Which Part of TULIP Do You Have the Most Trouble With?

[Sola1517]

For me it's Unconditional Election. I just don't see how that's in the Bible. The rest of TULIP checks out for me. If election is unconditional there is no reason why God would choose any sinner for redemption.

 

[Greg J.]

God knows an infinity of things that he has not revealed to us. How does anything he knows that he doesn't reveal to us affect us? Do we still not need to decide for ourselves the direction we want to go?

 

[Dave-W]

Having looked at all 5 points, I cannot pick out one as most troublesome. They all are interdependent. So I am bothered by them all.

 

[Thursday]

For me it's Unconditional Election. I just don't see how that's in the Bible. The rest of TULIP checks out for me. If election is unconditional there is no reason why God would choose any sinner for redemption.

I agree. If there are no conditions on salvation then what is the point of life on earth?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Limited atonement by a mile.

 

[victorinus]

For me it's Unconditional Election.

ditto

 

[dogs4thewin]

Unconditional election and preserve of the saints if EITHER of these are true what is the point of sharing the gospel and of having free will.

 

[RC1970]

For me it's Unconditional Election. I just don't see how that's in the Bible. The rest of TULIP checks out for me. If election is unconditional there is no reason why God would choose any sinner for redemption.

The interesting thing is that if you reject any of the five points, you must reject them all, for they are all logically consistent.

For instance, if man is totally depraved (sin has contaminated every part of his humanity) on what basis could God choose anyone except unconditionally?

Furthermore, if God chooses conditionally (seeing some good in man) how could you say he is total depraved?

 

[dogs4thewin]

The interesting thing is that if you reject any of the five points, you must reject them all, for they are all logically consistent.

For instance, if man is totally depraved (sin has contaminated every part of his humanity) on what basis could God choose anyone except unconditionally?

Furthermore, if God chooses conditionally (seeing some good in man) how could you say he is total depraved?

conditionally as in if they are willing to accept the gift.

 

[98cwitr]

Limited atonement by a mile.

Yeah I would agree, but it's simply a perception in either camp. It's basically saying that Christ's blood was spilled for the non-elect as well, which essentially means Christ's blood failed to save all it was intended by God for, which challenges God's Omniscience, Sovereignty, and Christ's power to save. That said, the Bible clearly says that Christ died "not just for us, but for the sins of the world." Which I think it a solid refutation of Limited Atonement theology as it is preached today.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Yeah I would agree, but it's simply a perception in either camp. It's basically saying that Christ's blood was spilled for the non-elect as well, which essentially means Christ's blood failed to save all it was intended by God for, which challenges God's Omniscience, Sovereignty, and Christ's power to save. That said, the Bible clearly says that Christ died "not just for us, but for the sins of the world." Which I think it a solid refutation of Limited Atonement theology as it is preached today.

But then there's a third camp: 1 Timothy 4:10: but talk of happy endings are frowned upon and forbidden in these parts so we'll leave it at that.

 

[RC1970]

conditionally as in if they are willing to accept the gift.

Which would be "good" and therefore they would not be totally depraved.

 

[Sola1517]

For instance, if man is totally depraved (sin has contaminated every part of his humanity) on what basis could God choose anyone except unconditionally?

If anyone does not accept Jesus for who he is (the second person of the Trinity) they are not elect. Am I right?

Furthermore, if God chooses conditionally (seeing some good in man) how could you say he is total depraved?

The Spirit draws the elect and they accept because they are predestined to.

 

[Sola1517]

Yeah I would agree, but it's simply a perception in either camp. It's basically saying that Christ's blood was spilled for the non-elect as well, which essentially means Christ's blood failed to save all it was intended by God for, which challenges God's Omniscience, Sovereignty, and Christ's power to save. That said, the Bible clearly says that Christ died "not just for us, but for the sins of the world." Which I think it a solid refutation of Limited Atonement theology as it is preached today.

While Jesus died for the sins of the whole world he did not die for the salvation of the whole world. That's my definition of Limited Atonement. Bottom line, Jesus dies for the elect only.

 

[Sola1517]

I agree. If there are no conditions on salvation then what is the point of life on earth?

Okay now, what is/are the conditions?

 

[Sola1517]

Unconditional election and preserve of the saints if EITHER of these are true what is the point of sharing the gospel and of having free will.

If perseverance of the Saints is true then the glory of God and the reconciliation of human beings back to him is the point. If God chooses who can keep God from what he wants?

 

[RC1970]

If anyone does not accept Jesus for who he is (the second person of the Trinity) they are not elect. Am I right?

The Spirit draws the elect and they accept because they are predestined to.

The reason that I am able to come to Christ is because of God's electing grace. So yes, a person who is not among the elect will never come to Christ. They will remain in their totally depraved condition.

 

[Sola1517]

The reason that I am able to come to Christ is because of God's electing grace. So yes, a person who is not among the elect will never come to Christ. They will remain in their totally depraved condition.

Many are invited by the Spirit, but few receive the call.

 

[Thursday]

Okay now, what is/are the conditions?

Here are a few:

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Heb 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Matt 6:15
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

 

[Thursday]

The reason that I am able to come to Christ is because of God's electing grace. So yes, a person who is not among the elect will never come to Christ. They will remain in their totally depraved condition.

God's grace reaches out to all men. If you are saved, it will be because you chose to cooperate with God's grace, which is a free gift to you and all men.