Which Protestant Church / Group is the most Catholic?

[Philip_B]

Did not the Orthodox Christians protest against the RCC?

No! They argued against the Pope changing the Creed that had been declared at one Oecumenical Council, and ratified by the Councils following, and which is today the Statement of Faith for this Forum. The East upheld the decisions of the Councils of the Church.

Arguably, as Catholic is a Greek compound word, kata and holos, meaning according to the whole, and since it was the whole Church that decided to Creed, and the whole Church that ratified the Creed, that the Eastern Church was indeed being more Catholic than the Western Church including Rome, in the events sparked by the Coronation of Henry II as HRE on the 14th of February 1014, and culminating in the bull of excommunication on the 16th of July 1054.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

No! They argued against the Pope changing the Creed that had been declared at one Oecumenical Council, and ratified by the Councils following, and which is today the Statement of Faith for this Forum. The East upheld the decisions of the Councils of the Church.

Arguably, as Catholic is a Greek compound word, kata and holos, meaning according to the whole, and since it was the whole Church that decided to Creed, and the whole Church that ratified the Creed, that the Eastern Church was indeed being more Catholic than the Western Church including Rome, in the events sparked by the Coronation of Henry II as HRE on the 14th of February 1014, and culminating in the bull of excommunication on the 16th of July 1054.

There was what we know as the "great schism ". I guess I am not seeing the distinction between protesting and arguing eventually resulting in a split. Thanks for engaging.

 

[Philip_B]

There was what we know as the "great schism ". I guess I am not seeing the distinction between protesting and arguing eventually resulting in a split. Thanks for engaging.

I think, that whilst I did not use the words 'The Great Schism', the events I described are recognisably the period in which the Great Schism occurred. The Eastern Church remained faithful true and loyal to the Creed of the Councils, so perhaps it was the Roman Church protesting against the Creed of the Councils that was really going on. Maybe if one side was going to come out Protestant by that measure, may be it was the Roman Church.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

My vote for closest to the Catholic Church is the Anglican Catholic Church, one of the Continuing Churches. It’s small so not well known, but they are very traditional high-church. They use the 1928(?) BCP and the Anglican Missal.

 

[bbbbbbb]

My vote for closest to the Catholic Church is the Anglican Catholic Church, one of the Continuing Churches. It’s small so not well known, but they are very traditional high-church. They use the 1928(?) BCP and the Anglican Missal.

I agree with your assessment with the caveat that catholic, in this thread, is viewed as the RCC, and not the catholic (worldwide) church of God.

 

[Valletta]

I agree with your assessment with the caveat that catholic, in this thread, is viewed as the RCC, and not the catholic (worldwide) church of God.

The name of my Church is the "Catholic Church."

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Did not the Orthodox Christians protest against the RCC?

The name Protestant was applied to those princes of the Holy Roman Empire who protesting the decision of the Diet of Speyer during the Lutheran reformation in 1529. So very specifically, Protestant is Lutheran.

The split of the Oriental Orthodox occurred when they rejected the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Western Catholicism and the Eastern Orthodox began splitting in 1054 with the Great Schism and although there was some reconciliation, the final break is with the sack of Constantinople of 1204 and the last attempt of reunion was with the Council of Ferrara-Florence in the 1400s. Most of the reunion attempts after 1054 were the Byzantine emperors trying to get military support from the west against various Islamic nomadic invaders.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The name of my Church is the "Catholic Church."

So do we, in Greek Our official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The name of my Church is the "Catholic Church."

As you may know, there are many Christian denominations who contain "Catholic" in their names. Your denomination, at least in my neck of the woods, chooses to identify itself as the Roman Catholic Church. In Chicago there is also the Polish Catholic Church. In England there has been the Apostolic Catholic Church.

 

[Philip_B]

The name of my Church is the "Catholic Church."

There are four notes of the Church set out in the Creed of the 1st Council of Constantinople.

ONE - HOLY - CATHOLIC - APOSTOLIC​

If a Church decided to call itself the Apostolic Church, the One Church, or the Holy Church, it would do nothing to diminish those qualities in the rest of the Church. That the name of your Church is the Catholic Church does not diminish that quality in any other Church.

 

[Jonaitis]

Which Protestant Church / Group is the most Catholic? And why? In other words, which one comes closest to Catholic teaching or practice?

I think the closest group I consider are called "Anglo-Catholics." They are Anglicans that share many qualities and/or practices with Roman Catholics.

 

[Vaseman]

The other apostles were given identical powers of binding and loosing by Jesus.

When the apostles were arguing who was greatest among them,Jesus said none of them will be above the others, which is why Peter called himself a FELLOW ELDER.

Not to mention the RC is a gentile church, and Peter was the apostle to the Jews, Paul the apostle to the gentiles, which is why Paul wrote the book of Romans, not Peter.

Peter is found in scripture at the Jewish church at Jerusalem. Three years after his conversion, Paul went to Jerusalem to see Peter for 15 days.

Peter was not in Rome being pope. Ever.

Well Irenaeus, the 2nd/3rd century bishop of Lyons, seems to disagree, as he lists Peter with Paul as the founders of the Roman Church:

2. “Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre-eminent authority,3313 that is, the faithful everywhere, 416inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.” (Against Heresies, 3.3.2)
God bless.

 

[Jipsah]

The other apostles were given identical powers of binding and loosing by Jesus.

That's nice. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the topic of this thread, now does it?

You don't like the RCC. Noted. But that isn't what the rest of us are talking about here.

I'm Anglican, but I find I agree with Roman Catholics far more often than not. I believe in the Apostolic Succession. I pray the Rosary. I ask departed saints to pray for me and mine. I'm on the fence about purgatory, but I understand the doctrine. I venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary, and consider her the God bearer, the Mother of God. I esteem the Bishop of Rome, but cannot confess him to be the Vicar of Christ. Those things will do to go on with, I think.

I have to confess a knee-jerk antipathy towards to standard Know Nothing (as in the Know Nothing Party) raving about how bad the RCC is, as I think it's appropriately named. It's a viewpoint born almost wholly of equal parts ignorance and malice, and unworthy of consideration by any literate person. Every time I read some vitriolic screed about how bad the RCC is, the more I consider "crossing the Tiber" myself.

I'll put it this way - Almost thou persuadest me to be a Roman Catholic.

 

[Valletta]

As you may know, there are many Christian denominations who contain "Catholic" in their names. Your denomination, at least in my neck of the woods, chooses to identify itself as the Roman Catholic Church. In Chicago there is also the Polish Catholic Church. In England there has been the Apostolic Catholic Church.

We are not a denomination. The various Catholic rites, of which the Roman rite is one of them, are part of the Catholic Church. You can look it up in our Catechism online at the Vatican. Since in the United States the Roman rite is by far the most dominant, and other churches sometimes use the name Catholic in their name, it can be helpful when on the road and trying to find a mass for churches to put up a Roman Catholic sign, but the official name of our Church is the Catholic Church.

 

[Valletta]

Well Irenaeus, the 2nd/3rd century bishop of Lyons, seems to disagree, as he lists Peter with Paul as the founders of the Roman Church:

2. “Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre-eminent authority,3313 that is, the faithful everywhere, 416inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.” (Against Heresies, 3.3.2)
God bless.

". . . the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.” —Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:10
Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

[Philip_B]

". . . the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.” —Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:10
Catechism of the Catholic Church

Correct, it is the third note of the Church, others being one, holy, and apostolic.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Thought this might make for some interesting discussion / opinions.

Which Protestant Church / Group is the most Catholic?

And why?

In other words, which one comes closest to Catholic teaching or practice?

The Orthodox churches - though technically they are not Protestant and never embraced protestant ideas like sola Scriptura.

The next most Catholic would be the Scandinavian Lutheran churches which were Catholic until their kings decided that the nation was Lutheran. Yet they retained most of the Catholic liturgy, scriptures, and beliefs with some exceptions.

 

[tz620q]

Correct, it is the third note of the Church, others being one, holy, and apostolic.

I agree. I must admit that I cannot say the creed without pausing between those words, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. The four marks of the Church each highlight a different attribute that the Church should possess. One talks to the unity of the faithful, one belief set, one community. Holy talks about a group of people set apart from the secular world, living in the hope and expectation of running the race and receiving a reward in Heaven. Catholic talks about the global presence of God and therefore the need for a global presence of the Church. Apostolic speaks to the foundation of the Church on the teachings of Christ as transmitted through the apostles. True wisdom that draws the boundaries of the Church.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I agree. I must admit that I cannot say the creed without pausing between those words, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. The four marks of the Church each highlight a different attribute that the Church should possess. One talks to the unity of the faithful, one belief set, one community. Holy talks about a group of people set apart from the secular world, living in the hope and expectation of running the race and receiving a reward in Heaven. Catholic talks about the global presence of God and therefore the need for a global presence of the Church. Apostolic speaks to the foundation of the Church on the teachings of Christ as transmitted through the apostles. True wisdom that draws the boundaries of the Church.

Catholics also speak of "catholic" as embracing time. The Catholic Church is both global in space and ancient in time.

 

[The Liturgist]

Note that the official name of the Orthodox churches and the Church of the East is also the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. Orthodox and the Slavonic Pravoslav is more of an adjective for the communion which means “right-worshipping.” And considering relative lack of liturgical abuse in the Orthodox churches (the Coptic Church had some problems, but these were addressed by carving up the extra-diocesan areas in the Diaspora under the Patriarch into Dioceses with new Diocesan bishops with the power to depose priests who continued to allow praise and worship music and other abuse).

The Assyrian Church of the East has some liturgical problems, but it does not style itself as Orthodox, interestingly. The Armenian Apostolic Church is a part of the Oriental Orthodox communion, and so is Orthodox according to the communion name.

Also the Eastern Orthodox have a valid claim on the name “Roman” since the Orthodox in the Levant identify as “Rum” meaning Roman, and the majority Orthodox area of Eastern Europe north of Greece under Romanian control was called “Roumelia.” And Greek / pan-Hellenic and pan-Adriatic Jews are called Romaniote Jews.

The most accurate name for the Roman Catholic Church would be the Catholic Church of Rome and the Vatican (because the administrative headquarters of the RCC is the Vatican City State on the Vatican Hill, which is outside the Pomerium and legally a separate city from Rome, with its own Gendarmes instead of Italian Caribinieri, and its own Swiss Guards instead of the Italian Army, but the Cathedral Church of the Bishop of Rome is St. John Lateran, in the Pomerium, part of ancient and modern Rome, although like the other two major basillicas in Italy and the Lateran Palace, it has extraterritoriality, like an Embassy, but I believe law enforcement is provided by Roman police and Caribineri, and not the Vatican Gendarmerie, so it most obviously is still a part of Rome, and indeed is in an area that was a part of ancient Rome, unlike St. Peter’s Basicalla or St. Paul’s-Outside-The-Walls.

Note that I love the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. I am however admittedly a confirmed pedant, probably the most pedantic member of this forum (my father once joked that my manner of speech was like that of a pedantic schoolteacher), and it is my enjoyment of pedantry, or perhaps my addiction to it, which prompts this post.