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Who are AUTHORIZED messengers of God?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by edpobre, Jul 14, 2001.

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  1. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    Who are AUTHORIZED messengers of God?

    AUTHORIZED messengers of God are preachers SENT by God who DELIVER messages FROM [/b ]God. Only messages that come God can turn on the power to become children of God.

    The Catholic Church claims she is the true church by papal succession from Peter and as such, her priests are alleged to be messengers of God. Most Protestant Churches claim apostolic succession and as such, their pastors are alleged to be messengers of God. Some Protestant Churches who imagine themselves as non-denominational claim their founders are prophets and as such, their pastors are alleged to be messengers of God.

    Can their claim stand against the Word of God? How can we test if someone from any these churches is truly an authorized messenger of God?

    The Bible tells us that a "fellow servant, and of the brethren is one that has the TESTIMONY oOF JESUS: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.” (Rev. 19:10). What prophecy did Jesus cite to testify that he was indeed sent by God? Luke 6:16-21 records the account where Jesus was handed the book of the prophets and read what prophet Isaiah prophesied about him. Then he told them "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing." Does any of these so-called messengers of God have this spirit of prophecy?

    The Bible also tells us that "if they speak not according to this word (meaning the word of God), it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20). The Living Bible Version of Isaiah 8:20 is more blunt. It says: "Check these witches' words against the Word of God!" he says. "If their messages are different than mine, it is because I have not sent then; for they have no light or truth in them."

    Therefore, anyone who truly desires to acquire the right or power to become a child of God (John 1:12) must be very careful in receiving (Matt. 10:40) anyone who claims to be a messenger of God. A messenger that is not sent by God brings false messages that can only lead to eternal destruction.

    These so-called messengers of God must be tested against the law and the testimony.

    First, test their doctrines against the doctrine of God. Remember 2 John 9 where it says: "whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God..."

    Next, test their testimony. Do they have the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy? There are those who claim that they are prophets. But remember what God said to Moses in Deut. 18:20 -22 NIV:

    "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, he must be put to death."

    "You may say to yourselves. "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?"

    "If what a prophet proclaims in name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptously. Do not be afraid of him."

    Ed
     
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  2. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican


    Anyone who has a message from. God gives you a message to share.. you share it.



    That is the power of the Holy Spirit. With the help of the Holy Spirit, and p[rayer, you can tell, both by that and the fruits of the person giving the message, if they are of God, and that the messaage is genuine.



    And I hate to say it, but you are failing the test, accoridng to scripture... ;)
     
  3. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    ZoneChaos,

    Self-serving statements like yours cannot make one an authorized messenger of God.

    And you cannot benefit others by the way you respond to the post. You show scripture to refute what I am saying and let others decide.

    Ed
     
  4. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican


    Just to let you know... "them's fightin' words" ;)



    Using the verse you quoted above, Any Christian fits this criteria, for all Christians are brothers in Christ, and is of the bretheren of the church.



    Frankly, why would He need to cite them, if He himself fullfilled them. His actions cited the prophecies through fulfillment.



    As far as the examples above that you use.. I agree! And what I sadi below is inline with that, self-serving as it may appear (j/k).

    You asked, how can we know if what someone claims to be from God, is in fact form God. You answer your own question.. you just do it in a very complex way. The simple answer is what I stated below.

    Did it come from God? if so then believe it!

    How do we know it came from God? Well, does it align iwth scripture? and what does the Holy Spirit tell you?



    The reason I say you are failing your own tests, is becasue of this statement above. It sounds very new age... Perhaps you did not mean it that way, and if not that is fine. Just be clear and understand that there is no process to salvation. no works or steps to "becoming" a Child of God. The progress (or path) of a Christian begins after he is a Child of God and already redeeemed and set free.


     
  5. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    ZoneChaos,



    You wouldn't believe it Zone but false Christians outnumber true Christians 1 million to 1!



    Your question is legitimate Zone. However, the truth that Jesus felt the need to cite the prophecy about him which he came to fullfill proves that the Spirit of Prophecy is a much more reliable testimony than actions.



    I'm glad you agree!

    You wrote:


    Not true Zone. Before one is redeemed, there are steps that need to be taken. First of all, you must be given the right to become a son of God (John 1:12). And redemption is an important step before one becomes a son of God (Gal. 4:4-5).

    Ed
     
  6. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Not true Zone. Before one is redeemed, there are steps that need to be taken. First of all, you must be given the right to become a son of God (John 1:12). And redemption is an important step before one becomes a son of God (Gal. 4:4-5)."

    This is NOT true. To be redeemed there is only one step and that is true faith. Anything else is not biblical at all. John clearly says that in several verses from which I have quoted..you want me to get them again? Galatians also clearly says that it is grace by faith we are saved..that's it!
     
  7. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    Actually, Louis, this:



    is true (the part in bold). Of course, what Ed's been missing all along is that we were given the right to become a child of God when Jesus died on the cross to pay for everyman's sin. There is no need to get a separate special dispensation to become a child of God. We must be drawn by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit draws all men unto Him. So, again, it's correct, it just wasn't finished! :)
     
  8. zamar

    zamar Guest

    +0
    What Ed needs to do is complete a word search of the word "whosoever"
    How many times is it used?
    Who is he speaking to?
    What is Jesus speaking about?

    The Gospel is much more open than he believes.

    He will find that his ratio of 1 million to 1 (false to true) is incorrect and as a result he has disqualified himself with his false statement.

    Z
     
  9. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican


    A "False Christian" as you put it... are not Christians.. they do not enter into this equation. So, my original statement still stands.. Rev. 19:10 applies to all Christians.

    Now, if the reason for all your posts is aimed at False Christians only, then I can begin to understand where you are coming from.

    It seems to me that you both argue for and against the Christian Faith at times.



    I am not saying it was a bad thing, I am just saying that His life, and Prophetic fulfillment was more than enough for my Salvation. ;)



    Can you lay this steps out in Chronological order, also stating the average timne between steps, so that we can justify them as actual "sperate steps" in the Salvation Process?
     
  10. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +37
    ZoneChaos,

    You wrote:


    There are Five Steps to Becoming a Child of God Zone. It starts with receiving a messenger sent by God. This involves testing those who come to you claiming that they are messengers of God. Then listening to the preaching of the gospel by the messenger sent by God. Usually this takes 28 weeks. After listening to the gospel you decide whether you believe what you heard or not. Then you decide whether you can abide in the teachings that you heard. Usually, you are made to undergo probation for at least six months. Here you put into practice what you have heard and believed in. After successfully undergoing probation, you are now ready for baptism. The whole process usually takes about 6 months.

    Indeed, narrow is the gate and difficult is the way to life that only a few find it.

    Ed
     
  11. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +23
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican


    Which according to scripture is any Believer.



    There is a flaw here. Inordere to test the "messanger" the person must first know the truth, to compare the messanger too. Yet, the person being witnessed does not know the truth, or the messanger wouldn't be there in the first place.



    So, even if I am ready, I have to wait 28 weeks? hmm... Bum deal for the thief on the Cross, when Jesus said he would be in paradise thaty day huh.. guess Jesus should not have gotten the guys hopes up... Maybe he shuld have said "I tell you this day, if you live 28 more weeks on the cross, you will be with me in paradise..."



    Not to hard. this step is pretty quick at least.



    Umm.. why? If you are ready.. why wait?



    Ahh.. so the probation is to make you worthy of a Baptism, which is what eventually saves you?

    It is all very clear now... I guess...

    Look man, none of this is backed up by scripture You show me the passage or passages in the prdere you rpesent these steps here, I will look at them and tell you why you have them out of context, or whatever. BUt the process you describe is just not right.
     
  12. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    ha. probation.. none is worthy of salvation - if we were, we wouldn't need it. :/

    Where does the Bible use that terminology - authorized messengers? If it doesn't, then the whole thing is contrived to begin with. (not necessarily talking exact words here...the Greek would do!)

    K
     
  13. BrainWashed

    BrainWashed New Member

    2
    +0
    I HAVE A QUESTION. what does it mean for christians that jesus died on the cross for us.. what does the cruxifiction mean.. and i dont just wnat a one sentence answer "jesus died on the cross to save us"
     
  14. enoch son

    enoch son Guest

    +0
    God used a donkey one time and it had more wisdom then alot of preacher I've heard!
     
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