Which person of the Trinity was within the pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night?

[Bible Highlighter]

Which person (or persons) of the Trinity was within the pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night?

"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night" (Exodus 13:21).

 

[Reborn1977]

Which person (or persons) of the Trinity was within the pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night?

"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night" (Exodus 13:21).

It was Jehovah, God the Father. Any place in Scripture were you see LORD in all capital letters it is a reference to God The Father.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It was Jehovah, God the Father. Any place in Scripture were you see LORD in all capital letters it is a reference to God The Father.

Interesting. The LORD revealed his backparts to Moses.

19 "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33:19-23).​

Yet, Scripture says, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." (John 6:46). "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18).

 

[royal priest]

God is omnipresent.Since
all three persons are God, then all three persons are in all places at all time.

 

[topher694]

Other: It doesn't matter

 

[KSykes]

Which person (or persons) of the Trinity was within the pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night?

"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night" (Exodus 13:21).

I say it is the God we know as Jesus(Yeshua) here is a FANTASTIC short (16 page) pdf piece I submit as my agreed opinion WHY i say it was Jesus.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...he+God+of+The+Old+Testament-Printable-W-Q.pdf

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Other: It doesn't matter

If the answer is in Scripture, then it is a part of our faith.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I say it is the God we know as Jesus(Yeshua) here is a FANTASTIC short (16 page) pdf piece I submit as my agreed opinion WHY i say it was Jesus.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...he+God+of+The+Old+Testament-Printable-W-Q.pdf

Thank you.

I will check it out.

 

[Reborn1977]

Interesting. The LORD revealed his backparts to Moses.

19 "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33:19-23).​

Yet, Scripture says, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." (John 6:46). "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18).

I am not positive of your point but there is nothing in the Hebrew language that indicates that God revealed anything more to Moses than His Presence, His Essence, not His physical self.

"goodness" in hte Hebrew = 2898. טוּב ṭûwb, toob; from 2895; good (as a noun), in the widest sense, espec. goodness (superl. concr. the best), beauty, gladness, welfare:— fair, gladness, good (-ness, thing, -s), joy, go well with.

"back parts" in the Hebrew = 268. אָחוֹר ˒âchôwr, aw-khore’; or (short.)

אָחֹר ˒âchôr, aw-khore’; from 299; the hinder part; hence, (adv.) behind, backward; also (as facing north) the West:— after (-ward), back (part, -side, -ward), hereafter, (be-) hind (-er part), time to come, without.

 

[topher694]

If the answer is in Scripture, then it is a part of our faith.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

fixed:
Faith comes by finding small insignificant things that have little or nothing to do with the actual purpose of the Word of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

fixed:
Faith comes by finding small insignificant things that have little or nothing to do with the actual purpose of the Word of God.

Jesus cared about jots and tittles.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

fixed:
Faith comes by finding small insignificant things that have little or nothing to do with the actual purpose of the Word of God.

Nobody is forcing you to be here. If you don't gain any enjoyment out of discovering the truths of God's Word like discussions like these, then why partake of them? Why discourage the brethren who do like to rejoice in the truth of His Word?

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." (Proverbs 25:2).

 

[KSykes]

I am not positive of your point but there is nothing in the Hebrew language that indicates that God revealed anything more to Moses than His Presence, His Essence, not His physical self.

"goodness" in hte Hebrew = 2898. טוּב ṭûwb, toob; from 2895; good (as a noun), in the widest sense, espec. goodness (superl. concr. the best), beauty, gladness, welfare:— fair, gladness, good (-ness, thing, -s), joy, go well with.

"back parts" in the Hebrew = 268. אָחוֹר ˒âchôwr, aw-khore’; or (short.)

אָחֹר ˒âchôr, aw-khore’; from 299; the hinder part; hence, (adv.) behind, backward; also (as facing north) the West:— after (-ward), back (part, -side, -ward), hereafter, (be-) hind (-er part), time to come, without.

I see that scripture as showing himself in “his Glory” Or his natural state. The creator of our universe must be of IMMENSE power. Imagine how one of the Levites died because he touched the ark of covenant directly instead with the poles they were to carry it with. When God traveled with the Israelites through the wilderness, man(the high priest) could only go into the holy of Holys area one day a year, a couple young boys went in there “unauthorized” and were fried alive.
I submit it was for Moses physical protection to only see him “in his natural/glory state”
We know he CAN and has appeared in human form to Abraham and to Adam and Eve.
Seems to me Moses asked to see him in his “GODLY” form.

I am sure I would want to also.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

When we receive Jesus, we receive a gift. This gift is the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth.

I believe that the Passover was symbolic of Christ's death upon the cross. 1 Corinthians 10:1-5 says that the Israelites were baptized in the red sea. The Israelites were saved by the Passover (i.e. Christ's death). After that, the pillar of cloud and fire led the Israelites to the Promised Land (Although the majority of them did not enter in because of unbelief). After Christ's resurrection, they received another Comforter (Which was the Holy Spirit). We are baptized into the Spirit when we are saved by Christ. We are convicted of our sin by the Spirit and repent to accept Jesus, and then we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift, and we are guided by His Word (the Bible) into all truth. The Israelites were also guided by the Spirit by the Pillar of cloud by day, and fire by night after the Passover (Accepting of the protection of the blood).

While the word "Lord" can refer to "Jesus," the word "Lord" can also refer to the Spirit, too.

15 "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it [i.e. the heart] shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Corinthians 3:15-18).​

Note: Words in blue within brackets is my commentary to the text above.

While I could be wrong, taking all of this biblical bits of information into account, this is why I currently believe that the person of the Trinity that was within the pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night was the Holy Spirit. Just as we are guided by the Spirit, the Israelites also were guided by the Spirit. This makes sense because Stephen said this,

"“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."
(Acts of the Apostles 7:51).

The Israelite forefathers complained and would not enter into the Promised Land. The pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night led them to the Promised Land. But the majority of them would not enter in. Most of them wanted to go back to Egypt and be slaves again.

Side Note:

In 1 Corinthians 10:1-5:

I believe that Rock that followed the Israelites through the Red Sea, etc. was Jesus Christ who carried the title of the: "Angel of the Lord" or the "angel of God." (See: Exodus 13, and Exodus 14). IMPORTANT: Christ is not literally a created angel. Jesus Christ is GOD, and He is the eternal second person of the Godhead or Trinity. Jesus is eternal and uncreated, and GOD. I believe the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night most likely contained the Holy Spirit (Which also followed the Israelites through the Red Sea).

Anyways, I believe that both Jesus, and the Holy Spirit followed behind the Israelites when they crossed the Red Sea.

 

[topher694]

Nobody is forcing you to be here. If you don't gain any enjoyment out of discovering the truths of God's Word like discussions like these, then why partake of them? Why discourage the brethren who do like to rejoice in the truth of His Word?

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." (Proverbs 25:2).

Did you not put "other" as an option and ask people to explain? Or is was there a rule I missed saying that it was only ok to respond if BH approved of your "other" option. You suggest I don't enjoy the truth of God's Word, which is a completely unfounded accusation. I gave my opinion and you have done nothing but attack since then. Who would enjoy that?

It is a very legitimate consideration. I have seen time and time again people explore the minutia of scripture, trying to force something in there that is not there, that they can't control and is not important to its meaning, and in doing so completely miss what is there, what they can control, and what truly is important. But if you don't gain any enjoyment out of such things then I guess attacking them does make sense.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So if the Holy Spirit was indeed within the pillar of cloud by day, we would expect to see some kind of parallel in the New Testament.

Clouds are made up of a different form of water and they release water (rain):

John 7:37-39

"In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" ​

If the Holy Spirit was indeed within the pillar of fire by night, we should expect to see some kind of parallel in the New Testament.

Acts of the Apostles 2:3-4

"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ​

So what about the part about how they are guided by night by the light of the pillar of fire?

Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21) (2 Timothy 3:16) (Ephesians 6:17).

So God's Word (the Bible) inspired by the Spirit leads us like a light while we are in this world of darkness.

Thy word is a lamp.

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." (Psalms 119:105).​

As the Spirit guides us with His Word in this dark world to God's Kingdom, the Israelite was guided by the Spirit with the pillar of cloud by day, and the pillar of fire by night to the Promised Land.

Also, why a pillar? Do we see a pillar in the New Testament?

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15).​

The church is the body of Christ formed around the truth of Scripture.
(Note: Jesus said to God the Father in prayer, "Sanctify them with your truth, your word is Truth."). The church are a people. They are the temple of the living God.

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Corinthians 3:16).​

Interesting how the church is referred to as a pillar in 1 Timothy 3:15 and yet 1 Corinthians 3:16 says we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

So if the church is called a pillar by which the Spirit is to dwell in like a temple, it could also be possible that the shape of the cloud (i.e. the pillar of cloud by day), and the shape of the fire (i.e. the pillar of fire by night) could be representative of the covering for the Holy Spirit guiding the Israelites to the Promised Land.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did you not put "other" as an option and ask people to explain? Or is was there a rule I missed saying that it was only ok to respond if BH approved of your "other" option. You suggest I don't enjoy the truth of God's Word, which is a completely unfounded accusation. I gave my opinion and you have done nothing but attack since then. Who would enjoy that?

It is a very legitimate consideration. I have seen time and time again people explore the minutia of scripture, trying to force something in there that is not there, that they can't control and is not important to its meaning, and in doing so completely miss what is there, what they can control, and what truly is important. But if you don't gain any enjoyment out of such things then I guess attacking them does make sense.

Well, it's my thread, and thereby my rules of how I desire of how this thread should be discussed. I only criticized your negative answer because your view goes outside the basics of how I believe a normal Bible discussion should go (in a question asked like this). The option of "other" (in the poll) was not intended to be pessimistic, negative, or insignificant to the question asked. The intention of this thread question was to get those believers who want to discuss the meaning behind things in Scripture (No matter how minor you or somebody else may think it may be to discuss such a thing). You see our discussion as being of no significance. By all means, continue to think that way, but do not disrupt this thread in the process.

Your view of believing certain things in the Bible as mundane was not my intention behind this thread. My discussion was to be a positive and healthy one for those who truly want to unlock the truths within God's Word in regards to the question asked. I understand that you do not regard Scripture in the same way I do, but please do not be a further disruption. I am sure if you gave this kind of answer to the same question asked in a small Bible study group, I would not be surprised if you get a similar response from them, as well.

Thank you;
And may God bless you (Even if we disagree strongly on the Bible).

 

[KSykes]

Well, it's my thread, and thereby my rules of how I desire of how this thread should be discussed. I only criticized your negative answer because your view goes outside the basics of how I believe a normal Bible discussion should go (in a question asked like this). The option of "other" (in the poll) was not intended to be pessimistic in towards others who want to discuss the meaning behind things in Scripture (No matter how minor you may think it may be to discuss such a thing). You see our discussion as being of no significance. By all means, continue to think that way, but do not disrupt this thread in the process. Your view of not believing certain things in the Bible was not my intention behind this thread. My discussion was to be a positive and healthy one for those who truly want to unlock the truths within God's Word in regards to the question asked. I understand that you do not regard Scripture in the same way I do, but please do not be a further disruption.

Thank you;
And may God bless you (Even if we disagree strongly on the Bible).

Sorry, but I think you overreacted to his choice of answer. I didn’t see anything offensive there.
Don’t be further disruptive...?
Wow!
I think I will move on from YOUR THREAD.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry, but I think you overreacted to his choice of answer. I didn’t see anything offensive there,

It was not his vote that I found offensive, but it was his answers.
So I disagree, my friend. His answer to the question of this thread was:

"Other: It doesn't matter" ~ Topher694​

He also said,

"fixed:
Faith comes by finding small insignificant things that have little or nothing to do with the actual purpose of the Word of God." ~ Topher694​

This is criticizing my thread and it's purpose. I also take a high offense to his lack of not wanting to dig into the truths within God's Word. Jesus cared about jots and tittles because not one jot and tittle was to pass away until all be fulfilled. I understand that there are Christians who do not hold the same regard as Scripture as me, and who do not feel that even the smallest details contain treasure within it (like I do), but I honestly do not want such believers interrupting my threads and insulting what I hold dear (Which is the Word of God).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

God wrote things in His Word because He cares for us.
Every word in our Bible is there because God cares for us and wants to guide us with His Word. God's Word is technically like a love letter.
If your fiance or spouse wrote you a love letter, and you have not seen them in a long time, and a person came along along who glanced at your letter and told you that their words do not matter (or they were insignificant), what would your reaction be?

I would take offense because I would naturally love my other half and I cared about what they wrote. To say that what they wrote has no significance is an insult, and hurtful. At least that is how I see it anyways. So if folks do not have a positive answer to the question asked I asked concerning the Bible, and they do not see any real truth behind the answer, they should not criticize.