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Who are they who are condemned already ?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Brightfame52, May 21, 2021.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    The word condemned here krinó means:

    I judge, whether in a law-court or privately: sometimes with cognate nouns emphasizing the notion of the verb, (b) I decide, I think (it) good.

    Here in this context the word means :

    used specifically of the act of condemning and decreeing (or inflicting) penalty on one !

    Its the decreed penalty of God against those ones because of their sins.

    Now, who are they that have a penalty of any kind lodged against them by God ?

    Its all for whom Christ did not die. You see, all for whom He did die, He took their penalty and condemnation upon Himself, this is so much the Truth that those whom He died for are born into this world as sinners and enemies, already reconciled to God Rom 5:10, already declared righteous Rom 5:19, so it cannot be anyone Christ died for without it being a miscarrying of Divine Justice ! Everyone Christ died for, for them He hath obtained for them Eternal Redemption Heb 9:12

    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    The word redemption here is the greek word lutrósis and means:

    (in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release.

    the payment of the full ransom-price to free a slave – particularly the redemption of an individual.

    Its a having paid a full ransom price,

    redemption from the penalty of sin:

    So all for whom Christ died, even though they are as other men and women born by nature into the world as filthy sinners, they are nevertheless free from any condemnation from God, and redeemed from any and all penalties due to any and all sin and wrongdoing against God, so much so, that they are born into this World already Reconciled to Him through Christ's Death Rom 5:10 !

    So in conclusion, Who are they who are condemned already in Jn 3:18 ? Its simple, anyone for whom Christ did not die !
     
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  2. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Christ died for all, but not all believe. That’s what we can truly know. Men often prefer darkness, they even don’t want to know God even though He wants all to come to know Him.

    Now this is eternal life: that they know you,the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

    The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise,as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
    2Pet 3:9
     
  3. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day,

    God know those whom he will rebirth for the purpose of believing they are his own adopted children.

    Augustine notes:

    "What do you expect He is going to say, but is judged? Already, says He, has been judged. The judgment has not yet appeared, but already it has taken place. For the Lord knows them that are His: He knows who are persevering for the crown, and who for the flame; knows the wheat on His threshing-floor, and knows the chaff; knows the good grain, and knows the tares. He that believes not is already judged. Why judged? Because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

    CHURCH FATHERS: Tractates on the Gospel of John (Augustine)

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You not even close to understanding what Im posting.
     
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Now did you understand the OP ?
     
  6. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day, Brightflame52

    As a statement about the reality of Christ died for his own.... and a question on John 3:18.

    Did I miss something?

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  7. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus Christ of Nazareth died for all humanity. For those who lived before He walked upon the earth ,during the time He lived on earth and after He left earth. He always existed. Only those who rejected or reject the One and only God will be condemned. Blessings.
     
  8. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is more than one view in Soteriology. I belive the view you are expressing is Calvanism. Be blessed.
     
  9. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    I probably did. maybe you didn't like it. But go ahead and explain it to this heathen if yer willin'...or able.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  10. FaithWillDo

    FaithWillDo Active Member

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    Dear Brightfame52,

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    To correctly understand this verse, you have to understand this verse:

    Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    100% of mankind is already condemned because we have all sinned. All mankind will pay this penalty of death and there are no exceptions. When Christ died on the cross, our sin debt of death was transferred to Him. Christ is our near kinsman redeemer. All mankind now owes Christ our sin debt of death. When Christ comes to us, He will be collecting that debt of death from each of us. But because of the grace of God and Christ's work on the cross, Christ will give each of us a new birth at that time. This is what it means to be "born again" and is the scripturally correct definition of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Our spiritually flawed created condition must be destroyed so that the child of God can be born. The child of God has never sinned and never will. Because of this truth, our relationship with the Father is restored and we are saved.

    So in John 3:18 when it says "he that believeth on him is not condemned", it is referring to the New Man in Christ who has never sinned. The Old Man who sins is condemned already because the penalty of death from Adam's original sin is passed to all his offspring who likewise sin:

    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Also, to make it clear, in our spiritually flawed carnally minded condition, we cannot be saved. In this condition, we can't understand God nor do we seek Him.

    Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    In fact, we only have hatred for God:

    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Because all mankind is in this truly lost condition, our only hope is for Christ to come to us (without our asking or permission) to be made into a new vessel. Our salvation is 100% His work lest any man should boast. If Christ waited to come to only those who asked Him to come, then no one would be saved.

    Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

    Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

    The only person who believes in Christ and who is not condemned is the new vessel who is the New Man in Christ. The Old Man must die and the New Man must be born.

    Paul is the pattern by which all mankind will be saved.

    1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    While Paul travelled the Damascus Road on his way to persecute Christians, Christ came to Paul and gave Paul the Early Rain of the Spirit. This causes Paul to fall to the earth and call Him Lord. This is the time when Christ delivers His first blow with the sword to our Old Man. But since Christ only gives us an earnest amount of the Spirit at that time, our Old Man does not die.

    Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

    The seven headed beast in Revelation is a symbol for mankind in our created spiritual state. Once a person receives the first blow by the sword from Christ, we do not die and that is why one of the heads of the beast depicts this condition.

    At the time of the Early Rain, we remain spiritually blind and must be lead by the hand (as Paul "typed" for us). We do not have the ability to know Christ or understand His word. Because of our spiritual blindness, Satan comes to us and easily deceives us. He masquerades as an angel of light (Christ) and we quickly accept his ways as being the ways of Christ. Christ explains this event in the Wheat and the Tares parable and with this explanation in Matthew chapter 12:

    Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

    Evil spirits represent Satan's false truth. Since we remain spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, we cannot replace our false beliefs with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number eight spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. Our new spiritual condition in this case is "worse than the first". This worsened spiritual condition is called the Man of Sin by Paul.

    It is only when we are in this worsened spiritual condition (when we dwell in "peace and safety") that Christ will come again (second coming of Christ) to us if we are "chosen". When He comes, He comes as a thief in the night to destroy the Man of Sin whom we have become. This is the Day of the Lord and the time of the Latter Rain. This is when the Old Man receives the penalty of death and when the New Man in Christ is born. This is conversion!

    Paul's conversion "types" this path God's "chosen" will travel. Christ, typed by Ananias, came to Paul a second time and received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. He was then converted and the New Man was born. It is only then that the New Man can eat the true bread from heaven and begin learning the truth of Christ.

    The New Man is not condemned but the Old Man is condemned already.

    Joe
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2021
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Not true, people He died for cant be condemned as unbelievers !
     
  12. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is more than one view of Soteriology. You are quoting Calvinism which I am not quoting in my statement. Blessings.
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Call it what you will, you opposing Gods Truth, thats not a good thing to do friend !
     
  14. Butterball1

    Butterball1 Well-Known Member

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    Bible: but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed

    Calvinism: but he that believeth not is condemned already because Christ did not die for him

    Calvinism reads things into the verse that are not there. The verse says the reason for the condemnation is lack of belief and not due to Christ's failure to die for the one who does not believe. The culpability therefore of being condemned is upon the individual for not believing and not upon Christ. God has no culpability for those that choose not to believe nor is God a respecter of persons in choosing winners and losers from among men as to which ones will believe and which one will not. God is not the cause of man's unbelief nor does God punish men for the wrong (unbelief) that God caused them to commit for God is not unjust.
    Mark 6:6 why would Jesus marvel at their unbelief already knowing that He is the cause of their unbelief for not having died for them?
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death even when they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10!
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death for them, while they are enemies in unbelief Rom 5:10, so the already condemned of John 3:18 can't be anyone Christ died for ! That is how we know Christ didn't die for all without exception!94
     
  17. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Very simple answer. Those who "have not believed", just as the verse says.

    And another verse says the same thing.

    2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Both of these verses teach in the clearest of wording that people who have NEVER believed are condemned. That means humanity is born condemned and headed for the lake of fire.

    Only WHEN a person believes and receives the gift of eternal life are they SAVED from condemnation.

    To say "have not believed" without a specific time frame mentioned for context, the phrase means "never believed".
     
  18. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    The verse says it all:
    Jn 3: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed [ie, has NEVER believed] in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This verse separates between these believers who are sinful but not condemned, that is the sinful good seed and the sheep gone astray, from those who have never believed, ie, put their faith in Him, the goats and Satan and all his demonic angels.

    Since we know that Satan was a murderer and a liar from the beginning and therefore condemned from the beginning, this separation describes the Satanic fall which separated Satan et al who put their faith in YHWH being a liar and a false god, never believing and so condemned already, from all the rest of creation who did not follow Satan but rather put their faith in HIM as their GOD and in the Son as the only salvation from sin...before some of them sinned and ended on earth to be redeemed but never condemned, saved by their faith as it were.

    And yes, this does imply that faith was the condition for our election to salvation and that we were all there before the fall listening to the proclamation of the gospel that was proclaimed to every creature under heaven, Col 1:23, ie, every person created in HIS image.
     
  19. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    Not a universal Christian belief, eh?

    Christ's death certainly was efficacious for all but how can it be said He died for the condemned, those condemned already since the beginning of the Satanic fall? Since I believe the gospel of salvation was preached as a past and finished action, to everyone created in his image, Col 1:23, I believe that He was chosen to be the slain lamb before this proclamation was made which suggests to me that He was ready to die for the whole of creation and could successfully do so, if everyone chose to put their faith in Him as their saviour before they chose to rebel against a commandment.

    But to say that He was planning to die FOR those who scorned Him as a liar and a false god (thus sinning the unforgivable sin) at the same time He was condemning them to eternal hell, seems pretty far fetched to me.
     
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Not all unbelievers are condemned.
     
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