Which political party is more consistent with scriptural teaching?

[Hazelelponi]

So you think abortion is murder, but you're opposed to demanding that others refrain from murder/abortion? How does that make sense?

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

Those outside the church God will deal with. I trust God will do just that.

He has given me certain things that are within my purview, other things are His lookout. The world is His lookout. It is mine to share with people the Gospel, and it His to take it from there, to judge the world, to do whatever He wants with them.

No where does the Bible say 'and if they don't believe in Me force them to follow my laws.'.. just never seen that anywhere.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

Those outside the church God will deal with. I trust God will do just that.

He has given me certain things that are within my purview, other things are His lookout. The world is His lookout. It is mine to share with people the Gospel, and it His to take it from there, to judge the world, to do whatever He wants with them.

No where does the Bible say 'and if they don't believe in Me force them to follow my laws.'.. just never seen that anywhere.

Mark 16:15 says, "You can be a Christian and get saved, but make sure to keep your religion to yourself." Oh, wait. Wait a sec! It doesn't actually say that. Here is what it really says: "Go into the world and preach the Gospel to all creation." The Bible is clear that our faith isn't merely a private matter; it's something that should be spread and preached to all the world. That includes pro-life teachings from scripture.

 

[The Barbarian]

We now have a majority conservative supreme court. I predict that abortion will be illegal within a year.

Legislating from the bench? Not if they're really conservatives. But you could be right. However, with at least one republican partisan on the court, I really doubt that they will throw away anything that has been such a useful political tool for the republican party.

Here's what you've missed; while you've been seeking a political solution, Americans have slowly become more and more pro-life. A majority of us are now pro-life. Just as people responded to Trump's attempts to stop civil rights laws, by shaming racists and changing corporate and state rules, we're shutting down abortion by changing minds. Prayer and activism work, even if republicans prefer using government.

Mark 16:15

says, "You can be a Christian and get saved, but make sure to keep your religion to yourself." Oh, wait. Wait a sec! It doesn't actually say that. Here is what it really says: "Go into the world and preach the Gospel to all creation." The Bible is clear that our faith isn't merely a private matter; it's something that should be spread and preached to all the world. That includes pro-life teachings from scripture.

While you're looking for Big Brother to fix it, Christians are out there, making a difference. Mark doesn't say "pass laws to force people to do the right thing." He says to go out and preach His word and that will change the world.

Join us? You're putting your faith in the wrong place, I think.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Mark 16:15 says, "You can be a Christian and get saved, but make sure to keep your religion to yourself." Oh, wait. Wait a sec! It doesn't actually say that. Here is what it really says: "Go into the world and preach the Gospel to all creation." The Bible is clear that our faith isn't merely a private matter; it's something that should be spread and preached to all the world. That includes pro-life teachings from scripture.

Preaching the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom (i.e. the Messiah came, new covanent era began etc) is to teach and share this joyous thing!

He didn't establish an earthly kingdom, He didn't establish an earthly government (for My Kingdom is not of this world) and He never gave us the edict to force people to live according to a faith they don't believe. It's an offer in love.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

Preaching the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom (i.e. the Messiah came, new covanent era began etc) is to teach and share this joyous thing!

He didn't establish an earthly kingdom, He didn't establish an earthly government (for My Kingdom is not of this world) and He never gave us the edict to force people to live according to a faith they don't believe. It's an offer in love.

You're denying it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You're denying it.

What am I denying?

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

What am I denying?

As Christians, we can't merely keep our religious views private. That include our pro-life views. It's clearly something we must advocate for politically.

 

[Hazelelponi]

As Christians, we can't merely keep our religious views private. That include our pro-life views. It's clearly something we must advocate for politically.

I'm not advocating a "private" faith. I believe in sharing salvation with the lost. I believe in public prayer if anyone feels so led. I believe in religious freedom and liberty. I believe in the ability to go to church etc etc etc.

I don't believe we can pass religious laws demanding non Christians follow our faith. I am not confused and definitely know I live in a New Covenant United States of America and not an Old Covenant Israel.

Christ Kingdom is not of this world. HE SAID so.

That means when we pass laws, we have to look outside of individual faith for a natural law, a societal law that doesn't deprive man of his will, but that won't harm society..

If you want to know what religious rule looks like look no further than Iran. Afghanistan. Dark ages Catholicism.

My idea of right and wrong may not be yours. I have no desire to fight my way to the top of the heap to deprive others of their right to make their own choices. I think everyone should have that right to choose and won't see mine taken away either.

God gave us the right, and the mind to choose. I prefer a society where we are free to do that, as much as possible. It's called freedom. I rather like it, and if I like it for myself then I must like it for others even if they choose different things.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Honestly, I do not see a solution, I mean when was the last time a third party won the presidency or had control of the house or senate? For the most part, it's a two party system, Microsoft and Apple with Linux being the choice for advanced users.

As a Linux user I note that every Android phone is basically running Linux and that most servers also run Linux. If you include all of the embedded devices a lot of those run Linux. Oh, and the Mac OS is basically Unix. Point being that things change. The Democrats and the Whigs gave way to the Democrats and the Republicans. The two party system with the two parties we now have is not set in stone. In my opinion it is high time to give up both of the big parties.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

I don't believe we can pass religious laws demanding non Christians follow our faith. I am not confused and definitely know I live in a New Covenant United States of America and not an Old Covenant Israel.

I disagree. God must be included in civic life. If you don't agree, then what are you suggesting? That atheism should be the guiding ethos for our civilization?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I disagree. God must be included in civic life. If you don't agree, then what are you suggesting? That atheism should be the guiding ethos for our civilization?

I think Americas founding father's did a wonderful job spelling it out.

I will stand upon, and fight for that. Freedom.not religious rule.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The GOP is the pro-life party.

The GOP is only half-pro-life. The GOP doesn't want to end abortion because they would lose pro-life voters if they fixed the problem. The Democrats similarly don't want to end poverty because they would then lose a constituency.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

The GOP is only half-pro-life. The GOP doesn't want to end abortion because they would lose pro-life voters if they fixed the problem. The Democrats similarly don't want to end poverty because they would then lose a constituency.

Why would pro-life voters quit voting Republican if abortion were made illegal? That doesn't make sense.

 

[The Barbarian]

Preaching the Gospel (good news) of the Kingdom (i.e. the Messiah came, new covanent era began etc) is to teach and share this joyous thing!

He didn't establish an earthly kingdom, He didn't establish an earthly government (for My Kingdom is not of this world) and He never gave us the edict to force people to live according to a faith they don't believe. It's an offer in love.

Well said.

 

[The Barbarian]

As Christians, we can't merely keep our religious views private. That include our pro-life views. It's clearly something we must advocate for politically.

Jesus disagrees with you. He said that His kingdom is not of this world. He didn't say "go out and establish My church by law." He said to go out and be fishers of souls.

If all Christians did that, we'd have that kingdom now. No matter how hard you try to establish His kingdom by laws, you will fail.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

Jesus disagrees with you. He said that His kingdom is not of this world. He didn't say "go out and establish My church by law." He said to go out and be fishers of souls.

If all Christians did that, we'd have that kingdom now. No matter how hard you try to establish His kingdom by laws, you will fail.

You're playing word games to avoid the subject.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You're playing word games to avoid the subject.

There's no subject to avoid. The founders of this country fled religious persecution...

Do you think protestants came here to become the persecutors?

No! It's clear in the constitution! They set this country up to be free.. for men to be free.

Sometimes that means we won't always agree.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Jesus disagrees with you. He said that His kingdom is not of this world. He didn't say "go out and establish My church by law." He said to go out and be fishers of souls.

If all Christians did that, we'd have that kingdom now. No matter how hard you try to establish His kingdom by laws, you will fail.

You're playing word games to avoid the subject.

You're unhappy that Jesus doesn't tell us to gain political power. Set your pride aside and accept it His way. There's no way for you to play word games on this one. Do it His way, not yours.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nvm..

 

[The Barbarian]

There's no subject to avoid. The founders of this country fled religious persecution...

Do you think protestants came here to become the persecutors?

No! It's clear in the constitution! They set this country up to be free.. for men to be free.

Sometimes that means we won't always agree.

The founders of this country saw what establish religion did in Europe, and they wanted no part of it. And realizing that there would always be those who would try to do it anyway, they locked religious freedom into the Constitution. Madison explains why:

1.   Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, “that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence.”2 The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right.
...
2.   Because if Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: it is limited with regard to the co-ordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained; but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the great Barrier which defends the rights of the people.
...
3.   Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents.
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4.   Because the Bill violates that equality which ought to be the basis of every law, and which is more indispensible, in proportion as the validity or expediency of any law is more liable to be impeached. If “all men are by nature equally free and independent,”6 all men are to be considered as entering into Society on equal conditions; as relinquishing no more, and therefore retaining no less, one than another, of their natural rights. Above all are they to be considered as retaining an “equal title to the free exercise of Religion according to the dictates of Conscience.”
...
5.   Because the Bill implies either that the Civil Magistrate is a competent Judge of Religious Truth; or that he may employ Religion as an engine of Civil policy.8 The first is an arrogant pretension falsified by the contradictory opinions of Rulers in all ages, and throughout the world: the second an unhallowed perversion of the means of salvation.
...
6.   Because the establishment proposed by the Bill is not requisite for the support of the Christian Religion. To say that it is, is a contradiction to the Christian Religion itself, for every page of it disavows a dependence on the powers of this world: it is a contradiction to fact; for it is known that this Religion both existed and flourished, not only without the support of human laws, but in spite of every opposition from them, and not only during the period of miraculous aid, but long after it had been left to its own evidence and the ordinary care of Providence.
...
7.   Because experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
...
8.   Because the establishment in question is not necessary for the support of Civil Government. If it be urged as necessary for the support of Civil Government only as it is a means of supporting Religion, and it be not necessary for the latter purpose, it cannot be necessary for the former. If Religion be not within the cognizance of Civil Government how can its legal establishment be necessary to Civil Government?
...
9.   Because the proposed establishment is a departure from that generous policy, which, offering an Asylum to the persecuted and oppressed of every Nation and Religion, promised a lustre to our country, and an accession to the number of its citizens. What a melancholy mark is the Bill of sudden degeneracy? Instead of holding forth an Asylum to the persecuted, it is itself a signal of persecution. It degrades from the equal rank of Citizens all those whose opinions in Religion do not bend to those of the Legislative authority. Distant as it may be in its present form from the Inquisition, it differs from it only in degree.
...
10.   Because it will have a like tendency to banish our Citizens. The allurements presented by other situations are every day thinning their number. To superadd a fresh motive to emigration by revoking the liberty which they now enjoy, would be the same species of folly which has dishonoured and depopulated flourishing kingdoms.
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11.   Because it will destroy that moderation and harmony which the forbearance of our laws to intermeddle with Religion has produced among its several sects. Torrents of blood have been spilt in the old world, by vain attempts of the secular arm, to extinguish Religious discord, by proscribing all difference in Religious opinion. Time has at length revealed the true remedy. Every relaxation of narrow and rigorous policy, wherever it has been tried, has been found to assuage the disease. The American Theatre has exhibited proofs that equal and compleat liberty, if it does not wholly eradicate it, sufficiently destroys its malignant influence on the health and prosperity of the State.
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12.   Because the policy of the Bill is adverse to the diffusion of the light of Christianity. The first wish of those who enjoy this precious gift ought to be that it may be imparted to the whole race of mankind. Compare the number of those who have as yet received it with the number still remaining under the dominion of false Religions; and how small is the former! Does the policy of the Bill tend to lessen the disproportion? No; it at once discourages those who are strangers to the light of revelation11 from coming into the Region of it; and countenances by example the nations who continue in darkness, in shutting out those who might convey it to them.
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13.   Because attempts to enforce by legal sanctions, acts obnoxious to so great a proportion of Citizens, tend to enervate the laws in general, and to slacken the bands of Society.
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14.   Because a measure of such singular magnitude and delicacy ought not to be imposed, without the clearest evidence that it is called for by a majority of citizens, and no satisfactory method is yet proposed by which the voice of the majority in this case may be determined, or its influence secured.
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15.   Because finally, “the equal right of every citizen to the free exercise of his Religion according to the dictates of conscience” is held by the same tenure with all our other rights. If we recur to its origin, it is equally the gift of nature; if we weigh its importance, it cannot be less dear to us
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-08-02-0163