Which exile is prior to their return back to the land in Ezekiel 38-39?

[DavidPT]

Ezekiel 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.


What ever exile that was prior to them returning back to their native land, once they are back in their land it then eventually involves these in verse 5 and 6 ascending upon them like a storm.

In 70 AD Jerusalem was attacked by the Romans, but did their armies consist of all the ones mentioned in verse 5 and 6? If no, this obviously means when they are back in their land it is not meaning during a time Christ walked the earth, the fact 70 AD does not agree with verse 5 and 6 unless someone thinks they can prove otherwise.

Then there are these verses to factor in.

Ezekiel 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

Verse 27 is apparently pertaining to the same thing Ezekiel 38:8 is---IOW--When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands---equals this in Ezekiel 38:8-----in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations

Ezekiel 38:8 also says this---and they shall dwell safely all of them---which then is referring to this in Ezekiel 39:26---when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

And finally, when they are back in their land it has to agree with when they are no longer in captivity among the heathen, and that none of them are anymore there, meaning they are no longer in their enemies' land ever again and are in their own land to never be exiled ever again.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Common sense says to me though maybe not to someone else, there eventually has to be an end to what is recorded in verse 24---and shall be led away captive into all nations---and that it results in them returning back to this same land, which is exactly what Ezekiel 38-39 is involving, that being a return to their land after what had happened to them because of what is recorded in Luke 21:20, meaning 70 AD.

One thing I'm somewhat convinced about in general, the way the OT and NT should be interpreted, all of the missing details in the NT, such as a return back to their land after what had happened to them because of what is recorded in Luke 21:20, these missing details are in the OT, therefore they don't need to be in the NT as well. Otherwise, how does one explain the vivid details involving a return to the land in Ezekiel 38-39 that the NT neglects to mention in detail like this? Why would the NT need to re-mention all of these details when they are already in the Bible to begin with?

 

[RandyPNW]

One thing I'm somewhat convinced about in general, the way the OT and NT should be interpreted, all of the missing details in the NT, such as a return back to their land after what had happened to them because of what is recorded in Luke 21:20, these missing details are in the OT, therefore they don't need to be in the NT as well. Otherwise, how does one explain the vivid details involving a return to the land in Ezekiel 38-39 that the NT neglects to mention in detail like this? Why would the NT need to re-mention all of these details when they are already in the Bible to begin with?

Yes, I agree that much that is mentioned in the OT is taken for granted and assumed as already understood in the NT. For example, the restoration of Israel at the end of the age is assumed by the question Jesus' disciples asked him, "When will Israel be restored?"

No details need to be given, since it is already assumed that most Jews recognized there hope lay in the future, at a time when they would never again have to suffer exile and punishment from God. The whole story does not have to be laid out again in the NT.

Also, when Jesus gave his Olivet Discourse, he speaks about his return. But there is no need to reiterate what he is coming back for. As Christians we look back and think he was only talking about the international Church. But at the time Jesus was only talking about Israel because he was as yet still in the OT era, when Israel alone was in view.

So the prophecy of Ezekiel hardly needed to be reiterated in the NT, except that we do read a little about it in the book of Revelation, seemingly after a thousand years of peace away from Satanic enticements to war. Obviously, this has to take place at the end of the present age, though, because it is only at the end of the present age that Israel is brought back from its Diaspora.

So what we seem to have is a restoration from Captivity, presently already beginning, still short of the spiritual revival, which will be completed at Christ's return. And just before Christ comes back to deliver them so that "never again" will they have to be destroyed, that's when the onslaught of Gog takes place.

Then, after a thousand years of peace, this same entity arises to attack Israel again, in a time of peace and freedom from international warfare. It appears to be either Russia or Islam. Pick your poison.

 

[DavidPT]

Yes, I agree that much that is mentioned in the OT is taken for granted and assumed as already understood in the NT. For example, the restoration of Israel at the end of the age is assumed by the question Jesus' disciples asked him, "When will Israel be restored?"

No details need to be given, since it is already assumed that most Jews recognized there hope lay in the future, at a time when they would never again have to suffer exile and punishment from God. The whole story does not have to be laid out again in the NT.

Also, when Jesus gave his Olivet Discourse, he speaks about his return. But there is no need to reiterate what he is coming back for. As Christians we look back and think he was only talking about the international Church. But at the time Jesus was only talking about Israel because he was as yet still in the OT era, when Israel alone was in view.

So the prophecy of Ezekiel hardly needed to be reiterated in the NT, except that we do read a little about it in the book of Revelation, seemingly after a thousand years of peace away from Satanic enticements to war. Obviously, this has to take place at the end of the present age, though, because it is only at the end of the present age that Israel is brought back from its Diaspora.

So what we seem to have is a restoration from Captivity, presently already beginning, still short of the spiritual revival, which will be completed at Christ's return. And just before Christ comes back to deliver them so that "never again" will they have to be destroyed, that's when the onslaught of Gog takes place.

Then, after a thousand years of peace, this same entity arises to attack Israel again, in a time of peace and freedom from international warfare. It appears to be either Russia or Islam. Pick your poison.

How do we make sense of some of the following if after the thousand years and after the 2nd coming, that that is what some of Ezekiel 38-39 is involving?

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD

If this is meaning after the thousand years and is meaning after Christ returns, why would He not already be known in the eyes of many nations during the thousand years, or better yet, known in the eyes of all nations, but aren't known in the eyes of many nations until after the thousand years? Should we assume something nonsensical, even though God would be bodily on the earth during the thousand years, many nations wouldn't even realize it at the time and don't realize that until after the thousand years?

 

[RandyPNW]

How do we make sense of some of the following if after the thousand years and after the 2nd coming, that that is what some of Ezekiel 38-39 is involving?

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD

If this is meaning after the thousand years and is meaning after Christ returns, why would He not already be known in the eyes of many nations during the thousand years, or better yet, known in the eyes of all nations, but aren't known in the eyes of many nations until after the thousand years? Should we assume something nonsensical, even though God would be bodily on the earth during the thousand years, many nations wouldn't even realize it at the time and don't realize that until after the thousand years?

All good questions, but 1st let me clarify. I'm saying that I think the Eze 38-39 passage will be fulfilled just prior to and at the return of Christ. Gog may be part of the Battle of Armageddon for all I know? But it appears that Israel is coming out of her long NT sleep, and about to be awakened as a spiritual nation at the return of Christ.

The reference to Gog in Rev 20 is different, but involves the same people. This time it happens *after* the Millennium.

Why don't people realize the Bible predicted all this? It's because in the Millennium, mortal humanity continues, just as it is today. People will still be spiritually blind in many places, even though Christianity appears to reign on earth. Satan will be bound to prevent international war, but still people will be sinners. They won't believe Bible prophecies if they don't have "eyes to see."

So at the end of the Millennium, people will once again show what sin is like when combined with the release of Satan from his prison. But it will end for Gog as he did before--Gog will be defeated and destroyed. Again, these are just my thoughts--I can't be dogmatic about this.

 

[keras]

What ever exile that was prior to them returning back to their native land, once they are back in their land it then eventually involves these in verse 5 and 6 ascending upon them like a storm.

As it will be the House of Israel , [NOT the House of Judah, the Jews] who will return back to all of the holy Land before Gog makes his attack; then it was their exile by Assyria in 722- 715 BC.

WE Christians are those people, from every tribe, race, nation and language. The people who Jesus came to save, the people who accepted the Salvation He offered; even though we never saw Him, the people who produce the fruit of the Spirit and the people who God will bless with protection and prosperity, as we live in all of the holy Land, being His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:8-13, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:6-8, Matthew 5:14-16

For our exile from the holy Land, God decreed a set time for it and we can return when that time is completed.
Ezekiel 4:4-5 ....I decree that the House of Israel be exiled for 390 years.
What? That passed before even Jesus' first Advent.
But we see in Leviticus 26:21, that our punishment would be multiplied by 7. Making a total of 2730 years of exile. Which is completed just about now.
Kind of interesting!

 

[DavidPT]

All good questions, but 1st let me clarify. I'm saying that I think the Eze 38-39 passage will be fulfilled just prior to and at the return of Christ. Gog may be part of the Battle of Armageddon for all I know? But it appears that Israel is coming out of her long NT sleep, and about to be awakened as a spiritual nation at the return of Christ.

The reference to Gog in Rev 20 is different, but involves the same people. This time it happens *after* the Millennium.

It appears to me that we are pretty much on the same page in regard to this.

Keras argues, since it involves the house of Israel, it does not involve the House of Judah, the Jews. What are your thoughts on that, as to who is meant by the house of Israel in these two chapters?

 

[DavidPT]

As it will be the House of Israel , [NOT the House of Judah, the Jews] who will return back to all of the holy Land before Gog makes his attack; then it was their exile by Assyria in 722- 715 BC.

WE Christians are those people, from every tribe, race, nation and language. The people who Jesus came to save, the people who accepted the Salvation He offered; even though we never saw Him, the people who produce the fruit of the Spirit and the people who God will bless with protection and prosperity, as we live in all of the holy Land, being His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:8-13, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:6-8, Matthew 5:14-16

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Let me get this straight. When verse 36 says----let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ---none of this is also meaning any of the house of Judah, the Jews? And that this is meaning the Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language. The people who Jesus came to save?

 

[keras]

Let me get this straight. When verse 36 says----let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ---none of this is also meaning any of the house of Judah, the Jews? And that this is meaning the Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language. The people who Jesus came to save?

Obviously when Peter says;...whom you have crucified.... he refers to the Jews. They went on to curse themselves, Matthew 27:25 and many prophesies tell of their virtual demise. Jeremiah 10:18, Hebrews 10:26-31

We Christians are the peoples, the chosen individuals, who have been saved by Jesus.
That fact makes us the Israelites of God, the overcomers for Him.

Of the apostate, Jesus rejecting peoples currently living in all of the holy Land, they will all be removed, Jeremiah 12:14, and only a Christian remnant will remain. To be joined by the faithful Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21

 

[RandyPNW]

It appears to me that we are pretty much on the same page in regard to this.

Keras argues, since it involves the house of Israel, it does not involve the House of Judah, the Jews. What are your thoughts on that, as to who is meant by the house of Israel in these two chapters?

Ezekiel foretold a removal of the distinction between Israel and Judah. So Judah became in effect "Israel" after the Persian Restoration. Don't believe me--believe the Bible. This is what Ezra and Nehemiah reads in a time *after* Judah returned from her Captivity. They refer to those who returned from Judah's Captivity as "Israel." Judah and Israel are no longer distinguished from that time on.

 

[grafted branch]

Why don't people realize the Bible predicted all this? It's because in the Millennium, mortal humanity continues, just as it is today. People will still be spiritually blind in many places, even though Christianity appears to reign on earth. Satan will be bound to prevent international war, but still people will be sinners. They won't believe Bible prophecies if they don't have "eyes to see."

What are your thoughts on Revelation 20:3 and Satan being bound from deceiving the nations <1484> ethnos? Is Satan only bound from war among Gentiles (ethnos) or is Satan also bound from war among the Jews?

If it’s both Jew and Gentiles, then does the word ethnos imply that the Jews are still in their diaspora during the 1,000 years?

 

[jeffweedaman]

One thing I'm somewhat convinced about in general, the way the OT and NT should be interpreted, all of the missing details in the NT, such as a return back to their land after what had happened to them because of what is recorded in Luke 21:20, these missing details are in the OT, therefore they don't need to be in the NT as well. Otherwise, how does one explain the vivid details involving a return to the land in Ezekiel 38-39 that the NT neglects to mention in detail like this? Why would the NT need to re-mention all of these details when they are already in the Bible to begin with?

Jesus needed to open the minds of his chosen ones who were brought up in the OT. It wasnt left to their interpretation was it?

They didnt understand them , they were dull and slow to believe , so why leave these OT scriptures open to our own personal interpretation.?
Jesus has led me in a more spiritual direction that has heavy Amill Spiritual overtones attached to it.

 

[RandyPNW]

What are your thoughts on Revelation 20:3 and Satan being bound from deceiving the nations <1484> ethnos? Is Satan only bound from war among Gentiles (ethnos) or is Satan also bound from war among the Jews?

In context, the satanic deception has to do with preventing people from believing they will achieve their aims by engaging in international wars. That is presently what world leaders believe, that if they impose their ideology peace will result from their kind of reign. This deception will go away when Satan is bound in the Millennium.

Rev 20.7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.

Notice that it is the "nations" who are temporarily liberated from deception. "Nations" is a political term, and refers not just to individual deception, but to "group think." Nations always fall in the present age because as people fail spiritually there is always some evil leader willing to impose his own ideology as an answer to the chaos. But nations will not be allowed to fall for this kind of "answer" during the Millennial reign of Christianity.

And clearly, the context indicates that the deception has to do with encouraging international war, and not just with personal deception in matters regarding salvation from sin. This is a particular "deception," in context related to international warfare, in my opinion.

Satan can be bound and people still suffer delusion. That's because delusion doesn't come only from delusion, but from God Himself, who allows delusion upon those who refuse to believe the truth. And I don't believe it requires the Devil to accomplish this, though He does allow this too.

2 Thes 2.10 They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

If it’s both Jew and Gentiles, then does the word ethnos imply that the Jews are still in their diaspora during the 1,000 years?

 

[grafted branch]

In context, the satanic deception has to do with preventing people from believing they will achieve their aims by engaging in international wars. That is presently what world leaders believe, that if they impose their ideology peace will result from their kind of reign. This deception will go away when Satan is bound in the Millennium.

Rev 20.7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.

Notice that it is the "nations" who are temporarily liberated from deception. "Nations" is a political term, and refers not just to individual deception, but to "group think." Nations always fall in the present age because as people fail spiritually there is always some evil leader willing to impose his own ideology as an answer to the chaos. But nations will not be allowed to fall for this kind of "answer" during the Millennial reign of Christianity.

And clearly, the context indicates that the deception has to do with encouraging international war, and not just with personal deception in matters regarding salvation from sin. This is a particular "deception," in context related to international warfare, in my opinion.

Satan can be bound and people still suffer delusion. That's because delusion doesn't come only from delusion, but from God Himself, who allows delusion upon those who refuse to believe the truth. And I don't believe it requires the Devil to accomplish this, though He does allow this too.

2 Thes 2.10 They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

I think we’re very close on this, I would agree that during the millennium, the Jews are not dispersed among the nations and no international war is taking place, at least between the Jews and Gentiles. However Satan is not bound from deceiving the Jews in the millennium.

My thoughts are this, there could be infighting among the Jews and they could provoke the Gentiles during the millennium. The Gentiles would not be able to respond with war until after the millennium.

Do you see any verses that would prevent Jewish infighting during the millennium?

 

[RandyPNW]

I think we’re very close on this, I would agree that during the millennium, the Jews are not dispersed among the nations and no international war is taking place, at least between the Jews and Gentiles. However Satan is not bound from deceiving the Jews in the millennium.

My thoughts are this, there could be infighting among the Jews and they could provoke the Gentiles during the millennium. The Gentiles would not be able to respond with war until after the millennium.

Do you see any verses that would prevent Jewish infighting during the millennium?

Well, first off, I don't see how Satan can deceive anybody, including the Jews, during the Millennium, because he is bound? But it is possible that even though he is bound he is able to transmit messages to his cohorts, and give orders in limited fashion, much like a cartel head is able to direct his gang while imprisoned.

I believe Israel will, in the Millennium, be a Christian country. So the infighting could be limited due to that. But we've seen how Christian countries have done in the present age! Infighting could still occur.

It does seem that the Jewish nation comes to intimidate and provoke Gog, who rises again at the end of the Millennium to attack the "camp of the saints," which seems to refer to Israel, because it is expressly identified as God's city, which must be Jerusalem?

Thanks for your thoughts--interesting conversation!

 

[grafted branch]

It does seem that the Jewish nation comes to intimidate and provoke Gog, who rises again at the end of the Millennium to attack the "camp of the saints," which seems to refer to Israel, because it is expressly identified as God's city, which must be Jerusalem?

Thanks for your thoughts--interesting conversation!

I would definitely agree with you on this point, the camp of the saints being Jerusalem.

It is interesting how the various eschatology views can have many things in common yet vary on the placement of when events occur.

 

[keras]

I think we’re very close on this, I would agree that during the millennium, the Jews are not dispersed among the nations and no international war is taking place, at least between the Jews and Gentiles. However Satan is not bound from deceiving the Jews in the millennium.

My thoughts are this, there could be infighting among the Jews and they could provoke the Gentiles during the millennium. The Gentiles would not be able to respond with war until after the millennium.

Do you see any verses that would prevent Jewish infighting during the millennium?

I am astounded at this type of speculation.
Read Matthew 25:31-34 for who it will be that will take possession of the Kingdom.
There will be no other peoples on earth [or in heaven] for the Millennium.

Only after the thousand years is over and Satan is released for a short time, will there be other people. God will incinerate them. Revelation 20:7-9

 

[grafted branch]

I am astounded at this type of speculation.
Read Matthew 25:31-34 for who it will be that will take possession of the Kingdom.
There will be no other peoples on earth [or in heaven] for the Millennium.

Only after the thousand years is over and Satan is released for a short time, will there be other people. God will incinerate them. Revelation 20:7-9

I’m not Premil, I was just comparing notes.

I think the millennium was the time from the cross to approx 66AD and Satans little season was until 70AD. I think the people that got “incinerated” were those who remained in Jerusalem and didn’t flee.

 

[DavidPT]

Jesus needed to open the minds of his chosen ones who were brought up in the OT. It wasnt left to their interpretation was it?

They didnt understand them , they were dull and slow to believe , so why leave these OT scriptures open to our own personal interpretation.?
Jesus has led me in a more spiritual direction that has heavy Amill Spiritual overtones attached to it.

I don't get why you are having an issue with what I'm proposing? Hmmm...or maybe I do after all, as in, it could have something to do with you being Amill, and that some of these details in the OT don't make sense if applied to Amill.

For example. How does Amill account for the following if there are no more days remaining after Christ returns?

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


This is apparently referring to this in Revelation 19.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

And guess what that means?

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.


It means these verses above fit at the end of Revelation 19 unless you or someone can undeniably prove Ezekiel 39:17-21 is not involving anything Revelation 19:17-21 is involving.


Instead of trying to actually debunk anything I'm proposing here, in the event you disagree with what I'm proposing, it's much simpler to simply insist I am wrong and that you are correct, as in nothing to see here folks, there is nothing to try and debunk.

 

[DavidPT]

I’m not Premil, I was just comparing notes.

I think the millennium was the time from the cross to approx 66AD and Satans little season was until 70AD. I think the people that got “incinerated” were those who remained in Jerusalem and didn’t flee.

You are obviously not paying good attention to the text then. In Revelation 20 the camp of the saints are not meaning unbelieving Jews. In Revelation 20 it is the camp of the saints being attacked and then their attackers being destroyed. Nothing remotely like that happened in 70 AD where it was the attackers being destroyed rather than the ones being attacked being destroyed.

All it takes sometimes is just using a little logic. The camp of the saints being attacked but not harmed, and that it is then the attackers being harmed, does not equal the unbelieving Jews being attacked by the Romans in 70 AD and it then resulting in the ones being attacked being harmed. Contradictions don't equal truth, they equal the opposite of truth.

 

[BillCody]

Joel 3:1-3
1 “For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will gather all the nations
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
Then I will enter into judgment with them there
On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
And they have divided up My land.
3 They have also cast lots for My people,
Traded a boy for a prostitute,
And sold a girl for wine so that they may drink.

I think this is exile that you are looking for.