Who are the GREEDY?

[KitKatMatt]

I can't really get much further with you than what I've already said.

I think people have the right to, and are entitled to:

Heathy food.
Clean water.
Shelter.
Access to public transportation.
Access to public information.
Free/cheap education.
Free/cheap healthcare.

I think they have a right to/are entitled to these things simply by existing. I think no human should be denied these things for any reason.

And... that's it, really.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I can't really get much further with you than what I've already said.

I think people have the right to, and are entitled to:

Heathy food.
Clean water.
Shelter.
Access to public transportation.
Access to public information.
Free/cheap education.
Free/cheap healthcare.

I think they have a right to/are entitled to these things simply by existing. I think no human should be denied these things for any reason.

And... that's it, really.

In order for what needs to be done to bring this idea to fruition there would have to be much more selfless people than there are in the world. There are those who control things and there are those who control people and these types of people will never get along because they would have to share their power and that's never going to happen.

 

[KitKatMatt]

I don't think that's a good enough reason to stop trying, though.

I think people are inherently good and selfless. I think it's just a matter of getting enough of those people aware and together to make the changes we really need.

 

[TerranceL]

I kind of thought it was a given that I support the government paying for all of these things by taxation.

So your entitlement is to others money not others labor?

 

[KitKatMatt]

So your entitlement is to others money not others labor?

I don't understand what you're asking.

People are entitled to all the things (and I'm probably forgetting something on that list) that I listed. These can be funded by higher taxes, which I support.

 

[TerranceL]

I don't understand what you're asking.

People are entitled to all the things (and I'm probably forgetting something on that list) that I listed. These can be funded by higher taxes, which I support.

People are only entitled to what they can pay for.

Otherwise you are expecting others to pay for you, or expecting others to work for free.

Nobody is entitled to the work or money of others.

 

[KitKatMatt]

People are only entitled to what they can pay for.

Otherwise you are expecting others to pay for you, or expecting others to work for free.

Nobody is entitled to the work or money of others.

So if I don't make enough money to pay for my health insurance or medication, I deserve to not be treated by a doctor or deserve to suffer and possibly die? I will suffer and possibly die if I can't buy my expensive medication.

Tax dollars funding things like healthcare and paying doctors who provide it is "expecting others to work for free"? Hmm, we have a different definition of "free" then.

Everyone is entitled to basic necessities, and those who provide them should receive reimbursement for providing them (that's where the tax dollars go, to fund the system).

I don't get what's so hard about this? If you don't agree that people should receive basic necessities then that's your thing, but people won't be forced to "work for free". That makes no sense.

 

[morningstar2651]

Are you aware that there are no working examples of socialism?

What about Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands, and Sweden? Does the working Nordic model not count?

 

[morningstar2651]

The problem is the system. In the UK doctors can be paid well, and patients don't have to pay anything directly. All people pay (though taxes) for a healthy, productive, and fair society.

In the video game industry, the most profitable market right now is mobile games. More specifically, free to play mobile games. Crossy Road made $10 million in 90 days, took 6 weeks to develop, and you can download it and play it for free.

I'm just going to let that sink in - in 90 days they made more money than most people make in their lifetime by giving their product to consumers for free.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

So if I don't make enough money to pay for my health insurance or medication, I deserve to not be treated by a doctor or deserve to suffer and possibly die? I will suffer and possibly die if I can't buy my expensive medication.

Tax dollars funding things like healthcare and paying doctors who provide it is "expecting others to work for free"? Hmm, we have a different definition of "free" then.

Everyone is entitled to basic necessities, and those who provide them should receive reimbursement for providing them (that's where the tax dollars go, to fund the system).

I don't get what's so hard about this? If you don't agree that people should receive basic necessities then that's your thing, but people won't be forced to "work for free". That makes no sense.

Making someone else pay for someone else's service is making the person pay work for free.

If I work and make 300 dollars for 8 hours of work, and then I have to use that 300 hundreds to pay for someone to see a doctor, I worked for free so I can pay for someone else's service. I.E. taxes.

If I make 300 dollars an hour, and the government taxed me 300 dollars so I can pay for your service, I still worked an hour for free.

If you are getting SOMETHING FOR FREE, SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR IT, THAT IS THE SAME AS HAVING THE PERSON WHO PAID WORK FOR FREE.

 

[KitKatMatt]

If I work and make 300 dollars for 8 hours of work, and then I have to use that 300 hundreds to pay for someone to see a doctor, I worked for free so I can pay for someone else's service. I.E. taxes.

Wait, are you saying I, or anyone else, is advocating for a 100% tax rate?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Some people ask me, "Hey, why don't you take conservatives in America seriously?"

"Well," says I, "I might be more inclined to take conservatives in America more seriously if they managed to say things that were either moral or sensible, but since they do neither, I am inclined to not take them seriously."

And with the passage of time I find American conservatism becoming increasingly the voice of gross immorality, barbarism, and irrationality.

As both a Christian and a lover of civilization I cannot in good conscience take modern American conservatism seriously except as a threat against human dignity and--as it attempts to misappropriate my religion--a hostile threat against the Christian faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

Wait, are you saying I, or anyone else, is advocating for a 100% tax rate?

It doesn't have to be 100%, you could be forcing someone to work 10% of the time for free so you can get healthcare.

The point is, you getting something is basically just forcing someone else to do something for free. If it's not the doctor you are seeing, it's the person who is paying for you to see that doctor.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Um, but they'd also be getting the healthcare if they qualified? And if we were to switch to socialized medicine, it would be paying for their own healthcare anyways?

(Shhh, I don't mean to alarm you, but if you live in the USA your tax dollars are being taken RIGHT NOW to pay for healthcare for the elderly and disabled.)

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Um, but they'd also be getting the healthcare if they qualified? And if we were to switch to socialized medicine, it would be paying for their own healthcare anyways?

(Shhh, I don't mean to alarm you, but if you live in the USA your tax dollars are being taken RIGHT NOW to pay for healthcare for the elderly and disabled.)

And to bomb poor countries! No one minds their tax dollars being taken to pay for the military... And who woulda thought that soldiers work for free?!

Here I thought they were being payed by our tax dollars but I guess that's not how taxes work, according to most in this thread...

 

[Reep]

Our current healthcare system is broken and we're lagging behind other countries. The single payer system in Canada outperforms the American system, both financially and in terms of outcomes, and has bipartisan support. There aren't any convincing arguments that our current system is preferable.

Never use our (Canada's) healthcare system as an example of being even remotely good or better than anything.
It's horribly broken and we pay a fortune in taxes for subpar service. Many Canadian's who live near the border will cross over for faster and better service.

Oh sure it's nice to be able to walk into a doctors office when you are sick and not pay a dime out of pocket at that time. But the second he prescribes you anything look out. A few months ago I felt horrible and went to the doctor. For just one week of medication it cost me almost $100. I feel bad for those who are on medications regularly up here.

I'm not saying taxpayer funded healthcare is bad either. It works well in many European countries. I believe France has the best model with a two tier system (public & private). Just Canada is a horrible example.

 

[whatbogsends]

It doesn't have to be 100%, you could be forcing someone to work 10% of the time for free so you can get healthcare.

The point is, you getting something is basically just forcing someone else to do something for free. If it's not the doctor you are seeing, it's the person who is paying for you to see that doctor.

You don't seem to understand free. It wouldn't be "working 10% of the time for free" it would be "working 100% of the time for 90%", or even more accurately "working 100% of the time for 100% and paying 10% in taxes".

My income tax rate is probably between 30-35%. I don't "work for free" at my job, i simply pay taxes on what i earn. There are plenty of government programs that i'd prefer my tax dollars not support, but we don't get a line item veto on government spending.

 

[morningstar2651]

You don't work for free, why should a doctor?

He shouldn't unless he chooses to do so.

We currently have a system where customers don't typically pay for healthcare - they pay for insurance and their insurance pays for their healthcare. The doctor still gets paid and the patient receives treatment despite not being able to afford the high price tag of the treatment.

As a nation, we spend a lot more on healthcare than other nations for a system that fails a lot of people who can't afford healthcare. I'm middle class, but I grew up working class and I have working class friends who are underemployed and have the bare minimum insurance. One of my working class friends broke a tooth a couple months ago. It's infected now. He can't afford to see a dentist and he can't afford dental insurance.

Like I said before - in this framing of the healthcare industry, the greedy ones are the insurance companies.

• Doctors profit when patients need and use their services. It's in the doctor's best interest for the patient to receive the treatment they need.
• Insurance companies profit when people need but do not use their services. It's in the insurance company's best interest for the patient to never receive the treatment they need.

 

[morningstar2651]

They all want five year's experience, no less.

Is this an industry where you can do freelance work on the side and spin it as experience?

 

[morningstar2651]

In order for what needs to be done to bring this idea to fruition there would have to be much more selfless people than there are in the world. There are those who control things and there are those who control people and these types of people will never get along because they would have to share their power and that's never going to happen.

Or the government would have to intervene to ensure that this system functions.