• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Which one of the 24 elders in Revelation 5:5 ?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


    I am pretty sure it is John the Baptist. Because...

    John 1:29 The next day John [the Baptist] seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +15,445
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Others
    Don’t think he was one of the 24.
     
  3. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

    357
    +113
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    Douggg, you be more accurate listening to what this John said instead.

    1 John 4:1 NKJV
    Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  4. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +2,055
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    well since the bible does not specify by name who the twelve elders (or any of them) are then to do so is being speculative ... but we are curious about many things.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I am not adamant that it is John the Baptist. But I am pretty sure.
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +2,055
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    well ... we will know for sure when we get to heaven ;o) could be ... could not be ... Jesus did say this ...

    Matthew 11:11
    11Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen (arose as a prophet) no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

    Nothing wrong with being curious ... curiosity helps us to eagerly search the word of God.

    Acts 17:10-11
    The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

    God Bless.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    One of the points I was making also - a side effect from studying the text in detail from arguing with @iamlamad in his thread - it was one of the elders who spoke. Not all of them.

    Which triggered why I think it is John the baptist - especially - if some vocal emphasis were placed on the "behold" when reading the text.
     
  8. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member Supporter

    399
    +198
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That's an interesting insight Douggg.

    I tend to go along with the majority of commentaries that say the 24 elders are from the recent rapture of the church (in context of the timing of Revelation 4). That would preclude John the Baptist being among them because he was the last of the Old Testament prophets.

    Having said that, however, I am completely open to the interpretation by some that the 24 elders might also include some of the faithful from before Jesus. You recall that after His death Jesus led "captivity captive" -- Eph 4:8. Many believe that is when the faithful who died before Christ were led from Abraham's bosom into heaven to be with Christ. In that case, John the Baptist could very well be among the 24 elders. I'd think he would certainly qualify.
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Why would it be rapture individuals, at the time of John ?

    When Jesus died, he went into the place of the dead, paradise and the bad side, and set them there free - which would have been how the 24 elders were in heaven, when John experienced Revelation.
     
  10. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member Supporter

    399
    +198
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Chapter 4 begins the "After this ..." part of Revelation that he was asked to record as per instructions in
    Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

    I'm among those who believe that the church is raptured before the events of Revelation 4 begin. There are many reasons I believe this, both connotatively and denotatively. Chief among them is that in Revelation 1-3 the lampstands representing the church are on earth. But by the time of Chapter 4, the lampstands are in heaven with Christ as he sits on the throne, and nowhere else in Revelation 4-19 is the church ever mentioned.

    Of course, there are many who disagree. :)
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I think the belief by many is that John being called up "represented the rapture". Not that John himself was experiencing the rapture.

    Some think the rapture to be pre-70th week. Others think maybe after the 70th week begins.

    Anyway John was called up in the first century. And the elders were already there.
     
  12. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member Supporter

    399
    +198
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    True, but don't forget that beginning with Chapter 4 are the "things which shall be hereafter;" so it is outside of John's time ... sometime in the future; which we know by now is at least almost 2,000 years into the future.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Well, we know the events in seals were future.
     
  14. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,469
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    To me, not naming can mean there is equality, so it doesn't matter which does what. They might be very great men, but only interested in being humble before Jesus, and not as though they are too superior to personally talk with John. There's no need for a name, because there is no status to be gained by talking with one of them, though they might be so great :)
     
  15. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +559
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    No, faulty reasoning because you are pulling things out of their 1st century context. NONE Of the elders can be a part of the church because the timing of Jesus being found worthy was right after he rose from the dead. This is EARLY church, not end of church.

    The elders are mostly likely Old Testament saints. Adam would be the eldest!
     
Loading...