Who are the rightful occupier's of the holy Land?

[Timtofly]

What would be the point of that time of restoration when it would result in a number of people as the sand of the sea rebelling against Christ (Rev 20:7-9)?

You are free to rebel. Why would they not be free to make the same choice you did?

 

[Timtofly]

Lol
I knew somebody would say that .

The Ministry of reconciliation ( restoration ) is already in effect.
Its given to you and me and everyone else here.


2Cor
16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one by the flesh; even though we have known Christ by the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.



Today is the day of salvation.

Gods patience with the world only extends to the second coming when the door is shut.


It is by Faith in the truth and sanctification by his Spirit , that one has salvation.


2Thess 2
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Restoration of all things happens the moment Jesus appears to perfect / restore us.
The moment Adam sinned tainted all things. Didnt take a thousand years either way.

How much sin and weeds did you eradicate today?

 

[Timtofly]

Josephus said the prophecy of Daniel 7 came to pass 408 years after it was given to Daniel.

The 490 years of Daniel 9 began during 457 BC, based on my understanding.

Yet even Artexerxes followed the decree of Darius. There could have been a gap between the first 49 years (Darius and rebuilding Jerusalem and the Temple) and the 434 years between Nehemiah and the birth of Christ.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You are free to rebel. Why would they not be free to make the same choice you did?

I never made the choice to rebel after experiencing 1000 years of peace on earth while seeing Christ in all His glory. Do you think you would rebel after having an experience like that? Who would want to give that up? Why would most people rebel in that situation? That is what you must believe since it says the number of them is "as the sand of the seashore" (Rev 20:8).

 

[Timtofly]

I ask those questions to make premils like yourself think about how nonsensical your belief actually is. Do you ever even think about the fact that you believe Jesus will come to the earth in all His glory and usher in a thousand year period of perfect peace on the earth only to somehow have a huge number of people rebel against Him after that? How does that scenario make any sense?

I don't object to anything God has planned. I object to your frequent misinterpretations of His plans.

So a plain reading is not God. God needs you all to give symbolic made up definitions of your choosing instead of God's Word?

 

[Timtofly]

I never made the choice to rebel after experiencing 1000 years of peace on earth while seeing Christ in all His glory. Do you think you would rebel after having an experience like that? Who would want to give that up? Why would most people rebel in that situation? That is what you must believe since it says the number of them is "as the sand of the seashore" (Rev 20:8).

I am not sure how you accept NOSAS, and cannot see how easy it would be to disobey God. I did not inspire God's Word. The Holy Spirit inspired John to claim a "sands of the sea" symbolism. Are you going to also question why a third of the Angels rebelled and declare the past cannot exist either? I personally have no desire to turn against God.

I certainly claim a lot of stuff that goes against human thought. I have no plans to start making claims that God is wrong about certain things.

 

[BABerean2]

So a plain reading is not God. God needs you all to give symbolic made up definitions of your choosing instead of God's Word?

If you can show us mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46, we might listen to your point of view. It is God's Word, and Christ's words.


.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So a plain reading is not God. God needs you all to give symbolic made up definitions of your choosing instead of God's Word?

You are purposely being ridiculous again. You have a bad habit of that. We all know that God's Word contains all different types of language including literal, figurative, symbolic, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, poetic and metaphorical. The book of Revelation undeniably contains a great deal of figurative, symbolic and/or metaphorical language. But, you think it should all be read literally? Let me know when you see a beast with seven heads and ten horns walking down your street because that's when we'll know things are really starting to happen.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I am not sure how you accept NOSAS, and cannot see how easy it would be to disobey God. I did not inspire God's Word. The Holy Spirit inspired John to claim a "sands of the sea" symbolism. Are you going to also question why a third of the Angels rebelled and declare the past cannot exist either? I personally have no desire to turn against God.

I certainly claim a lot of stuff that goes against human thought. I have no plans to start making claims that God is wrong about certain things.

I, of course, am not claiming that God is wrong. I'm claiming that you are. You're comparing a scenario where a third of the angels rebelled to a scenario where a vast majority of humans rebel. Is that equivalent?

If you think your view makes sense, so be it. I don't believe it does at all. What do you believe is the purpose of the thousand years of peace if the result of it is most people rebelling against Christ despite being with Him in all His glory for all that time?

 

[Timtofly]

If you can show us mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46, we might listen to your point of view. It is God's Word, and Christ's words.

The Trumpets of Revelation cover this judgment, and Christ is on the earth for this judgment. It is a process, not a 20 second event. At the end of the 7th Trumpet, none of Adam's flesh and blood remain in their current state. Death is a judgment. Physical death has decided an ongoing judgment since Adam. We can see that souls before Christ were sent to sheol, and there was a distinction between those in torment, and those in Abraham's bosom. Now since Christ, many have entered Paradise. There has not been a wait for judgment when it comes to physically dying in knowing one's ultimate judgment at the GWT.

The words of Jesus can only be taken, that when Christ comes in person, He will deal with living humans. He does not resurrect any dead ones in this text. John points out in Revelation that at the end of the 7th Trumpet all humanity will be dead.

The issue is not with me. The issue is false teachers adding or implying something totally different with the text, ie it is over in 20 seconds. Also there is wheat and tares, and these are not the same humans as the sheep and goats. And the church is also none of the above, and not even mentioned in these verses. Since no one is alive at the end of the 7th Trumpet, being alive is the least of concern in your eschatology. It is the 6 years of Tribulation and Reign of Christ for 1000 years, that you try to force into these verses to prove your eschatology, no?

 

[Timtofly]

You are purposely being ridiculous again. You have a bad habit of that. We all know that God's Word contains all different types of language including literal, figurative, symbolic, hyperbolic, apocalyptic, poetic and metaphorical. The book of Revelation undeniably contains a great deal of figurative, symbolic and/or metaphorical language. But, you think it should all be read literally? Let me know when you see a beast with seven heads and ten horns walking down your street because that's when we'll know things are really starting to happen.

Yet your ridiculous accusation works how against a plain reading?

All eschatology has the Second Coming in the wrong location because of a plain reading, and I am the one who is ridiculous? Christ comes to earth at the battle of Armageddon. That is a plain reading. You claim that has to be the Second Coming, but surely it cannot be when Satan is bound for 1000 years. Why not? Do you then get to symbolize a plain reading and make it say something you choose, only because it makes carnal sense? Then you make ridiculous excuses, about symbolism?

Unfortunately we are too close to the end to see it clearly. Even if a war broke out and almost 2 billion people die, some would still deny this cannot be the end. Only the Second Coming as a thief in the night, will remove all spiritual blindness. Then it will be too late to do anything about it. The signs are happening now.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yet your ridiculous accusation works how against a plain reading?

Because a plain, literal interpretation results in contradicting other scripture. We've already been over that.

All eschatology has the Second Coming in the wrong location because of a plain reading, and I am the one who is ridiculous?

What do you mean by this?

Christ comes to earth at the battle of Armageddon. That is a plain reading.

It is? Show me exactly where it says that then.

You claim that has to be the Second Coming, but surely it cannot be when Satan is bound for 1000 years. Why not? Do you then get to symbolize a plain reading and make it say something you choose, only because it makes carnal sense? Then you make ridiculous excuses, about symbolism?

Is there no symbolism in the book of Revelation? Is that what you're trying to say?

 

[Timtofly]

I, of course, am not claiming that God is wrong. I'm claiming that you are. You're comparing a scenario where a third of the angels rebelled to a scenario where a vast majority of humans rebel. Is that equivalent?

If you think your view makes sense, so be it. I don't believe it does at all. What do you believe is the purpose of the thousand years of peace if the result of it is most people rebelling against Christ despite being with Him in all His glory for all that time?

It does not say most people. That is your private interpretation.

Even if it is most people, we see that pattern throughout history, no?

What I am pointing out, is that death is rare (the only means of punishment for rebellion). Any who rebel at any moment of the 1000 years are instantly Dead. There are no prisons or court systems. These are not programmed robots. All living humans even Adam has one command that is not sin, but rebellion. Moses disobeyed God one time. Samson cut his hair, one time. It only takes one time to rebel, and these humans still have that choice. That they can do it in God's presence, which BTW, nothing is done outside of God's presence. We just think God is not present. That we think we can get away with it, is not the point, at any time in history, including a physical rule of Christ on earth. We do have examples of perfect beings in God's presence, who choose their own path and not God's. That is rebellion.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It does not say most people. That is your private interpretation.

No, I'm sure I'm not the only one to interpret it that way. Common sense says that a number of people as the sand of the sea surrounding "the camp of the saints" means that there are more rebels than there are people in "the camp of the saints".

Even if it is most people, we see that pattern throughout history, no?

There has never been a situation in history comparable to 1000 years of peace on earth with Jesus Christ Himself in all His glory on the earth.

What I am pointing out, is that death is rare (the only means of punishment for rebellion). Any who rebel at any moment of the 1000 years are instantly Dead.

Where does it say that?

 

[Timtofly]

No, I'm sure I'm not the only one to interpret it that way. Common sense says that a number of people as the sand of the sea surrounding "the camp of the saints" means that there are more rebels than there are people in "the camp of the saints".

There has never been a situation in history comparable to 1000 years of peace on earth with Jesus Christ Himself in all His glory on the earth.

Where does it say that?

Yet it does not say every one on earth is in this march. There are billions waiting in their homes over the whole earth waiting for the outcome. You make it sound like every one, but this central city rebels. That is not a given in the text.


Of course there has. The first 1000 years during God's Day of rest. That was the first Day with the Lord. Then Adam caused 6 Days of labor, apart from the Lord.


The "rod of iron" is defined by many amil. It is instant Death. The very reason they reject a millennium. All are dead, no?

 

[jeffweedaman]

How can any claim restoration is going on now? The Atonement is what is happening now. The restoration is still future.

No restoration without atonement, and a whole lot of grace and patience as the gospel is preached to all tribes.
God is patient NOW not wanting any to perish when Jesus actually comes.
Today is the day to repent and put your Faith in him and the word he has already spoken.

What else can Jesus say or do to save those who are found to have rejected his words when he appears a second time??
They cannot put their faith in him anymore can they....so they indeed perish. The word he has already spoken will judge the rejecters on the last day.
Jn 12

 

[BABerean2]

The Trumpets of Revelation cover this judgment, and Christ is on the earth for this judgment. It is a process, not a 20 second event. At the end of the 7th Trumpet, none of Adam's flesh and blood remain in their current state. Death is a judgment. Physical death has decided an ongoing judgment since Adam. We can see that souls before Christ were sent to sheol, and there was a distinction between those in torment, and those in Abraham's bosom. Now since Christ, many have entered Paradise. There has not been a wait for judgment when it comes to physically dying in knowing one's ultimate judgment at the GWT.

The words of Jesus can only be taken, that when Christ comes in person, He will deal with living humans. He does not resurrect any dead ones in this text. John points out in Revelation that at the end of the 7th Trumpet all humanity will be dead.

The issue is not with me. The issue is false teachers adding or implying something totally different with the text, ie it is over in 20 seconds. Also there is wheat and tares, and these are not the same humans as the sheep and goats. And the church is also none of the above, and not even mentioned in these verses. Since no one is alive at the end of the 7th Trumpet, being alive is the least of concern in your eschatology. It is the 6 years of Tribulation and Reign of Christ for 1000 years, that you try to force into these verses to prove your eschatology, no?

The Final Judgment (subtitle from eSword)


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


.

 

[keras]

The Final Judgment (subtitle from eSword)

Jesus will Judge the nations at His Return.
This is not the final GWT Judgment of every individual. So Matthew 25:46 does not happen at that time.
We are told when it does. Revelation 20:11-15

Can you accept correction? Do you 'search the scriptures, as your name implies? Or are you so intransigent that any change to your beliefs is impossible.

BTW, I have yet to see anyone here seriously address the OP. Why not?

 

[Timtofly]

No restoration without atonement, and a whole lot of grace and patience as the gospel is preached to all tribes.
God is patient NOW not wanting any to perish when Jesus actually comes.
Today is the day to repent and put your Faith in him and the word he has already spoken.

What else can Jesus say or do to save those who are found to have rejected his words when he appears a second time??
They cannot put their faith in him anymore can they....so they indeed perish. The word he has already spoken will judge the rejecters on the last day.
Jn 12

How does the Atonement apply to the physical condition of the earth itself? Do we still have a sin nature and is evil still known? This is the physical restoration. Atonement is the salvation of one's soul. Without it, one spends forever in the lake of fire.

 

[timothyu]

How does the Atonement apply to the physical condition of the earth itself? Do we still have a sin nature and is evil still known? This is the physical restoration. Atonement is the salvation of one's soul. Without it, one spends forever in the lake of fire.

According to the Encyclpaedia Judaica, Jews believed that atonement for a life of sins was simply death