White Privilege and Poverty

[Moral Orel]

I know the debate about white privilege has a lot of angles, but I want to focus down on just one, so everyone try real hard to stay on topic.

The statistics bear it out that blacks are more likely to be impoverished than whites, and that's generally the basis for the argument of white privilege when it comes to poverty, but what are people proposing we do about it?

Fix poverty, right? I mean, if you consider it unfair that blacks are more likely to start in a disadvantaged state, then helping all the poor people equally will disproportionately help black people more than white people.

So in this regard, what purpose does it serve to argue about white privilege when it comes to poverty? Just argue for helping the poor, and you're arguing for the exact same thing, regardless of what you think put people in that situation. Would this not be a more effective way to communicate about the problem?

I'm not saying that race isn't tied in at all, in fact I think in many cases it is. I just don't see the point in bringing it up. It just makes the conversation on how to fix the problem more murky.

 

[LoAmmi]

I know the debate about white privilege has a lot of angles, but I want to focus down on just one, so everyone try real hard to stay on topic.

The statistics bear it out that blacks are more likely to be impoverished than whites, and that's generally the basis for the argument of white privilege when it comes to poverty, but what are people proposing we do about it?

Fix poverty, right? I mean, if you consider it unfair that blacks are more likely to start in a disadvantaged state, then helping all the poor people equally will disproportionately help black people more than white people.

So in this regard, what purpose does it serve to argue about white privilege when it comes to poverty? Just argue for helping the poor, and you're arguing for the exact same thing, regardless of what you think put people in that situation. Would this not be a more effective way to communicate about the problem?

I'm not saying that race isn't tied in at all, in fact I think in many cases it is. I just don't see the point in bringing it up. It just makes the conversation on how to fix the problem more murky.

Tying race into stuff always makes it harder.

I said from the inception of BLM that what the message should be is the police overuse of force. Don't bring race into it. That just makes it so a bunch of people roll their eyes. Saying that the police are not using force properly, and you can have a conversation about it.

 

[archer75]

The sense of the the "Black Lives Matter" thing was, at least at the beginning, a statement that the participants believed that when the police killed someone who was black with no good reason, nobody cared (except other black people). Therefore, "Black lives DO matter, you can't just kill black people and not even investigate."

It's not JUST about force. It's about the perception that lethal force is used against black people with next to no legal or professional consequences. That is the idea, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[SgtBen]

Anyone of any color in poverty can and does have a way out. This has been proven over and over again.

This is a matter of making the right choices and rising above circumstances and striving for independence.

I've seen it happen many times and there is help available. Make use of it, use it, help yourself, and turn your back on bad circumstances and unfortunate situations.

Life is so good, and more people need to get an understanding of that. Life is out there, go get it!

 

[LoAmmi]

The sense of the the "Black Lives Matter" thing was, at least at the beginning, a statement that the participants believed that when the police killed someone who was black with no good reason, nobody cared (except other black people). Therefore, "Black lives DO matter, you can't just kill black people and not even investigate."

It's not JUST about force. It's about the perception that lethal force is used against black people with next to no legal or professional consequences. That is the idea, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, and how far did that get with that message? You can't win with a message people don't listen to.

 

[LoAmmi]

Anyone of any color in poverty can and does have a way out. This has been proven over and over again.

This is a matter of making the right choices and rising above circumstances and striving for independence.

I've seen it happen many times and there is help available. Make use of it, use it, help yourself, and turn your back on bad circumstances and unfortunate situations.

Life is so good, and more people need to get an understanding of that. Life is out there, go get it!

There are plenty of stories of people who work hard, try to make the right choices, and never climb out of poverty. The way you say it, the only way that can happen is if you are a bad person in some way. Let's not do that?

 

[archer75]

Yes, and how far did that get with that message? You can't win with a message people don't listen to.

I see what you mean, but then the message would have looked anti-police.

 

[SgtBen]

There are plenty of stories of people who work hard, try to make the right choices, and never climb out of poverty. The way you say it, the only way that can happen is if you are a bad person in some way. Let's not do that?

Who said they were bad people? YOU did. I didn't.

 

[LoAmmi]

I see what you mean, but then the message would have looked anti-police.

Maybe, that's why the framing is key. To many people, it looked anti-police in that the police must be racists. That didn't help anything. Probably got more people rolling their eyes. If you frame it around police use of force, that doesn't seem as anti-police and people might actually pay attention to that. You need attention to fix these things.

 

[LoAmmi]

Who said they were bad people? YOU did. I didn't.

You said that anybody has a way out. If anybody has a way out and they don't take that, wouldn't that make them bad or deficient in some way?

 

[SgtBen]

You said that anybody has a way out. If anybody has a way out and they don't take that, wouldn't that make them bad or deficient in some way?

No, I never said that and that is very unfair.

 

[LoAmmi]

No, I never said that and that is very unfair.

Perhaps a bit too cynical, I'll admit. I think you weren't going for something that I read into the statement.

I'll simply say this: We do need to recognize that some people will always need help getting out of poverty. Some can do it themselves, others cannot no mater how hard they try.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

If white privilege was real, then no whites should have any problems in life. Its just a term made up so some non-whites can blame whites.

With that said I have viewed alot of evidence in my life that the reason some blacks have a harder time in life is due to a few reasons. One of which being a certain "side" in all of this in regards to the government makes it harder for them on purpose in order to maintain control for reasons like votes, racial reasons...etc. Though now its spread to all people who are having a rought time (whites, latino...etc) can be controlled by the government. For example food stamps and monthly checks from the gov are one way to keep the poor...well poor. Its like they are leashed and trapped in a cage that they make hard to get out of. I say this as someone whos part of the system. Its VERY hard to escape. The government likes it that way.

Now other reasons some blacks have it harder has to do with culture. I can't repeat what my jamacian aunt (btw thats what she calls her self lol) say word for word. But she essentially says the black culture after slavery became split over time. Some went on to better themselves. To better their families. To teach their children they could do anything. While many just taught each generation to continue to hate whites as if they were being held back still. So they continue to blame society instead of moving on. My aunt isn't the only one to say that.

A long time friends mother who I knew since a kid lives in the inner city of Cleveland and says while many blacks around her neighborhood growing up were taught they have no options in life, her mother taught her otherwise. And she went on to become a state level educator amongst other things. She raised her kids that they could be anything too. One of the kids is in college now. The other though hung around the wrong crowd and says people are holding him back.

Now.... this doesn't mean some whites don't do the same things. I've see to many down south who are in my "country" type areas who teach their kids that they can never be anything. So maybe its not just one culture that does this, but many. So one could say some americans in general have a culture of feeling owed and/or thinking there is no escape. And for some that is the case. You can work hard and get no where sometimes sadly.

 

[Moral Orel]

Anyone of any color in poverty can and does have a way out. This has been proven over and over again.

This is a matter of making the right choices and rising above circumstances and striving for independence.

I've seen it happen many times and there is help available. Make use of it, use it, help yourself, and turn your back on bad circumstances and unfortunate situations.

Life is so good, and more people need to get an understanding of that. Life is out there, go get it!

Nonsense. The fact that some people escaped poverty is not proof that all people can escape poverty, and when they don't, it's they're fault for making the wrong choices.

Though I'm definitely not a Republican, I'll argue from that stance. America doesn't have enough jobs, that's why unemployment is so high, and that's what Trump is supposed to fix, right? He's going to bring a bunch of jobs to America. If America already had all the jobs necessary for people to rise out of poverty, then his whole campaign wouldn't be necessary.

 

[archer75]

If white privilege was real, then no whites should have any problems in life. Its just a term made up so some non-whites can blame whites.

I do think the term is abused, but I disagree with your statement here. Even if there's privilege -- i.e. - not having to worry as much about being shot when pulled over at a traffic stop, just for one example - that doesn't mean that no white person can have any problem. That's not what privilege means.

 

[Moral Orel]

If white privilege was real, then no whites should have any problems in life. Its just a term made up so some non-whites can blame whites.

With that said I have viewed alot of evidence in my life that the reason some blacks have a harder time in life is due to a few reasons. One of which being a certain "side" in all of this in regards to the government makes it harder for them on purpose in order to maintain control for reasons like votes, racial reasons...etc. Though now its spread to all people who are having a rought time (whites, latino...etc) can be controlled by the government. For example food stamps and monthly checks from the gov are one way to keep the poor...well poor. Its like they are leashed and trapped in a cage that they make hard to get out of. I say this as someone whos part of the system. Its VERY hard to escape. The government likes it that way.

Now other reasons some blacks have it harder has to do with culture. I can't repeat what my jamacian aunt (btw thats what she calls her self lol) say word for word. But she essentially says the black culture after slavery became split over time. Some went on to better themselves. To better their families. To teach their children they could do anything. While many just taught each generation to continue to hate whites as if they were being held back still. So they continue to blame society instead of moving on. My aunt isn't the only one to say that.

A long time friends mother who I knew since a kid lives in the inner city of Cleveland and says while many blacks around her neighborhood growing up were taught they have no options in life, her mother taught her otherwise. And she went on to become a state level educator amongst other things. She raised her kids that they could be anything too. One of the kids is in college now. The other though hung around the wrong crowd and says people are holding him back.

Now.... this doesn't mean some whites don't do the same things. I've see to many down south who are in my "country" type areas who teach their kids that they can never be anything. So maybe its not just one culture that does this, but many. So one could say some americans in general have a culture of feeling owed and/or thinking there is no escape. And for some that is the case. You can work hard and get no where sometimes sadly.

This post is exactly why I suggest leaving the subject of "white privilege" out of the discussion when it comes to poverty. A whole lot about how how it doesn't exist, and nothing about fixing poverty.

 

[SgtBen]

Perhaps a bit too cynical, I'll admit. I think you weren't going for something that I read into the statement.

I'll simply say this: We do need to recognize that some people will always need help getting out of poverty. Some can do it themselves, others cannot no mater how hard they try.

No, that was beyond cynical; I'm sorry, but you put words into my mouth that were not uttered here.

I'm a cop. I get it. I do know the difficulties of difficult upbringings, horrible family situations, bad circumstannces, and all I was saying was that there are options available and many try and do well. It can be done. There are, indeed, those who give up and go to gangs and commit crimes but you have to look at the whole picture.

These are not bad people; they are misguided, not encouraged to do better and take advantage of opportunities. Do you realize how many people in prison do see and do turn their lives around? It's never too late for God ... and I've seen unfortunate folks turn their lives around.

Where there's God, there is hope for everyone, I don't care who you are. God loves us.

 

[SgtBen]

This post is exactly why I suggest leaving the subject of "white privilege" out of the discussion when it comes to poverty. A whole lot about how how it doesn't exist, and nothing about fixing poverty.

Well, the first step of getting out of poverty is getting a job. There are many places here hiring.

 

[ub4me]

Exactly ( focus on helping the poor period)
Being raised in a poor Appalachian community. Predominately white.
not a whole lot of white privilege there. The biggest problem of any poor people who are born into the welfare system. There's not much incentive to move past their situation...for the subsidies
( welfare, food etc ) are greater than the pay they would receive from a job in a poverty stricken town. People of any race can find it more beneficial not to work. That is why good paying jobs are really what these places and people need the most. I believe if there is a way to rise, most people will take It. There will always be those addicted to the system. White, Black, Latino etc.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

White privilege in terms of "You don't get pulled over more or shot or watched!" I think is a bit overboard or at least leaves out to many variables.

Some examples are on the news we see black men being shot by cops to often. BUT.... does that means its true? Or does it just mean the media as always talks about it because it gives them more attention/viewers? We know the media will talk about anything hot topic so people will watch them.

Next example is going by stats. There are nearly 160 million more whites in America than there are blacks. White people make up around 62 percent of the population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. Blacks account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. So whites have a 2.5 high chance of being killed by a cop than a black.

The last example is culture. Many blacks listen to wrap about sex, drugs, violence, gangs...etc. Their movies/tv shows show it too. The hit show on tv called "Empire" embraces the stereotypes of black culture. So when whites see this day in and day out, they have a negative view of blacks. So its why some cops seem more cautious around blacks. Why some whites watch blacks as if they are going to do something wrong.

Now obviously because of the cultural issues it doesn't mean non-blacks should react to blacks in a "cautious" way. But sadly to many do act that way. And while its not fair, I have always said blacks should also make an effort to change the stereotypes of black culture. Protest rap artists who sing about violence, gangs, sex, drugs. Protest tv and movies that reenforce the stereotypes. Make a change and it will start a changed view on the culture.

I know where I live, near Cleveland, there are a bunch of new stories every day of black on black violence in Cleveland. Sometimes gang related like drive by shootings, people shooting at each other on the street. Deadly fights...etc. So when people around here hear that a black man was shot and killed by a cop and hear how blacks are protesting the cop, people say "Why don't they address their violence within their own culture too?". The highest rate of deaths for blacks is from another black killing them.

Again this SHOULD NOT dismiss the fact people have bad preconceptions about black culture. But there needs to be many changes on all fronts for true change to happen. Just not saying "Whites got privilege!". And I find many blacks agreeing with that. My one friend I grew up with lived near Cleveland. On his facebook hes always countering stories about blacks. Like when a black man is shot by a cop he will say "Why did you ignore the officers commands? Why did you run? Why did you reach for your waste? Just be friendly and obey a cop and this wouldn't happen. He says hes never really had any issues with cops or whites for that matter. He blames the black culture.

I will say one thing more though. I think blacks forget about other minorities like latinos, asians...etc. How come they don't seem to have these issues? Especially latinos. Considering how racist people get about them, I still don't see them being shot all the time. Or being stared at like they are up to no good. Granted there will always be some who are just racist no matter what color they are or you are. Thats unavoidbale sadly.