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Featured Who are the true Israelites

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The following series may be helpful to you.
    I wish someone had shared these with me when I came to faith.
    An understanding of the New Covenant makes the whole Bible a book about Christ.


    Luk 24:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
    Luk 24:26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
    Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.


    Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
    Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.




    .
     
  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
    8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
    9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;

    When and how does He fulfill the following part?

    behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


    Jesus is the speaker there. When and how does He make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, to come and worship before thy feet , and to know that I have loved thee?

    What does that look like when they come and worship before thy feet, keeping in mind Jesus makes them come and do this, and that the ones He makes come and do this, they are of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.

    Perhaps Keras can address this and provide answers to these questions?
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Good morning, its 8:24 am, here in New Zealand. I'll go for my daily walk when it get warmer, as we are still in winter here.
    I would love to answer all the questions asked of me, but I'm not a teacher and certainly not a prophet. My task is to point out what the Bible prophets have told us, as my name means: keras, or Keraz; a messenger or herald of Biblical news. Hebrew 3745, Greek 2783.

    What I concentrate on, is the forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath. And it will be AFTER that terrible Day, that: Then My people will see and hear clearly. Those who could not 'see it or hear the prophetic message', will at last; understand and know the truth of the Prophetic Word. Isaiah 32:3-4 and Isaiah 29:23-24, Isaiah 42:18-19, Psalms 119:169
    However, as Daniel 12:10 says; a few of the wise people will understand what God has planned for His people in the time of the end.
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Read Ephesians 2:11-18 and other scriptures that make it abundantly clear that ethnicity is of no consequence to Salvation.
    There are only two types of people today; God's faithful born again Christians and all the rest.

    “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock, it is opened. ”
    ― C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
     
  5. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    How do you fake being a Jew then ?
    Is fake jew born again christian or in the cathegory of all the rest ?

    Revelation is last book so it must agree with everything prior to that did John make mistake or there are more than two groups of people ?
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

    Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    .
     
  7. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Would you consider a fake Jew somebody who is circumcised in flesh but not in spirit ?
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    What I consider does not matter.

    What did Paul say in Romans 2:28-29?


    .
     
  9. seventysevens

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    what scripture do you have that says such a thing ?
    that does not match that God made all mankind in the image of himself - He would not create people for the purpose of not believing - that itself goes against freewill being free to choose

    2Peter

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Ezk33

    11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’

    12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’

    13 If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done.

    14 And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— 15 if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die.
    16 None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live.


    Your pastor is wrong
     
  10. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    So am I Jew as born again Christian ?
     
  11. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God's only concern and interest are in whether you have been born again, and continue to live in faith in, and obedience to, Him. Genetics and ancestry are irrelevant in His determination of your spiritual condition.
     
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  12. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Those who call themselves Jews, but are not. Revelation 3:9
    Which applies to about 99.5% of the people who do call themselves Jews. They have continued in their rejection of Jesus and their worship of God, what there is of it; is by rote and they fail to acknowledge God as their protector.
    They are no longer the chosen people of God. Matthew 21:43
     
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  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    A study of the first two chapters of Hosea shows us they are specific to the House of Israel, who was to be cast off and divorced from God. Judah is not a part of this prophecy, as proved by Hosea 1:7.
    Israel were to be scattered (“Jezreel”); they were to have no mercy (“Lo-ruhamah”); and they were to be no longer God’s people (“Lo-ammi”). But at the same time, God promised that they would be regathered under one Head (Jesus Christ) and come out of exile. In fact, God told them He would- betroth thee unto Me in righteousness. Hosea 2:19 The prophecy culminates with a Hebrew play on words. The name “Jezreel” means “God scatters,” but it also means “God sows.” (One must scatter the seed in order to sow it in a field.)

    Therefore; initially, the prophesies say that Israel was to be scattered; but ultimately it shows God’s Purpose; to sow Israel in the earth in order to multiply them as the sand of the sea, so as God remains faithful to His promise to Abraham.

    Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art My God.

    In other words, even though God did indeed cast off His people of Israel, scattering them among the nations by the hand of the Assyrians, God’s ultimate Purpose was to sow them in the earth, so that they would multiply and fulfill the promise to Abraham.
    Furthermore, Hosea prophesied that; in the very place (of their captivity) where it is said that they are not God’s people (Israel), they would be [Christians] known as; “the Sons of the living God." Hosea 1:10, Romans 9:24-26

    The problem is that most Christians try to make the Jews fulfill these prophesies, when the House of Judah, is fact, fulfilling an entirely different set of prophecies. God in His great mercy has allowed them nearly 2000 years to change their hearts to Him and to accept Jesus as Messiah. But the Bible plainly states that only a remnant will do so and survive. Isaiah 6:13, Romans 9:27

    People should realize that the Jews are to fulfill the prophecies of the House of Judah, not those dealing with the hidden House of Israel. The Jews were certainly “cast off” in 586 BC and again in 70-135 A.D., even as Israel was cast off during 745-712 B.C.—but the difference is that the prophets consistently prophesy good things for lost Israel even during the time of their captivity; while punishments and persecutions were pronounced upon Jerusalem and the Jewish people.

    Note that Ezekiel 21:14 tells of 3 Judgements of Judah. The next one, to come; will be by the Hand of the Lord Himself. Ezekiel 21:1-7

    In Jeremiah 18:1-10, God says that the House of Israel was marred in the Potter’s hand, so God was going to beat down the wet clay and remake it into a vessel fit for His use. Then beginning in verse 11, God begins to prophesy about Jerusalem and Judah. First comes an indictment for their sins, and then in Jeremiah 19:1-15 we see that Jeremiah was to take an old earthen vessel (as opposed to wet clay that was pliable), he was to go to the city dump and smash the earthen vessel there, saying: Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaks a potter’s vessel, that cannot be made whole again, and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place left to bury. Thus will I do unto this place, says the Lord, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet.


    God’s choice of an allegory to suit each House is amazing!

    An old clay vessel, once broken, cannot be remade into another vessel. Only wet, pliable clay can be used to remake a vessel. The House of Israel is like the pliable clay; but the House of Judah will be smashed, never again to be made into a vessel of honour.

    At the end of the first Temple era, God departed from it and Ezekiel saw the glory depart. Ezekiel 10:4-19 It has never returned to the Temple. Even when Zerubbabel rebuilt the Temple in 515 B.C., the Shekinah glory did not return to it when they dedicated it to God. The work was good and was allowed by God, but the site and the nation was under a curse.

    This is consistent with the New Testament prophecies regarding the cursed fig tree, Matt. 21:21 the parable of the vineyard, Matt. 21:43-44 and the parable of the citizens who hated Him and would not allow Him to reign over them. Luke 19:27

    The point is, these peoples must still be around to fulfill these distinct prophecies for Israel and for the cursed fig tree. The lost House of Israel must exist to be remade into another vessel and Judah must exist to be virtually wiped out. Isaiah 22:14 The problem comes when people think that the smashed vessel is going to be rebuilt into a vessel fit for God’s use, and when those same people think that the original House of Israel is lost forever.
    Ref: logostelos.info
     
  14. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Over the centuries, the false teachers who have crept into the church have taught the idea that God will yet redeem ethnic Israel, when their chance already occurred two thousand years ago. God in His mercy has allowed them all this time to change and accept Jesus as their Messiah. Only a very few have become Christian; they are the remnant in Isaiah 6:13, Romans 9:27

    When the Apostle Paul quoted the Habakkuk 1:5 prophecy concerning the “marvellous wonder” which had occurred through Christ bringing about the Spiritual salvation of humankind, he also quoted from Isaiah 29:16, concerning the great change of identity – the Lord’s turning of things upside down – when God changed Israel from an ethnic people to a Spiritual entity of faithful Christians.

    As the no longer chosen flesh and blood Jews realized the Christians were now the Spiritual House of Israel, through which God would shine His light to the nations, they adamantly opposed the salvation which Jesus offered: Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes [responding to the Gospel], they were filled with envy, and spoke against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

    When God opened the door of salvation to the Gentiles, the physical Jews came to see that they were left behind in God’s amazing plan to redeem the Gentiles through the Blood of Jesus. The Jews had read how the prophets said the light of God would shine to the rest of the nations through His servant, but they wrongly applied the role of servant to themselves.

    Isaiah 41:8, 42:1 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Behold my servant, whom I uphold…I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee as a covenant of the people for a light to the Gentiles. This specifically refers to Jesus and by extension; to all who follow Him.

    As a result, the Jewish leaders say the Messiah has not yet arrived, and they continue to claim themselves as the bearers of God’s Word. They also claim, just as the false prophets in the contemporary Christian church now mistakenly assert, that God will yet save ethnic Israel, when He’s already fulfilled His redemptive promise:

    Romans 10:21 To the Jews he says: All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and defiant people.

    Romans 11:1-6 I ask then, Has God rejected His people? God forbid. God has not cast away his people which he foreknew. For I also am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin and we have the same access to God’s grace as the Gentiles.
    Paul, the Disciples and a few thousands other Jews, did fulfil this, from then until now.

    After the Jews intensely opposed the Gospel because they saw how the Christians had inherited the role of Israel, they persecuted the believers – blaspheming the “marvellous work” the LORD had achieved through Jesus. Paul and Barnabus confronted them, and left no doubt the rapidly growing body of Christ was to be considered Spiritual Israel, as Paul quoted the very same prophecies which showed Israel was to be the Lord’s light to the Gentiles, and undeniably applied them to the believers in Jesus Christ.

    Acts 13:46-48, quoting Isaiah 42:6, 49:6, Then Paul and Barnabus waxed bold, and said, it was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing that you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so has the Lord commanded us, saying I have set you [the Apostles] to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou should be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life; believed.
     
  15. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus showed the answer to all that in His Prayer of John 17.

    There He revealed one group which were 'sent' (meaning of the word apostle), and were not of this world, but were given Him by The Father, their originally belonging to The Father. Then Jesus said He prayed not only for them, but also for those who come to Him through 'their word' (i.e., by the preaching of The Gospel by His Apostles, the first group).

    The 'sent' ones represent His 'very elect' and since Christ's resurrection, they cannot be deceived. That includes modern-day 'sent' ones too for the end of days which have been sealed by The Holy Spirit.

    The second group are those who hear The Gospel and believe by the preaching of Christ's 'sent' ones. Those can... still be deceived and must be tested.

    The best New Testament example of a 'sent' one was Apostle Paul. It was especially shown by Jesus striking Paul down on the road to Damascus, blinding him, Personally influencing Paul's choice to believe Him or not. At that time Paul had authority from the Jews to go hunt down Christians. Jesus flipped Paul directly. That's a definitely sign of a chosen 'sent' elect. In Acts 9 our Lord Jesus reveals exactly that about Apostle Paul.
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your theory still does not take into account the whole Word of God.

    Jude 1 does reveal that God did ordain certain men crept in unawares during this world to the condemnation of being against Christ. He does have a negative side of His Salvation Plan set in the works also, even as Paul showed in Romans 9 regarding Esau and Pharaoh.

    However, not yet today even, is anyone born in the flesh been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" event. Only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish, no others have yet.

    Furthermore, there will be a future "thousand years" reign by our Lord Jesus with His elect over all peoples, including the wicked and the "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29; Rev.22:14-15). Zechariah 12 reveals many of the unbelieving Jews will know Jesus Christ is Messiah, and will feel shame for having rejected Him. Paul showed in Romans 11 about these, telling us God put blindness upon them so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles. He pointed to a time when He would remove that blindness upon them, suggesting they would then be able to believe on Jesus after His coming (i.e., Millennium timing).

    Jesus confirms this idea of the unbelieving Jews wanting for the mountains and hills to fall upon them when He appears, because of their shame once God's blindness is removed from them (Luke 23:27-30).

    We must remember Peter said that God does not wish for any to perish, but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). So even those He used to work the negative side of His Plan, excepting the devil and his, they must be given the opportunity to make their own free will choice. For many that has been during this present world. For the rest, it will be during Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the nations of Revelation 20.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Jesus came to bring about a spiritual restoration. He brought the New Covenant into the world by his blood. Matthew 26:28

    Through Jesus Christ, the Apostolic church are the new Israelites of God. Jesus Himself was the true Israel. He was everything that Israel was supposed to be, but never was. They never lived up to what God wanted them to be, until Jesus came and He, as the promised seed of Abraham, Galatians 3:16, is the real Israel.

    One of the metaphors of Israel was the vine. Jeremiah 2:21, Isaiah 5:7

    When Jesus came he made it clear that HE was the vine. John 15:1 He said: I am the vine. You are the branches. That is: I am the true Israel, you who believe in Me are a part of Israel. [the Hebrew word; ‘Israel’, means: ‘Overcomers for God’.]

    So, Christians are His body and He is the head of it. Each individual righteous Christian belongs to the Israel of God. They are the true Israel, the chosen people.

    What was Israel, the ethnic people, chosen for? They were chosen to be a holy people in the midst of a wicked, perverted and pagan world. They were chosen to be the witnesses of the One God in the midst of a world that believed in numerous gods. That’s what their task was. And through the Kingly line of Judah, they brought forth the Messiah into the world. They rejected Him, so the Kingdom was taken from them. Matthew 21:43

    Now, true Christians, the real ekkelasia of faithful Christian peoples, has become the chosen people because we witness the Gospel and we are the nation that bears the proper fruit.
    True Christian believers are the new Israel, the visible Israel of God on earth.

    Bible prophecy, especially Revelation can never be properly understood unless you
    know who the holy people of God really are. Revelation 13:7, Daniel 7:25

    If you get that right then you will see God’s plan in all of Bible prophecy correctly.

    Christian believers are the Israel of God and to think God is going to save and redeem the Jewish State of Israel while the ‘Church’ is raptured to heaven, is to believe a Satanic lie. Bible prophecy is clear: everyone remains on earth, to face the testing times ahead and to fulfil our tasks of being God’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, and being His light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Be prepared for more credibility attacks by the unbelieving Jews and their deceived, because they don't like the Churches thinking that there's others in the world that represent God's Israel instead of themselves only.

    From my Bible study, I see two Israels today. Apostle Paul showed us in Romans 11 that God has blinded Israel in part so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles. Those He blinded away from The Gospel are the unbelieving Jews. How can God hold responsible those whom He Himself blinded from The Gospel? They are still elect Paul said, as the calling and gifts from God are without repentance, meaning He won't go back on them. When our Lord Jesus returns, then He will remove their blindness, and then they will make their choice to believe on Jesus, or not.
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Thanks Davy. But mostly I just get ignored.
    Yes, there are those who call themselves Israel, but are not and the real Israelites of God, who are every born again Christian, from every race, nation and language.

    When the Lord does take action on His soon to happen; Day of wrath, He will destroy His enemies. As prophesied, this will include all of the Middle East area. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, + Only a remnant of Judah will survive. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13, Romans 9:27
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Due to poor and errant Church teachings, many people are confused about who exactly are God's people.
    Are the Jews still God's people today? Are there any prophecies or commands of God as to how Christians are to deal with them? Are the things happening in Palestine any indication of the coming of Jesus? What about the inheritance of Israel and who will receive it?

    The Bible is clear on the subject and it is important to us. We must remember that the term "Jew" as used in the gospels is mostly used to denote the religious leaders of Jesus time. Other terms were used when speaking of the people, such as: the common people heard him gladly. Mark 12:37 We should also keep in mind that the early church was almost entirely Jewish. For over three years the gospel went throughout Jerusalem and Judea before it went to the Gentiles. The three thousand added to the church on the day of Pentecost were Jewish people.

    Romans 11:2-22.. Paul says that Israel is not totally cast away and points to himself as evidence. He became a follower of Christ and he worked for the salvation of the Jews all through his ministry, even though he was the apostle to the Gentiles. In verse 7 he says "Israel has not obtained what it seeks." Then in verses 19-22 where he is talking about Christians being grafted into their olive tree, he says: Branches were broken off that you might be grafted in. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

    The words; did not spare is evidence that as a nation he considered the Jews no longer God's people. As individuals they can still have salvation; as individuals they are no different from anyone else. As a nation, too, they are no different: all need Jesus. Now consider Galatians 3:29. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. All God's promises in scripture are for faithful Christian people.
    As individuals, Jews have as much chance for salvation as any Gentile.

    The Jewish nation's general rejection of Jesus caused them, to lose out on the final inheritance. That inheritance has passed on to all who accept their Messiah (Jesus) as their personal Savior and Redeemer. But as Christians we have been grafted into their olive tree, and we can be cut off as surely as their nation was. Romans 11:21-22.

    Had the Jews, as a nation, accepted their Messiah, they would have been the people, [church] through whom God would work to bring the Gospel to all the world. It was their gospel, but they refused to accept it. Thus was born the Christian church and we have the responsibility to spread the Gospel. This task has been undertaken with reasonable success, but much remains to be done. It will be completed in the end times by the 144,000. Isaiah 66:19

    Through Jesus we can obtain title to a kingdom that will never pass away.
    Colossians 1:12thru Jesus, we are fit to share in the Kingdom of Light.

    Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven, shall be given to the holy people of the most High. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them..
    What a glorious promise we have in Jesus our Lord.

    Matthew 1:1-17 goes to great lengths to show that Jesus was of the line of David, moving from Abraham to Joseph the earthly Father of Jesus. Luke 3:23-38 does the same thing backwards. He starts with Jesus and works back in time all the way back to Adam. Both genealogies agree and pass through David and Solomon. The throne was promised to David forever by God. And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD forever. I Kings 2:45.

    Then in 1 Chronicles 28:9, Solomon was warned the promise was conditional. Zedekiah was the last king of Judah. After the Babylonian captivity, the Jews never had a king, only governors, as they were under the rule of other nations. The Edomite Herod kings of Jesus' time were not of the line of David and were appointed by the Roman Caesar. Judah lost their kingdom and have never regained it. Matthew 21:43

    Daniel 7:27 makes it clear that the kingdom will be given to the people of the saints of the Most High.
    The kingdom that God sets up is forever. Daniel 2:44

    Paul, speaking of the Israelites of Moses day said: And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4.

    Jesus said: Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they testify of me. John 5:39.

    When one stops to realize that the Old Testament Scriptures were the only Scriptures available when Jesus said that, we can see that Jesus is all through the Old Testament. Proverbs 8:22-31

    Paul, raised a Pharisee, said: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Colossians 3:11.
    In Christ, Old and New Testaments are bound together and all the promises are now to be fulfilled for the Christian Israelites of God.
     
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