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Who "are" the sons of GOD in Genesis 6?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Pastor Bob Oliver, Oct 2, 2002.

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  1. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    quote:"That's just it Andrew, I'm not sure the Bible really does say it.Ê I know that's what the explanation is for that passage but my questions are what keeps me from fully accepting "that" explanation."

    Well Quaffie, actually its kinda of simple. look at the verse below

    4 The Nephilim [giants KJV] were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

    First you have to ask yourself if the Nephilim were real giants that exisited. Now, there no denying that they existed becos the OT talks abt them in many places eg Goliath and King Og. The OT even give's their height measurements. So its not a myth or fable. or just basketball players *LOL

    That these Nephilim giants were so unusual already tells us something abt their human-ness. ie not your average human.

    This in turn tells us something abt "sons of God". are they just ordinary men? if so why the switch from "men" to "sons of man" then to "men". clearly there are 2 types of beings here addressed:

    1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
    2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

    why the contrast betw men and sons of men? eg why didnt v2 just say the men saw that the daughters of men where beautiful... if we're just talking abt ordinary man here?

    Finally, as you already know, a rule of thumb in Bible Study is consistency. "sons of God" in the OT always refer to angelic beings. So, what is our reason for interpreting it differently in this case? becos it sounds more logical to our scientific minds?

    anyway, hope this helps you.

    shalom
     
  2. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Our "scientific minds" Is that the problem, you have a scientific mind? We are to have the mind of Christ. This is what Jesus says:

    Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    He says that Angels DO NOT marry, nor are they given in marriage. They do not take wife's onto themselves.

    Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Moses tells us that the "sons of God" "took them wives". That means they got married to the daughters of men. Jesus tells us that angels "neither marry, nor are given in marraige".

    Maybe what people need to do is put off their "scientific mind" and put on the mind of Christ.

    Philip. 2:5  Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

    Philip. 2:2  Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

    It seems we have a different mind here. You talk about having a scientific mind, I talk about having the mind of Christ. The Bible tells me that according to the mind of Christ, angels do not marry, nor are they given in marriage. 




     
     
  3. HE was talking about the "standing" Angels, not fallen ones, and HE was talking about Heaven not earth!
     
  4. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,376
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Agreed.  Sorry if there is some confusion as to who I was referring to in my comment about riddles.

    I don't see the subject matter as an issue that I really need to be concerned with.  However, if someone can answer my question then that would be fine too.

    At this point in time, I don't believe that angels (fallen or standing) can pro-create.
     
  5. wblastyn

    wblastyn Jedi Master

    +110
    Agnostic
    Single
    The Book of Enoch agrees:

    1 Enoch Chapter 6

    And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'

    1 Enoch Chapter 7

    And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

    1 Enoch Chapter 8

    And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways.

    1 Enoch Chapter 10

    Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.' And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]s and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.

    For more go here: http://wrightworld.net/enoch.htm

    As for the Book of Enoch not being Canon, the writer of Jude quoted from it:

    Jude 1:14-15 we read, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him". This quote is from the Apocryphal book of 1 Enoch chapter 2:1
     
  6. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
    And some here talk about CULTS? Mormans, Jehovas Wittnesses, and Adventists [Using other books!] :scratch: (and I am not suggesting that I have researched all of these other 3)

    But we are TOLD by Paul's INSPIRITION that.. "And the spirit of the prophets [ARE SUBJECT TO THE PROPHETS]." This garbage from this poster has ALL BEEN THROWN OUT by past, PRESENT & future 'Christian' scholar's,
    as WHACKY, off base, and found to be in 'e'vil violation of 2 Cor. 4:2! So, ONCE AGAIN, *READ REV. 3:9. -------P/N/B/ (it is MORE of BABYLONIAN CONFUSSION! Which *GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF! see 1 Cor. 14:33)
    ********

     
  7. wblastyn

    wblastyn Jedi Master

    +110
    Agnostic
    Single
    What are you babbling on about now? All I was saying is another book seems to support that view.

    Some people do believe the Book of Enoch should have been canonized because the writer of Jude quoted from it and it explains in detail why God sent the flood and how the demons that the Book of Revelation speaks of were bound in the first place.

    The fact Jude quoted from it seems to prove that the Jews and Early Church considered it scripture.

    I suppose you know better than the Early Church "Fathers", even though some knew the Apostals personally.

    What is your childhood trauma? All I was doing was posting an outside source, which was considered scripture by the Jews and early church. Try to look at a different perspective for once instead of wacking me with the "heretic stick".

    How dare you accuse me of spreading "Bablyonian confusion", I'm hardly putting anyone's salvation at stake or anything, the passages I quoted were about demons mating with women, hardly "essential" to being a Christian.

    I am so sick and tired of all these "holier than thou" Christians, who look down their nose at everyone who does things slightly differently than they do. It's people like this who make people leave the Church.

    EDIT: You know, instead of yelling at me and accusing me of being a false prophet, spreading Babylonian Confusion, you could have just said the Book of Enoch is considered heresy by most scholars.  I didn't know this, everything I read on this says the Early Church and Jews considered it Holy Scripture, it was removed from the canon, some people think it should be canonized, others think it should be read alongside scripture, most people don't know it exists.

    I'd hate to be a member of your congregation and come to you with a problem, you'd probably start yelling at me like a crazy person.
     
  8. PK2

    PK2 Yankfan

    265
    +3
    Christian
    :clap: That's right wblastyn, that's the exact reason I abandoned this thread, which I oringinally started; because sadly, we have Christian wolves in our forums, that is, people, who have no life, they have nothing better to do, than to sit and lurk for anyone at all, that does not see things the same exact brainwashed way that they do! These wolves have made up their minds to completely disregard "anything" that may not line up perfectly with their comfortable doctrine; but what makes it worse wblastyn, is when someone like you or I attempt to discuss a "possibility" in the Scriptures about a rather grey area, like this one, and these blood thirsty vultures begin calling you names like heretic, blasphemer, false prophet, evil, and the like; Listen, you would think that we were suggesting salvation  by works or no need for new birth or no hell doctrine and the like; We are not even talking about a fundamental doctrinal teaching of the Bible here; Personally I have talked with many brethren concerning this theory, some have agreed with me, some have not agreed, but in "NO CASE" did any of us ever break "Fellowship" over it!!!!!! Why? It's because they, like myself, were Walking In The SPIRIT of GOD, NOT IN THE FLESH, like these carnivores; They do not understand what JESUS says concerning how you're supposed to treat other believers and that's why they're the way they are--it's Futile wblastyn, I suggest to you to abandon this thread as I already have; I am a Pastor of a Bible Believing Baptist Church here in Maine, yet 3 times they have attacked me personally saying that I'm not a Pastor, I was never called to preach, I do not know what a son of GOD is, I have no business calling myself a Pastor, etc. etc. etc. ; these are evil rebels, they no respect for spiritual authority, and one of them even claims that he is a Pastor, yet even he continues to "bash" GOD'S people on this very thread; Dear Brother, I'm really sorry I ever began this post, I just thought that there were more True Christians here that would manifest the Love Of CHRIST, instead of the enmity of the devil! God Bless You wblastyn & Andrew.

    p.s. I found the quotes from the Book of Enoch extremely interesting myself.

    Sincerely,

    PBO
     
  9. PK2

    PK2 Yankfan

    265
    +3
    Christian
    Actually that was my Dad, Pastor Bob Oliver, that made the previous post, he did'nt realize he was not logged in.
    PK2
     
  10. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
     
  11. is there a pastor nb there?
     
  12. helllo?
     
  13. suddenly silent
     
  14. wblastyn

    wblastyn Jedi Master

    +110
    Agnostic
    Single
    Thankyou and God bless you too :)

    Oh I see, so every post has to be worthy of your time, because your time is more important than everyone elses?

    When did I ever actually say *I* personally believe in this "foolish tale", as you put it. I'm only putting forward an idea and all you do is attack me.

    Hypocritical much? How exactly is attacking me for my opinion helping either?

    So now I'm an ignorant, dumb dog? Gee, feeling the love of Christ in this forum. [/sarcasm off]

    Ad Hominem arguments are when the opposition attacks you instead of your opinion when they have a weak argument, that is what you are doing.

    Ok, all we are doing here is discussing what a Biblical verse could mean, and I brought in some outside evidence, which supported a particular view. I can't see what is wrong with quoting from something that isn't scripture when it supports a scriptural view. It's like Jesus is in the New Testament and seen by witnesses, who wrote about it, and they are all in scripture, but there are also outside sources, such as writings of Josephus, who mention Jesus and support scriptural claims.
     
  15. See that's the problem wblastyn, these supposed "Christians" even come on here and "make up stories" about those who see things differently than them; that's why I say, "It is not worth your time to even attempt to have an intelligent, godly, discourse with them; they have no desire to edify and encourage the Brethren, their only goal is to "impose" their way of thinking upon others, and if they cannot persuade you, they get mad at you! It's not worth it at all--but GOD BLess You my Brother and Keep Looking Up!
    PBO
     
  16. wblastyn

    wblastyn Jedi Master

    +110
    Agnostic
    Single
    Thanks again :)

    You should all take note how Pastor Bob Oliver responds to other people, he does not attack or look down on you like you're dirt, unlike some of you here.
     
  17. :( I think he's 7th day anyway.
     
  18. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
     
  19. wblastyn

    wblastyn Jedi Master

    +110
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    Single
    Let me rephrase that, the fact that the writer of Jude quoted from it, plus writings of the early church "fathers" proves it was considered scripture by the early church.

    The writer of Jude quoted from the Book of Enoch because it was considered scripture by the Jews, just as Jesus and the Apostals sometimes quoted from the Old Testament.
     
  20. wblastyn

    wblastyn Jedi Master

    +110
    Agnostic
    Single
    Do you mean someone here is 7th day adventist? Who?
     
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