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Which religious Group is this?

Discussion in 'Psychosis and Schizophrenia' started by Bridgida, Dec 12, 2018.

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  1. Bridgida

    Bridgida New Member

    In Relationship
    Can someone help here?
    I skype with my brother and we talk about God. He wants to tell me that the Bible should be burned. That when we pray to the Jesus on the cross we commit a sin. The Bible is wrong and so the church. He sounds like a Spiritualsit, but they still tend to like the Bible. Where he don't want to read this book. He says always he is so deep involved, that he sounds he is involved in a very strange sect. I thought first that he is hanging on and practicing American Indian Spiritualism, but now I don't know. I am confused.
    He lives in New Mexico and he always talks about a Pastor Rubens.
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    United States
    Why don't you ask him where and/or who and how he is formulating his beliefs? You need more information.
  3. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    United States
    Christ was hanged on a stake, not a cross. Men have corrupted the bible, but it is nothing beyond finding out. Never throw the baby out with the wash.
  4. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

    United States
    That's not what the Greek meant at the time the gospels were written.
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  5. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Well . . . you can test each thing he says. And maybe there is no label. But offer him good things which can help him.
  6. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    There are two trumpets....

    1. The Word - As in the Bible
    2. The Spirit - As in the Holy Ghost

    And they are of the same piece. If you ever get the Holy Ghost the first book you will take interest in is the Bible...

  7. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

    United States
    I don't know about your brother, but Pastor Ruben, the one I could find on the internet residing in New Mexico, is Baptist, and he affirms only typical Evangelical beliefs. I didn't see anything strange, there.
  8. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    United States
    The cross is a pagan symbol that was used in Egypt for thousands of years before Christ was born into this world. The Roman Catholic Church adopted the cross symbol about 600 years after Christ was hanged on a stake. The early Christians of North Africa also rejected the cross after Tertullian condemned it.

    Tertullian confessed that pagans worshiped crucified saviors by hanging them on a cross.

    "Crosses, moreover, we Christians neither venerate nor wish for. You indeed who consecrate gods of wood venerate wooden crosses, perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners, and flags of your camps, what are they but crosses gilded and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it."

    The pagan roots of Christianity are indicated by his confession. Tertullian was a Christian who later became a Gnostic. He implies that Pagan Christians borrowed the sun-god myth.
  9. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

    United States
    I can't help but notice how you're not acknowledging what the Greek says.

    Those who hold to your view ignore two things: first, that Koine Greek was used in the writing of the gospels, and second, that it wasn't until centuries after (or before) the gospels were penned that the word for cross became the word for stake (and not even in the Koine Greek of the gospels).

    You'd also have to explain why the earliest Christian art (created long before anything you mention) depicts Him on a cross, and not the torture stake that you claim.
  10. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    United States
    The word Cross a note

    Homeric and classical Greek

    In Homeric and classical Greek, stauros meant an upright stake, pole, or piece of paling, upon which anything might be hung.

    In the literature of that time, it never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always one piece alone.

    Koine Greek

    In Koine Greek, the form of Greek used between about 300 BC and AD 300, the word σταυρός (Stauros) was used to denote a structure on which the Romans executed criminals. In the writings of the Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC), Plutarch and Lucian – non-Christian writers, of whom only Lucian makes clear the shape of the device – the word stauros is generally translated as "stake."
  11. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    United States
    Origin of the word crux. Latin for: stake, scaffold, or cross, used in executions or torment.

    The English term "cross" is derived from the Latin word crux. From about 1635 to 1645 AD.


    An upright pole with cross section to display a standard such as a flag, banner, or emblem.

    Word Origin

    From Late Latin, and of obscure origin

    This standard was known by the name "labarum"—a word the etymology of which is very uncertain. The etymology of the word is unclear. Some derive it from Latin /labāre/ "to totter, or to waver." The labarum was also used to hold the ancient Babylonian sky-god emblem.


    It is a establish fact that the two-beamed cross was in existence in the time of Yahshua, and that the word crux was used to refer to it. The crux was composed of two main pieces: The stipes, which is the upright pole, and the patibulum attached to it. The patibulum is the cross beam.


    Stipe is an upright support.

    From Latin stipes "log, post, tree trunk"


    Stauros (σταυρός) is the Greek word for stake or post.
  12. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

    United States
    The cross symbol

    the circular shape of the sun which emphasises the ever
    recurring cyclical nature of the seasons is the origin of the
    this neolithic symbol. it combines a cross within a circle
    and is the simplest conceivable representation of the union
    of opposed polarities. probably the oldest symbol in the
    world, it appeared in asian, american, european, and indian art
    from the dawn of history.

    the same symbol is also called
    there are two types of wheel crosses:
    the four-armed freestanding cross representing shadows
    cast by the rising and setting sun at the two solstices,
    and the six-armed cross created by addition of the equinoctial
    sunrise and sunset shadows.
    the one with four spokes, which wheels in time lost their rim,
    became ‘real’ crosses.

    the swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for 4000 years.
    artifacts of the the harappan civilization show a pre-veda,
    pre-aryan and pre-hindu origin of the swastika.
    the word swastika comes from the sanskrit ‘svastika’.
    the word can be divided into the components
    sva (one's own) and astika (it is).
    it is a symbol of auspiciousness: it has been used as a
    symbol of the sun, of the four directions (N,E,S, W),
    of the world-wheel (the eternally changing world,
    round a fixed, unchanging centre or god)...
    the image of the swastika was used by many cultures
    around the world, including in near and far east ,
    north america, africa and europe.
    of all the symbols and marks produced by ancient and
    modern man the swastika is the most contradictory.
    the consequences of the false relationship between
    it and its ‘modern corporate identity’, the swastika became
    inextricably wed to the hitlerian cult of german nationalism
    and racism.

    in ancient egypt the tau was used, along with a type of
    hammer-headed cross and the swastika, to mark sacred water
    jars and, in a country where the erect phallus was everywhere
    in evidence as a religious icon.
    the tau may have developed from the widespread and
    ancient symbol of the sun god (solar cross / wheel cross)
    - which may itself have evolved into a hammer, possibly
    connected with the growth in importance of the smith in later
    iron age times. the act of hammering white-hot ingots
    of metal into functional or sacred artefacts was in itself an
    act of creation with a phallic implication.
    it is also known to be a symbol of the roman god mithras and
    the greek attis (in the shape of the greek letter ‘T’).
    the tau was known as the ‘cross’ of the christian old testament,
    supposed to be the mark made by faithful israelites to
    distinguish them from those of their kinsfolk who had lapsed
    into paganism.

    the ‘ankh’ is an ancient egyptian hieroglyph representing life
    and regeneration. called also ‘crux ansata’ which means
    cross with a handle. it was adopted by the gnostics and the
    copts as the symbolic representation of both physical and eternal life.
    the top loop symbolises the sun on the horizon.
    amulets and mirrors were often made in the shape of an ankh.
    a modified version of the ankh symbol is used in astrology to
    represent the planet venus, in alchemy to represent the
    element copper,and in biology to identify the female sex.

    the cross with 4 arms of equal length was a common sign
    in ancient greece, in pre-columbian america, in the near east,
    and in the euphrates-tigris region around 1500 B.C.
    it is found on assyrian and persian monuments and tablets,
    greek coins and statues.
    this cross appears in our world in a variety of contexts,
    for example the symbol for the red cross is a red greek cross.

    the coptic alphabet is variant of the greek alphabet
    containing a number of extra letters which come from
    the egyptian script. the coptic alphabet came into being
    during the 1-3rd century BC after the greek conquest of egypt
    and the subsequent spread of the indigenous form of christianity
    (coptic orthodox christianity). according to tradition, the apostle
    mark established in egypt in the middle of the first century CE
    (approximately 60 AD). coptic crosses reflect a number of historic
    influences including greek, latin, egyptian, and celtic design

    it is composed of the greek letters ‘chi’ (which looks like an
    english ‘X’ and sounds like a ‘ch’) and rho (which looks like
    an english capital ‘P’ and sounds like an ‘r’).
    these two greek letters are the first two letters in the greek word
    ‘christos’. as a pre-christian symbol, the chi-ro signified good fortune.
    it became an important christian symbol when adopted by the
    roman emperor constantine, in the fourth century.
    this style of cross is nearly identical to the pagan symbol for the
    sun and constantine was a sunworshipper before and after he
    was converted to christianity. he made the cross the standard of his
    armies. when christianity later became the state religion of the
    roman empire, the cross became the symbol of the church.

    the latin cross or ‘crux immissa’ is the most popular form of crosses.
    during the first three centuries of christianity, the cross was
    rare in christian iconography (although it is found on coins,
    medals, and ornaments anteriour to the christian era and
    descriptions of it are found in christian writings from the
    early 2nd century onwards. the cross first became prominent
    in christian imagery during the late 3rd century).
    the upper arm of the latin cross and the two side arms are of
    equal length while the lower arm is twice as long as any of the
    other three. it was on this cross that christ is said to have been
    crucified, and thus it became accepted as the christian cross.

    is a decussate cross that takes the form of the roman number 10,
    of an 'X' shape or saltire.
    according to tradition st. andrew, the brother of st. peter, was crucified on
    a cross of this shape. st. andrew did not feel worthy enough to die
    on the same typology of cross that christ had died and requested
    a cross of different shape. st. andrew's cross came into wide use
    during the medieval period and became the national cross of scotland,
    since st. andrew was the patron saint of scotland.

    st. peter was executed on an upside down cross.
    it is used also as a symbol of satanism.

    in celtic regions of britain, scotland and ireland many free-standing
    upright crosses were erected, beginning from the 8th century.
    the celtic cross is a cross with a circle overlying the point where
    the lines meet. a legend tells how st. patrick created the first
    celtic cross by drawing a circle over a latin cross to incorporate
    a pagan moon goddess symbol.

    the cross lorraine, named after the region in france of the
    same name; the form of the cross is used primarily in the
    russian orthodox church.
    the upper bar represents the inscription, abbreviated
    INRI, that pilate had placed above jesus' head.
    the slanted bar is lost in legend.
    maybe the slanted bar forms a st. andrew's cross.
    it is a symbol for white lead in alchemical texts.

    is a cross with eight arms / a cross, which is superimposed
    on a greek ‘chi’, the first letter of the greek word for ‘christ’.
    since the number eight is symbolic of rebirth or regeneration,
    this cross is often used as a baptismal cross.

    this cross is the official emblem of the papal office.
    it may be used by none other than the pope himself.
    the three bars represent the pope's three realms of authority:
    the church, the world and heaven.

    this cross was the emblem of st. clement, bishop of rome,
    who according to tradition was tied to an anchor and tossed
    into the sea by the emperor trajan.
    it has been the anchor cross and the firm faith which keep
    ed christians steady in the storms of life.
    based on hebrews 6:19 which reads, ‘we have this hope,
    a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters
    the inner shrine behind the curtain.’

    some alchemical elements bear the cross sign.
    for example the alchemical symbol for sulfur,
    which was a triangle at the top of a cross.
    (there is the biblical story of entateuch / genesis
    in which hell is thought of to smell of sulfur...)

    in mathematics a cross is regarded as a
    ‘plus sign’, which means ‘add this to that’ or
    ‘more than’ or just ‘and’ or ‘plus’.
    it appears for the first time in germany in 1489.

    the hermetic rose cross is a very old mystical symbol.
    the rose symbolized the redemptive power of the blood of christ;
    the letters inscribed on the 4 central rays combine into INRI,
    which combination represents a latin motto meaning
    ‘nature is completely renewed by fire’.
    the symbol as a whole illustrated the triumph of spirit over matter.
    in the center of the rose cross there is another rose cross,
    smaller but conceptually identical.
    this is the microcosm that mirrors the macrocosm.
    surrounding the inner cross are 22 petals containing the
    22 letters of the hebrew alphabet, each colored according to
    kabbalistic attributions.
    the end of each arm is inscribed with symbols of the
    three principles of alchemy: mercury, sulfur and salt.
    thus each arm can be mapped to important trinities.

    in astrology, a cross sign is really more of a symbol because
    it has many levels of meaning beyond the unambiguous
    name which indicates a particular sector of the sky.
    after all, astrology is a symbolic language!
    since ancient times a cross might mean ‘the cross of matter’,
    which is basically what it represents in astrology, where it
    appears as ‘the cardinal cross’.
    the vertical bar symbolizes spirit which interpenetrates the
    horizontal bar representing matter, or the earth plane (horizon line).
    the symbol of a cross within a circle is used to represent the
    part of fortune in astrology, but it can also represent the earth itself.

    is a greek cross, ancerated with 'v's cut into the ends.
    the cross is almost akin to a modern maltese cross.

    is a greek cross or irregular dodecahedron cross,
    whose points flange out at the end.
    the eight outer points of this cross are symbolic of regeneration.
    they are sometimes said to represent the eight beatitudes.
    it represents the sign of the military order of the knights of malta
    and is a symbol of protection and a badge of honor.
    in its evolution it is of medieval origin. [​IMG]
    solar crosses,
    scandinavian bronze age rock carvings
    at bohüslan, sweden
  13. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

    We need more information.
  14. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

    This nonsense about stauros not meaning "cross" is standard propaganda from the "Jehovah's Witnesses."

    In fact, as you point out, we have pictures and descriptions from the 2nd century onward showing on what kind of cross Jesus died.

    The Epistle of Barnabas and Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho compare the shape of the cross to Moses standing with outstretched hands (Exodus 17:8-16).
  15. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

    We sure do.
  16. Bridgida

    Bridgida New Member

    In Relationship
    Yes I need to know more as well. and I searched for Pastor Rubens and found similar writings.

    He was writing as well, how to get rid of demons and healing.
    He's wife is from Iran and she hates the Koran and the Bible, so they must think that they have found a middle way.
  17. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

    United Kingdom
    You need to read up on why the bible is reliable etc and why Jesus died, rose and the evidence for this.

    Having done this start asking your brother. When he says the bible should be burned. Why do you believe that? When he says it is wrong ask him how does he know and what evidence does he have.
    Keep asking Why do you believe... and What evidence do you have untill you understand what he believes.

    Be sure to be able to answer these questioins yourself.

    Then you can point out the flaws in his arguments.
  18. Bridgida

    Bridgida New Member

    In Relationship
    Good idea thanks.
  19. Bridgida

    Bridgida New Member

    In Relationship

    here is one explanation. I wonder why it is so necessary to believe them?
  20. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    This thread has been closed as off topic
    to the Psychosis and Schizophrenia forum.​

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