise, which makes Baptism Baptism.

But, for the sake of good order, we reserve the administering of the Sacrament to pastors under ordinary circumstances. As a chief point of having pastors is that they are called by the Church to the preaching of the word and the administration of the Sacraments.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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TuxAme

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Not everybody is called to be a servant to others?
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Is this command only given to those with official titles?
Those who are called to disciple are called to baptize according to Jesus.
I said we're not all called to ministry. For example, I'm an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion. Some people are lectors, and others are ushers. Then there are some people who don't feel a call to any of these ministries, or any others. That's OK. We're not all called to be engaged in the gospel in this way. Some of us are called to sit in the pews every day and be ministered to.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I don't see a record of Philip being a Pastor in Acts 8, he was an evangelist.
He may have been a Pastor later, but not when he preached to the Ethiopian.

What makes you think he was a Pastor?

The Philip who baptized the Ethiopian eunuch is identified as a deacon. In the historic practice of the Church the ordained ministry consists of deacons, presbyters, and bishops. We might generally think of presbyters and bishops as pastors, but deacons are historically part of the holy orders of the Church. The diakonal ministry is still pastoral.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Doug Melven

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I said we're not all called to ministry. For example, I'm an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion. Some people are lectors, and others are ushers. Then there are some people who don't feel a call to any of these ministries, or any others. That's OK. We're not all called to be engaged in the gospel in this way
I agree that all believers are not called to official ministry.
Every believer is called to minister.
Even if it is only serving cups of cold water in Jesus' name.

Some of us are called to sit in the pews every day and be ministered to.
No believers are called to just sit in pews.
We should all be ministered to, even the official ministers that the church has ordained to such a position.

But no believers are called to JUST sit and be ministered to. We are not fed so we can sit and get fat on god's Word.
We are to serve, all of us. Every member has a function in the body of Christ.
 
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TuxAme

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But no believers are called to JUST sit and be ministered to.
We clearly have very different ideas on what it means to be a minister, since I find it so obvious that we need to critically discern our function- and that God doesn't call everyone to an obvious, visible role.
 
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Ancient Israel was no different, and even modern Israel has had to get clever. But let's forget for a moment about our own modern sensibilities- baptism was probably done with less-than-edible water (yes, the water in my parish's fonts is safe to drink- but you shouldn't). Why do you think the ancient Israelites mixed their water with wine? It wasn't to keep them from getting drunk- the water wasn't particularly safe to drink without it.

Regardless of its cleanliness, water was an important resource. I don't think we can leave ourselves the possibility that baptism is only symbolic when such an important, limited resource is called for in the sacrament.
Indeed. The significance of both water and blood in literal (material) and symbolic (spiritual) terms has been all but lost in most modern doctrines.
 
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Greg Merrill

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Why do I bother to post in this thread? Would someone be benefited, or do I just "like to hear myself talk" (text)? The subject of baptism has and continues to be "debated/argued." Those that already think they know what they are talking about probably will not be swayed, and if they hear/read anything different they will either not accept it or respond argumentatively or in some other negative manner. Let me ask "What/who is the authority to answer 'Who has the authority to baptize?" Just as an important a question to ask and know the answer to would be "What is the purpose of Biblical baptism? You see there is great and old established differences among churches and individuals, clergy and non-clergy, on these matters. Is it the Bible that is the authority, or the Church (such as the Catholic Church, the Pope, church history?) Is baptism a memorial or a sacrament? Does baptism save, contribute to salvation, or simply act as a public confession of faith? Is baptism just an individual matter, or is it an ordinance that is tied to "the church", whether that church be this denomination or that? So the original post of course can receive a number of conflicting answers. Whatever the answers given, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 might be good to follow. The path followed might determine if You want to be associated with Catholics, or with Baptists and other denominations. It may determine whether you want to go strictly by the Bible or not. It may determine whether you want to follow an orthodox faith of a community of "believers" or just want to try to relate to God on your own self-conceived terms.
 
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DamianWarS

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Can only Pastor's or every believers have the right to give water baptism to other

The great commission tells us to saying "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you"

I fail to see where we need to bring the believer back to an established faith community and let the leader of the community to baptize so that they have documentation and to ensure the baptism was done "properly". Sometimes I think the church sorely misses the point.
 
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Albion

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The great commission tells us to saying "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you"
That passage does not tell US to do that. Jesus was speaking to his Apostles, the original clergy of the church he founded.
 
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Doug Melven

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That passage does not tell US to do that. Jesus was speaking to his Apostles, the original clergy of the church he founded.
So only those Apostles Jesus was speaking to at that moment are the only ones who were to go into all nations making disciples and baptizing?
Seriously?
 
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DamianWarS

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That passage does not tell US to do that. Jesus was speaking to his Apostles, the original clergy of the church he founded.

Didn't Ned Flanders have an emergency baptizing kit?

But seriously what parts of the great commission are for clergy and what parts are for lay people? I receive it as a message for all believers but it seems there is controversy in that.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Anyone technically can baptize, but we should prefer to be baptized by an authoritative clergyman.
The great commission tells us to saying "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you"

I fail to see where we need to bring the believer back to an established faith community and let the leader of the community to baptize so that they have documentation and to ensure the baptism was done "properly". Sometimes I think the church sorely misses the point.

Did the Apostolic Church operate in the fashion you suggest? Baptise anyone and not obligate them to be in communion with, at least to some degree, the Apostles who Christ appointed as leaders of the Church?

The idea of the Church being a free for all doesn't seem to gel well with what we see happening after the resurrection. Churches supported one another (as we see Paul collecting money from other Churches for the sake of the Church at Jerusalem).

What is the benefit of baptizing someone and leaving them to themselves instead of incorporating them properly into the existent Church?
 
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