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Who "are" the sons of GOD in Genesis 6?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Pastor Bob Oliver, Oct 2, 2002.

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  1. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    For one thing, we know angels, we work with them. When we go to Africa, Michael heads up the Heavenly army and so we work with Michael.

    Second of all, angels do not have a body like we have. They were created in Heaven. Man was made from the dust or the clay and is of the earth. As Paul says: "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." 1 Cor. 15:48

    Angels do not reproduce themselves. As Jesus told us in the resurrection, we will receive a spiritual body and will no longer reproduce.

    Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

    The Bible makes a clear distinction between the sons of God in this verse and Satan. As you see in Job 15:19b "and no stranger passed among them." To be "among" does not mean your apart of something, but clearly distinct from it.

    Fallen angels are NOT sons of God, nor can they be. Sons of God reflect God, fallen angels and fallen men do not reflect God. To be a son of God, you have to have the nature of God. You have to have love, mercy, compassion & all nine fruits of the Spirit. Most of all, you have to always do the will of God. Angels always do the will of God, and if we want to work with the angels, then we also need to always do the will of God.

    Why do you think we see all the miracles and healing that we see. Because we work with the Angels. In order to work with angels, you have to always do the will of God. A house divided can not stand. Sinful people do not know angels and do not work with the angels. Esp. if their sin is rebellion against God.  


    You see, that is why I have not just walked away from this thread. If we are born again, if we are a new creation in Christ, we become sons of God. So it is important that people know just what it means to be a son of God.


    That takes me back to my origional question, which I never got an answer for. How can a person call themselves a pastor if they do not know what it means to be a son of God. Instead of getting an answer to my question, all I got is judged as being such and such and so and so. The Bible says, do not judge, that we are guilty of what we judge others of.

    Ephes. 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    Paul clearly says that the work of ministry is to "perfect" the saints. We are to build people up so that they become sons of God.

    Ephes. 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    Do you know what "unity of the faith" means? Do you know what it means to have "knowledge of the Son of God"? Or even knowledge of what it means to be a Son of God? Do you know what it means to be a "perfect man"?

    I keep right on answering your questions, but no one is answering my questions. You see, everything I do here is centered on trying to show people what it means to be a son of God. Thanks, JohnR7


     


     

     


     
     
  2. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Hay, (S.C. talk)
    P/N/B/ here: Perfect Man became 'little' lost sons of evil man. LOST IN OTHER WORDS. OK? All of 'his' (sinful lost humanity) offspring BECAME SONS OF GOD *ONLY BY GEN. 3:15's way. The Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.. [IF] One [LIVES THE FAITH] by the 'PROMISED PROVISIONS'.

    And about the calling of Pastors that teach evil angels have kids?? They are FULL OF THE LAODICEAN GARBEL of Rev. 3:16-17, that also tells us of BLINDNESS & [NAKEDNESS]! + Matt. 25's foolish! (naked of what?)

    There are TWO class seen here. Cain became, from saint in faith, to an OPEN REBELLOUS SINNER, [KNOWINGLY!] He had a NEW DESIRE! Read it!
    *********************************

    PS: And 'NO' John R7, this is not a reply to your [excellent post] :clap: Only in your 'profile' you do look like perhaps you have your eyes closed? :) :)
     
  3. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    I am really not a big fan of having my photo taken. So there are not a lot of them. I got to kinda go with what I have to work with. That is one of the very few photos of my dad and both of my sons together with me actually in it, instead of taking the photo.

    Otherwise, yep, your right, my eyes are closed :) Did you check out my photo album's on webshots.com? I got a lot of photos of my youngest son and my wife. They love to have their photo taken.
     
  4. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Andrew,

    I question this theory also.  I've copied your notes to read when I get home. 

    I have two main questions?

    1. Where in the Bible does it state that angels can pro-create?

    2. Since angels are male, (at least that's what I've heard) if they were made to procreate, who where they made to have sex with? What would be the point of them being able to do something they could not do righteously?
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Why is that so hard to accept?"

    Andrew, its because its a theory and not a for sure thing :)
     
  6. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Hi,
    Perhaps it is a tad bit deep to think of [spiritual] sex with 's'atan & his evil angels, you know 'fornication & adultery against the bridegroom, Christ! And with the 'her' of Rev. 18:1-4. It would be 'bibical' to see how this is done!!

    Perhaps evil angels creating kid'gels is only one way? O' well, whatever?---N/B/H/
     
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    "1. Where in the Bible does it state that angels can pro-create?"

    Quaffie, which notes were you refering too? the detailed one on my website? or those posted here? i explain it clearly there on my website. perhaps you want to read that first then discuss with me, i'd be happy too.

    the site is here:
    http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/giants.html

    I'm not going to be dogmatic abt it cos it's not really an impt subject, just a very interesting one. Just that this is so far the best explanation i've heard that is backed by scripture and fits in well with the rest of the Bible.

    shalom :)

    btw: to answer your question. it says so right there in Gen 6 -- if you can see that sons of God refers to angels in the OT.
     
  8. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    *****************
    So:
    What is being said is..."it says so right there in Gen. 6'', you state as fact!
    And that is, that the [God] created ones, Adam & Eve, which He first created *VERY GOOD, (not just good) were to have offspring by satans evil angels & that 's'atan would CREATE & IMPROVE upon perfection???? (HOGWASH!)

    The Perfect Created Mind of God was not perfect either, huh? They needed more of satans stuff as seen in the [message] of this posted site!

    Yet [the real Truth] is that the GodHead had first created these ones to NEVER die, (age=eternity) that makes these ones, GIANTS in longivity also, huh? Yet, you say that [these] PERFECT 'GIANTS' were inferior in size to satans PERFECT CREATION! And would be inproved upon? (i wonder who you work for? see Gen. 4:6-7)

    OK: Lets start with your (?Eph. 6:12) concept. :cry:
    What happened to THE [GODHEADS FIRST CREATED *PERFECT GIANTS]?
    After satan took their PERFECTION AWAY BODILY &
    Spiritually, much does not today need to be said does it? We can just Look inside the USA, and at the professed Christian teachings of today? From the ministry on down!

    The issue is the size of man, both giants & their 'AGE' started the down hill slide! (BIGTIME!) They did not get bigger & better! THIS IS WHAT GOD IS TELLING US, THAT HIS CREATION WERE *VERY GOOD, NOT JUST GOOD, PERFECT IF YOU CAN HANDEL THAT? :scratch: This was the STARTING POINT!

    Everything about man would have died because of sin, not have gotten better. Notice who it is that said: "YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE", AND? And the woman told God, "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." (go to your site? :scratch:)

    Can God be trusted is the question that WE ARE now answering.
    BEFORE THE FLOOD [HIS] CREATION WERE [ALL GIANTS].
    Mans diet is [given] in Gen. 1:29-30 & CALLED PERFECT for these inlightened ones, as these PERFECT VERY GOOD ones of the 'SONS OF GOD' are called. verse 31.

    Now, this is what He let be done [[AFTER]] the *flood to mankind. Notice your term of giants in this 'lighted' verse... "AND [SURELY] YOUR BLOOD OF YOUR LIVES [WILL I REQUIRE; AT THE HAND OF EVERY BEAST WILL I REQUIRE IT]." (Gen. 9:5 & then verse 3) Now for the verse slightly ABOVE it? "EVERY MOVING THING THAT LIVETH SHALL BE [MEAT] (*food) FOR YOU: [EVEN AS] THE GREEN HERB HAVE I GIVEN YOU ALL THINGS."

    (we know that by reading elsewhere the 'clean' intered the Ark by seven vrs the un/clean by a two ratio! UNCLEAN means what? see Gen. 7:1)

    But back to the GIANTS that were of the GODHEADS CREATION! What happened VERY QUICKLY WITH THIS NEW DIET? But first lets see the age of some of these Giants? the ones that followed God before the flood! The ones that God created.. "In the day that God created man, [IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD MADE HE HIM." Gen. 5:1-- This is the book of the generationss of Adam! (that followed God)

    V. 3. Adam is important! whose IMAGE did Seth now reflect? (and where is Cain mentioned)
    But here is what we are after! Adam died at NINE HUNDRED AND THIRTY YEARS. Sounds GIANT/LIKE to me! (REMEMBER, if it had not been for satans yarn, Adam would NEVER HAVE DIED!)

    And Seth? v.8. 912 yrs! And Enos in v. 11? 905 yrs.! Verse 17, 20, & 24, we find MORE GIANTS BEFORE THE FLOOD! 895 yrs.! 962 yrs! And yes this GIANT in verse 22 was Enoch who was TRANSLATED without 'growing much shorter'! :) And then comes his son OF GOD in verse 27, that of Methuselah who died at 969 yrs. old!

    Now what did sin do to ALL of satans 'giants'?? Notice after the FLOOD as recorded in Gen. 10:32 as seen in Gen. 11, starting with verse 10 on.
    600 yrs? 435 yrs? 433? 464? 239? 230? 230? 148? And try Abraham in Gen. 25-7-8? He died at 175 yrs.! (and us today/pray tell?)

    Can satan create? All of 'h'is stuff deteriorates ALL & EVERYTHING THAT IT TOUCHES! ---P/N/B/
     
  9. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Andrew,

    Yes, I was referring to your website.  I read it and found it interesting.  While it makes sense, and this is the explanation I've heard most of my life I still have the questions. 

    What would be the purpose of God creating angels to pro-create?  And, since they are known to be all men, then if God created them to have sex, how could they satisfy those desires in a righteous manner? 

    Thanks Andrew.

     
     
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    Quaffie,

    quote: "What would be the purpose of God creating angels to pro-create?Ê And, since they are known to be all men, then if God created them toÊhave sex, how could they satisfy those desires in a righteous manner?"

    In the first place, no one is saying that God created angels to pro-create. He didn't. That's why some of the verses I gave in the article says that they left their domain/crossed the line/boundary and took on physical form to pro-create. God stopped them, first thru the flood then thru the Israeli army like David. And now these spirits are bound in chains awaiting judgement.

    Jude 1:6
    6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

    1 Peter 3:19,20
    19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
    20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

    2 Peter 2:4
    4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

    Can angels take on physical form? I believe so cos there's a verse in the NT that says "some have entertained angels unawares". How can one be unaware that he's talking to an angel if the angel was in some shinning spirit form? Obviously, the angel wld have to look and feel like a human in order for one to be "unaware".

    again, I'm not going to be dogmatic abt this cos its just an interesting topic. But the 'theory' i wont accept is that these "sons of god" in Gen 6 were just ordinary humans and that the giants just happened to be unusually tall people (note the tallest human that ever lived was 8'11". Goliath was more than 9 ft & King OG prob 10'+). To me it takes more faith to believe that.

    :)
     
  11. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, Angels do not reproduce themselves. Even if they did, they could not reproduce a earthly body. Only that which is of the earth can reproduce itself.

    Even in nature, as the Bible says, animals can only reproduce after their kind. Dogs with dogs, cats with cats, but a dog and a cat can not reproduce.

    So if there are animals of this earth, that can not reproduce with each other. How much more can something of this earth, not reproduce with something that was of Heaven.

     
     
  12. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    "Exactly, Angels do not reproduce themselves. Even if they did, they could not reproduce a earthly body. Only that which is of the earth can reproduce itself. "

    I said their function, not their ability. A dog may not give birth to a cat but we're talking abt heavenly beings now, which science has not studied or fully comprehend. If the Bible says they did it with humans, i just take the Word for it. I dont really care how it was done.

    your argument above is interpreting the Bible from outside (worldly understnding/science) in. ie you use nature and science to explain a verse. it shld be the other way round, or you make the same mistake the Christian evolutionists make.
     
  13. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    That's just it Andrew, I'm not sure the Bible really does say it.  I know that's what the explanation is for that passage but my questions are what keeps me from fully accepting "that" explanation.  I know it's not a main issue and I don't want to make a big deal out of it either.  But those are questions I've always had. 

    I know that angels take physical form, and can participate in human activities,  but as to creating another living being . . .? :scratch:

    Thanks for your input bro.
     
  14. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Brother, I'm really not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but, I find myself pretty much ignoring your posts.

    1. you seem to be talking down to us

    2. you seem to be talking in riddles.

     :eek:   I'm a fairly intelligent person, but most the time, I don't understand what you are talking about.

     
     
  15. The reason you all don't understand what Andrew is saying is simply because you have No Desire to understand what he is saying; All you have done is given scientific and humanistic logic for why these things could never take place, after all it's physically impossible, is'nt it? Well, I would advise you all to stop leaning to your Own understanding and begin realizing that we are dealing with Supernatural events and like Andrew said we don't need to know (or want to) the mechanics of how it occurred; But I think at this point I will have to lay another monkey wrench into this mess: Listen careful--IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN REAL SOON!!!!
    Daniel chapter 2 presents to us an incredible prophecy of THE GREAT KINGDOM (1000 yr. Kingdom) that is "yet" to set up opon planet earth; vs. 22 Daniel says HE REVEALETH THE DEEP AND SECRET THINGS (that which most Christians cannot see): HE KNOWETH WHAT IS IN THE DARKNESS, AND THE LIGHT DWELLETH WITH HIM!!! 27--Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, THE SECRET which the king hath demanded CANNOT the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king; BUT THERE IS A GOD IN HEAVEN THAT REVEALETH SECRETS AND MAKETH KNOWN.......WHAT SHALL BE IN THE LATTER DAYS!! Now, Daniel goes on to interpret Nebuchadnezzar's dream; he tells him that the vision was of a great image, whose head was of gold, his breast and arms of silver, his belly and thighs of brass, his legs of iron, and his feet PART OF IRON AND PART OF CLAY!! (this image representing of course the 5 great ruling powers of the ages); **34--THOU SAWEST TILL THAT A "STONE" WAS CUT OUT "WITHOUT" HANDS, WHICH SMOTE THE IMAGE UPON HIS "FEET" THAT WERE "OF IRON & CLAY", AND BRAKE THEM TO PIECES!! 35--AND THE STONE THAT SMOTE THE IMAGE BECAME A GREAT MOUNTAIN, AND "FILLED" THE WHOLE EARTH!! Now watch the Tribulation context just prior to this COMING STONE in vs. 41--AND WHEREAS THOU SAWEST THE FEET AND TOES (10 NATION FEDERATION) PART OF IRON AND "PART" OF CLAY...FORASMUCH AS THOU "SAWEST" THE IRON "MIXED" WITH THE CLAY! 43--AND WHEREAS THOU SAWEST IRON MIXED WITH CLAY, "THEY" SHALL "MINGLE" THEMSELVES "WITH" THE "SEED OF MEN!!!!!!!!! 44--AND IN "THESE DAYS" (Daniels 70th week) SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM, WHICH SHALL NEVER BE DESTROYED!!!!!!! There it is, the same reason for GOD'S having to destroy the world by water in Gen 6, will be the same reason HE will have to destroy it by FIRE very shortly--IF ANY MAN HATH EARS TO HEAR LET HIM HEAR!!
     
  16. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

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    Sir,

    that is simply not true! I would not be asking questions if I did not want to understand.  I'll do some research on my own in regards to the scriputures you listed.  I listed the reasons why I question this teaching.  So, If you're able to answer, then please do so without making yourself appear to be more superior.

    Again, I mean no disrespect, but anyone in America can attach a title to their name.  That does not make them necessarily who they claim.

     :bow:
     
  17. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    -----------Deleated by Pastor N.B.------------
     
  18. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see, any port in a storm and any arguement to try and win a debate! Onward Christian soldiers.
     
  19. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    The legs and feet of iron signified the Roman empire. The Roman empire branched into ten kingdoms, as the toes of these feet. Some were weak as clay, others strong as iron.

    Endeavours have often been used to unite them, for strengthening the empire, but in vain.
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    Pastor Bob,

    I think Quaffie was refering to Pastor NB's style of writing. Like Quaff, I find it very hard to understnd his posts becos of the way he writes, -- like in riddles -- and all those CAPS and {}[] make it really difficult to understnd what's he's trying to say.

    I pretty much agree with your analysis that in the last days the same thing will basically happen, except that my church sees it from the angle of UFOs/abductions and human cloning.

    anyway, I'm pre-trib and believe I'll be pretty much outta here before all these really happens, where the beast is revealed etc....so i dont really 'care' abt the details....:)
     
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