Pre-Trib Only Who are the 24 Elders?

[bibletruth469]

Who are the 24 Elders in Revelation? I used to believe they represented the raptured church in rev 4, however if the book is written chronologically, how can the first 5 seals be broken already? I thought that the rapture would happen at the 6 th seal during the great earthquake Also, notice that the elders are dressed in white and wearing crowns. They can't be angels because they do not wear crowns. Looking for various pre trib' views. Thanks

 

[Straightshot]

They are a part of the immortals of the Lord's true ecclesia [Revelation 4:4; 5:10; 7:9-17]

All are there together .... before the tribulation begins [note the interaction between the two groups]

The same are noted again as the tribulation plays out upon the earth [11:1; 13:6; 17:4; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones .... symbol of the Lord's government]]

Who are the 24 exactly .... we are not told

I would think that the 12 apostles will be .... even Peter himself

The others ? .... possibly some out of the group of the patriarchs and prophets of Israel

 

[classicalhero]

Bes guesses are that they are the 12 Apostles and the 12 sons of Israel. But the Bible doesn't say and quite frankly we shouldn't really worry too much who they are.

 

[Straightshot]

Agreed classic

 

[interpreter]

I believe that the 24 elders on thrones represent 24 Christian nations that Jesus rules the world through in the glorious 1000-year reign of the Church, which I believe is coming soon. If so, the 24 thrones are probably the 23 Christian nations now in NATO plus one more, probably Serbia.

 

[Steve Petersen]

This is the heavenly equivalent of the 24 representatives of the nation who would be present at the Temple.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_13998.html

 

[yeshuasavedme]

redid

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Talk posting using Siri on a little phone window caused a lot of errors in first post, so I had to open big computer to correct and so, I re-posted this...

I believe that they are those perfected in spirit soul and body, raptured with Christ, "First of Firstfruits", whom Christ raptured the bodies of, in regenerated form, when He rose from the dead as the sun set three days and three nights after He Descended into Sheol, taking all our sins and iniquities which were laid on His soul, to "ascribe them to Azazel"....as the finished, once for all, "Acceptable Atonement".
He gathered them – raised them up from their graves in their bodies –to fulfill the oracle of "the First of First Fruits", so as to present them as the wave offering in the temple in heaven, mid- morning, on the first, first day of the week after Passover.
That is the Oracle of the Law that teaches us about the why, the when, and the for what reason, the 24 elders are seen seated on thrones and crowned with the crown of Life and ruling in heaven, with Christ.


This was the fulfillment of the Living Oracle of "First of Firstfruits", which had been rehearsed as the Oracle of the resurrection of the dead, with Christ, in perfected bodies, with born again spirits, and cleansed by the blood souls.

The Scriptures do not tell us how many Christ raised from the dead who came out of their graves and walked about the city and were seen of many when He rose, but it tells us why he raised them and where he took them to and for why, in the living oracles – "the Law"..
There they remain, and we see 24 seated on thrones crowned with the crown of life, which is also Oracled in the Law.
There are probably more of them, and the seven angels who come out of the temple with the bowls of wrath to pour out on the earth in the tribulation are dressed as the righteous Saints ruling with Christ and are probably more of them.

One of those angels however, is in the Prophet Enoch, the seventh from Adam who was translated to glory before the flood to rule with the watchers – by his own testimony. That one who told John that he was a fellow prophet and a brethren – human being like him, who showed John things to come is, in my studied opinion, "Enoch", for it is Enoch who has read all the tablets of the Scripture of Truth written in heaven, by his own testimony, and knows all things that are written that are to come upon all the sons of Adam, until the end – by his own written record.

 

[bibletruth469]

You could be right. The 24 Elders may very well be those that were raised and walked with Christ after His resurrection. They would be the first fruits and are wearing white and having crowns. So, do you think that these people are separate than the raptured church? Did their resurrection and glorified bodies occur at Christ's ascension? I do not think that scripture lets us know for sure, however, this interpretation does make sense and it fits with Revelation's timeline.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You could be right. The 24 Elders may very well be those that were raised and walked with Christ after His resurrection. They would be the first fruits and are wearing white and having crowns. So, do you think that these people are separate than the raptured church? Did their resurrection and glorified bodies occur at Christ's ascension? I do not think that scripture lets us know for sure, however, this interpretation does make sense and it fits with Revelation's timeline.

No, I don't think they are "separate" in the sense that they are the perfected saints in Jerusalem above, spoken of in Scripture, which we are who are cleansed in souls and perfected in the spirit of adoption are promised to be "perfected in body" when we are regenerated at the resurrection of it or transformation of it at the rapture- if alive and remaining....
They just got it in the first stage of the first resurrection "to Life", and we get it in the second stage, and the gleanings after the tribulation is ended get it in the third stage; and then the First resurrection is ended and no more bodies of flesh will ever be buried in the earth [Isaiah 26:19-25] for the entire thousand year reign, but those who live their "day" out who inherit the "kingdom of God come on earth" at the return of the LORD of Glory to reign, will be translated like Enoch was, and like every soul born in Adam would have been, so as to "Plant the heavens" as the temple not made with hands for the Glory to indwell, if Adam had not died in spirit and been irrevocably corrupted in flesh [which is why we must be born again, in Spirit and in flesh]; and like the living saints will be when Jesus calls for the gathering together of them before the tribulation can begin.

We are going into Canada tomorrow, and I don't think I can post anymore [no data for Canada, and wifi in public is not so safe because of risk ofhacking] and I am supposed to be busy wrapping up details for the trip....
Interesting to read this when I get back...

 

[Ranting]

Its the raptured church !!! nothing really more to say. Enjoy

 

[Berean777]

...

 

[bibletruth469]

Its the raptured church !!! nothing really more to say. Enjoy

Could you please elaborate on your reply? I need some verses that show your conclusion. The 24 Elders as the raptured church is the mainstream pretribulation view. I am trying to study Revelation in a more detailed way now. I do not just want to believe a certain viewpoint just because everyone else believes that way. Why do you and others come to that conclusion?

 

[Dave Watchman]

The 24 Elders as the raptured church is the mainstream pretribulation view. I am trying to study Revelation in a more detailed way now. I do not just want to believe a certain viewpoint just because everyone else believes that way. Why do you and others come to that conclusion?

In the OP you said that you wanted Pre Trib views.

Rant gave you the "Pre Trib" answer:

Its the raptured church !!! nothing really more to say. Enjoy

Now you say that you're trying to study Revelation in a more detailed way and that you do not just want to believe a certain "viewpoint" just because everyone else believes that way.

So which is it? Am I allowed to post on a Pre Trib Tag as long as I don't argue against the doctrine of it?

As for me and my house, we want the "viewpoint" of truth. And I don't care if the uncovering of truth has to come from 24 different sources including the Pre Trib "viewpoint", the book of Enoch or the duTillet version of Matthew.

We're never going to know the answer to the 24 Elder question until we meet at the rapture,that's the truth, all we can do now is to speculate. Why would God mention them in Revelation, why would He want us to know that they are there? They always seem to be right around the center of the action every time they're mentioned.

There's only one reason that I can think of why God would require the presence of 24 ex human Elders in Heaven's Temple. The SDA Church figured out that Daniel 8's 2300 years conclude in 1844 with the "the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state". That's the cleansing of Heaven's Temple which is when Jesus opens the books of record and begins the first phase of judging the dead. Considering Moses' 2 or more witness rule, I imagine millions of angelic onlookers AND 24 ex human beings should more than satisfy that requirement.

Jesus told His disciples in Luke 22:

"I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom,
and you will sit on thrones judging the "twelve tribes" of Israel"​

Notice James' introductions at the beginning of his first 2 chapters from the NIV:

James 1:

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:Greetings"​

James 2:

"My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism"​

I believe that the "twelve tribes" of Israel have been redefined as "believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ"

So with these 24 individuals needing to be there no latter than 1844, (I think 1798), it would not violate John's statement in the 1st century:

"No one has ascended into heaven except He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man"​

Lets let the Lord pick first before we estimate who else could possibly be added after the 12 disciples and these three men:

"Son of man, if a country sins against Me by committing unfaithfulness, and I stretch out My hand against it, destroy its supply of bread, send famine against it and cut off from it both man and beast, even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord GOD"​

1) NOAH
2) DANIEL
3) JOB
4) ENOCH
5) ABRAHAM
6) DAVID
7) SOLOMON
8) ISAIAH
9) JEREMIAH
10) EZEKIEL
11) JONAH
12) JOHN
13) MATTHIAS (REPLACED JUDAS ISCARIOT)
14) SIMON PETER
15) ANDREW
16) JAMES THE GREATER
17) JAMES THE LESS
18) MATTHEW
19) PHILIP
20) BARTHOLOMEW
21) THOMAS
22) THADDAEUS
23) SIMON THE ZEALOT
24) PAUL

I bet they're also going to be witnesses to the judgment of the living during the tribulation and that job will end at the 7th trumpet of Revelation 11:

​

"And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying"

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
who is and who was,
for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign.
The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,​

both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”
​

nothing really more to say except,
Have a peaceful rest of the Sabbath, Enjoy

 

[Ranting]

There are five crowns that only the Church gets ! In heaven and only the church or should I say the Bride of Christ ! So in Rev that the 24 throw their crowns this can only be the CHURCH! Enjoy

 

[Ranting]

As you see Rev is a progression of the end times a 5 year old can understand this but some really smart people cant!

 

[Ranting]

1) NOAH
2) DANIEL
3) JOB
4) ENOCH
5) ABRAHAM
6) DAVID
7) SOLOMON
8) ISAIAH
9) JEREMIAH
10) EZEKIEL
11) JONAH
12) JOHN
13) MATTHIAS (REPLACED JUDAS ISCARIOT)
14) SIMON PETER
15) ANDREW
16) JAMES THE GREATER
17) JAMES THE LESS
18) MATTHEW
19) PHILIP
20) BARTHOLOMEW
21) THOMAS
22) THADDAEUS
23) SIMON THE ZEALOT
24) PAUL>>> No the bible says only the bride of Christ gets crown!> The Raptured Church, Enjoy

 

[Ranting]

1 - CROWN 1 - CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS— LOVED THE LORD'S APPEARING - 2 Tim 4:8 2 - CROWN 2 - INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN— DISCIPLINED BODIES / SELF-CONTROL - 1 Cor 9:25-27 3 - CROWN 3 - CROWN OF LIFE— ENDURED PATIENTLY THRU TRIALS - James 1:12, Rev 2:10 4 - CROWN 4 - CROWN OF GLORY— GODLY LEADERS WHO WERE EXAMPLES TO FLOCK - 1 Pet 5:2-4 5 - CROWN 5 - CROWN OF REJOICING— SOUL WINNERS CROWN - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3

 

[Ranting]

No one else gets crowns in Heaven then the raptured Church! Enjoy