Who believes this to be true? -We are saved by Torah, not by faith/grace in Yeshua

[Gxg (G²)]

I like this^^

 

[simchat_torah]

salvation means something very different in Judaism and salvation by grace is meaningless to Jews.

Well, I suppose it depends on what you call salvation. If you're going by the Christian definition, sure. But salvation to the Jew revolves around the people as a whole as opposed to sanctification of the individual. There's a ton of passages that refer to such a thing, but a smattering you can look at for now:

Isaiah 2:1-4; 11:9-10; 27:12; 33:22; 42:1-6; 45:14,23; 49:5-6; 23; 51:4-5; 52:7-10; 54:3; 56:1-8; 60-66; Ezekiel 17; 20:42; 34; 36:9-12; 39:26; 47:13-48; 48:35; Daniel 7; Micah 2:12; 4; 5:10-15; 7:17; Amos 9:11-13; Zechariah 2:11; 8:20-23; 14:1-11; Zephaniah 2:9;10; Joel 3:17.

 

[Henaynei]

I like how a rabbi friend once put it: "Everything God gives us, including the Torah, is an act of grace".

The ability to obey is a gracious gift. The alternative is death (in more than one way).

Omeyn
My husband teaches that G-d has been saving by Grace since Gan Eden.
The sacrificial system is an act of faith on the people's part and certainly the giving of Torah was an act of Grace.
Grace did not begin at the Sacrifice of Messiah.

 

[yedida]

I just don't understand how people believe that it is such a burden. I was one of them for so very long but I can't tell you how i bought it!! I really don't know. Unless what I've been saying is true, that it's a calling from Hashem. The Spirit just opens eyes that were so blinded. It's no burden, it's a joy, a liberty, a blessing to know what Abba wants of us. When we know what we are to do then we have permission to be - to be His beloved children walking our way home to His kingdom, the home He has called us to in His grace and made possible by His Son the Living and Written Torah and His finished work. Praise God!! What a journey we are on

 

[Yahudim]

Omeyn
My husband teaches that G-d has been saving by Grace since Gan Eden.
The sacrificial system is an act of faith on the people's part and certainly the giving of Torah was an act of Grace.
Grace did not begin at the Sacrifice of Messiah.

 

[Yahudim]

I didn't vote in this poll, Tish because it did not include a choice that reflected my views. The either/or nature of this poll does not take into account most of us believe. That we are saved by Faith in Him, by the Grace of the Father in giving us instruction and a choice and by Obedience to His instruction. So my vote is Faith, Grace AND Obedience.

There is another Salvation poll here that offers a greater number of choices, just to see if an informal poll taken (by reading posts and PMs) was correct. The choices in the new poll are:

Is salvation thru Torah Obedience, Faith and Grace?
Is salvation thru Torah Obedience alone?
Is salvation thru Faith and Grace alone?
Is salvation thru Faith alone?
Is salvation thru Grace alone?
Is salvation thru none of the above?

I would invite all Messianics to express their positions there, because it even includes a 'none of the above' selection that will allow them to express alternatives not included.

I do not expect, nor am I trying to change anything already in motion. But I simply want to have a more accurate picture of the beliefs of those that carry the Messianic icon.

 

[MessianicMommy]

Omeyn
My husband teaches that G-d has been saving by Grace since Gan Eden.
The sacrificial system is an act of faith on the people's part and certainly the giving of Torah was an act of Grace.
Grace did not begin at the Sacrifice of Messiah.

 

[Avodat]

I didn't vote in this poll, Tish because it did not include a choice that reflected my views. The either/or nature of this poll does not take into account most of us believe. That we are saved by Faith in Him, by the Grace of the Father in giving us instruction and a choice and by Obedience to His instruction. So my vote is Faith, Grace AND Obedience.

There is another Salvation poll here that offers a greater number of choices, just to see if an informal poll taken (by reading posts and PMs) was correct. The choices in the new poll are:

Is salvation thru Torah Obedience, Faith and Grace?
Is salvation thru Torah Obedience alone?
Is salvation thru Faith and Grace alone?
Is salvation thru Faith alone?
Is salvation thru Grace alone?
Is salvation thru none of the above?

I would invite all Messianics to express their positions there, because it even includes a 'none of the above' selection that will allow them to express alternatives not included.

I do not expect, nor am I trying to change anything already in motion. But I simply want to have a more accurate picture of the beliefs of those that carry the Messianic icon.

It allows only obedience to Torah - which is a great one to include! However, I really want to say that it is through obedience, as such, to ALL G_d's word in The Book. I cannot see why Torah is being seperated out - if we are obedient to ALL G_d's word that includes Torah and other parts of G_d's teachings, though, as with Torah, there are parts of The Book that others will not accept / agree with / recognise as achievable.

So, my question is: Why must we ONLY be obedient to Torah and how do we achieve that, given that some of the parts we cannot, any longer, carry out? Given that situation which parts does this 'obedience' relate to?

I cannot vote in this poll, or the other, because here I have to say 'none of the above' only because of the unfortunate exclusion of the whole of the rest of The Book.

 

[yedida]

The majority of us think of the whole of the bible as Torah. The first 5 books absolutely, no contest - but I can just as easily see All the rest of it under the heading Torah too. No problem.
The Torah I'm comfortable with is in black letters on white paper for about 1500 pages then all of a sudden Torah began physically to walk and speak and continues on till the end of the book. All of it is Him.
If we say the Prophets, it's still Him, Torah. If wa say ketuvei hashalichim, it's still Him, Torah. There just isn't a problem. None.