- Oct 4, 2010
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Hi @Aldebaran
Well, I can't speak for whether the mods might consider it off topic, but I'm perfectly willing to discuss that issue also. There are a lot of 'christians' who support the legal right of a woman to get an abortion.
I think Pres. Obama hit the nail on the head when he explained to all of us that America is not just a christian nation. Look on the membership of this website. There are countless atheists, agnostics, muslims, buddhists and many other people besides christians. So the CIC (commander in chief) has to promote agendas that are fair for everyone. Forbes ran this article back in June 2021: Majority Of Americans Support Abortion, Poll Finds — But Not Later In The Pregnancy
A majority of Americans broadly believe abortion should be legal and more than 60% believe people should be able to obtain abortions during the first trimester of their pregnancy, a new Associated Press/NORC poll finds—but support for abortion being legal drops significantly as the pregnancy continues, an issue that will soon be taken up by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Now our nation is established as a democratic nation and if more than 60% believe that abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, mainly early on in the pregnancy, then as a democratic country, that should be the law. However, I never mix the law of the land with my commitment to the Lord. I personally would not encourage any young woman to get an abortion. I personally would not seek an abortion for my wife or girlfriend because I personally believe that abortion is not pleasing to God. But the world is filled with things that the lost of the world do, that I am constrained not to do because of my faith in God.
But my faith in God is still strong even if I live in a nation that has unjust laws. As most all nations do. We had one nation that was going to be ruled by God and His law. That nation was Israel and it failed miserably. I, therefore, don't hold out a shred of hope that as a nation we're going to follow the laws of God. It just is not going to happen, and if I'm reading the Scriptures right, God doesn't expect it to happen. There is no nation upon the earth who can truly show that God is their King. That the will of God is what they follow in all that they do. There just isn't!!!!!!
I believe that abortion is wrong, but...
I also believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong. But that is where most of the abortion requests come from. I also believe that gambling is wrong. Yet dozens of states have legal gambling through state lotteries and the entire state of Nevada not only approves of it but promotes it. Stealing is wrong. Yet thousand upon thousands of people steal every day in this nation. Greed is wrong. Yet thousands of people fill their coffers to the brim without the slightest consideration for those who are poor. This nation, and all the other nations on the earth, are far from God.
But, that doesn't mean that I have to be far from God. I can live my life without supporting abortion. I can live my life without gambling. I can live my life without stealing or being greedy. I don't find anywhere in the Scriptures where God seems to show that He expects His people to change the world systems. He only askes us to teach the gospel to those who are within our realm of acquaintances. So many christians seem to have the command of Jesus backward.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
There's an order in that command. Go and spread the gospel into all the nations of the earth. That's step 1. For those who will believe as you go throughout the world spreading the gospel, baptize them in the name of the trinity. That's step 2. Then, for those who have believed and been baptized...teach them to obey everything that he has commanded of us.
Christians have this nasty habit of trying to beat the people of the world over the head with the law first. Teach the lost and the atheist and the agnostic and the muslim and buddhist to follow the commands of Jesus first. That's just not what Jesus told us to do. In fact, Paul even writes to us that we should not bother with judging those who are not of the faith, but rather those who are a part of us.
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside.
Here Paul seems to make it clear that we aren't to waste our time judging those outside of the faith. That they are immoral, greedy, swindlers and idolaters. He says that we are only to avoid such a person if they claim to be of the faith.
So, my encouragement, let's get off of this pointing fingers to the world and telling them how terribly wicked they are because they allow abortions. Instead, let's tell them about the love available to them through Jesus and how he died for all of our sins. Then, if they listen to us, we can start to teach them to obey the commands of Jesus.
Now, as it relates to Joe Biden, the man, I don't believe that he personally supports the position of abortion. I don't think that he would ever counsel someone to get an abortion. But the laws of this nation are not just for christians. As the President of the United States he is responsible for trying to establish 'democratic' laws, not 'christian' laws. I believe that most presidents have understood that pretty well. After all, Roe v. Wade has stood for some 50 years now. That's through the administration of a lot of different presidents. Why don't you write your ire against all of them who have served since 1973.
However, as to Pres. Biden's moral character and nature, I find it to be much, much greater than the 'former guy' who just wanted to take us all for a ride while he lined his pockets with his filthy euchre.
God bless,
Ted
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