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Which day to worship God.

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Cribstyl, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Nope - that wasn't me - that was you.
     
  2. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    There is only one seventh day Sabbath instituted at creation and reconfirmed at Sinai... the same seventh day Sabbath Jesus and the disciples kept.
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Nope it was you alright trying to make claims that Matthew 28:1 has been incorrectly translated in all bible translations
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Goodness ECR, not seen you in a while brother. Welcome back. :wave:
     
  5. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    If I show you the Greek in the New Testament that indicates there are two sets of sabbaths - are you going to obey?
     
  6. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Welcome to the OP's games...
     
  7. ziggy29

    ziggy29 Junior Member Supporter

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    Like I said.... "The Bible did not reference a calendar and say which day of the week to make holy."

    Jewish traditions are fine and good, and those who follow those traditions should honor it, but it ain't in the Bible. It makes sense that they observe the Sabbath on Saturday, because in the calendar, Sunday is the first day and Saturday is the seventh day. But the Bible doesn't reference a calendar or suggest that Saturday (or Sunday) is the Sabbath.

    And really... what do you tell people who have no choice but to work on the day their faith calls the Sabbath? Should they fall on their swords and resign, or be fired, to not work it? The nature of employment and the economy is obviously a lot different than it was 2000 to 3000 years ago.
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Please show me again. I am happy to share God's WORD with you again. We did this before so you will know what the outcome will be. Only God's WORD is true brother and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4
     
  9. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Yet you did not answer the question as to why it's translated "Sabbath" in one phrase and "first day of the week" in the very next phrase - even though it's the word "sabbath" in the Greek.

    Noooo.... You tried to say that's the way it's translated in all of the Scriptures (They always used the word Sabbaton for "first day of the week") and I proved to you out of the Hebrew that wasn't even true.

    But of course you're not going to listen to me!

    LOL
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Well that is not true. You were shown that one of the GREEK word meanings for SABBATON means WEEK and that depending in the within scripture and chapter context determines the GREEK or HEBREW word meanings. You were also shown that at the time of the resurrection was the FEAST of FIRST FRUITS sabbaths plural.

    Then you were shown that nearly every bible translation of MATTHEW 28:1 is in reference to μία (mia) σάββατον (sabbaton) being translated as first of the week or first day of the week which has been correctly translated that way in nearly every bible translation. Of course your correct however in your view if you believe every Hebrew and Greek bible scholar has the translations wrong for nearly every bible translation and you are correct.

    And.. No I have never said anywhere that SABBATON is translated that way in every scripture anywhere. Your making this up. Why pretend I have said something I have never said? Please brother by all means post the link?

    I am always happy to listen to you brother and share Gods' WORD with you.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  11. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Yet "sabbaton" in the Old Testament is never translated "first day of the week"! Sooo.... why is it suddenly translated that in the Greek? (Ya never answered that question!)

    Now there is only one other place in the NT that says ".... I fast twice a week...." (Luke 18:12) where that word "week" is also the word "Sabbaton". The word "twice" in this verse is not derived from the number two. Which it could be because it's done that way in other passages. It's the word "again" and it's only used in 6 places. "... I fast again on the Sabbath..."

    Mark 14:30 & 72 "... before the (rooster) crows "again"; you will...."

    (Now for those who understand that the "(rooster) crowing" was not a literal chicken - this would make more contextual sense. The "(rooster) crowing" was a colloquial term used for a series of trumpet blasts that called soldiers to watch. This was on 6 hour rotations.)

    Luke 18:12 "... fast "again" on the Sabbath..." (singular).
    Philippians 4:16 ".... Thessalonica you sent once and "again"..."
    1 Thessalonians 2:18 ".....even I Paul; come to you once and "again"...."
    Jude 12 "... trees who's fruit withers, trees with no fruit, "again" dead...."

    Yet if you go over into the Hebrew. The word "week" in Hebrew is not the word "Sabbaton". So if they transliterated "Sabbath" into the Greek, why not the word "week" too? If "holy men of old wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit"; there has to be a particular intention that transliterating "week" also did not happen.

    So "..... fast again on the Sabbath...." "Sabbath" is in the singular. If you're fasting "two" in the "Sabbath"; you'd either have to make "sabbath" plural, or stick the word "day" in there. "... two (days) in Sabbath (week)..." But "days" isn't even in there. "..... two in sabbaths.." doesn't make sense either. but ".... again on Sabbath...." makes sense.

    Add on to this though that they weren't actually allowed to fast on the sabbath. You had to eat one meal; but you did not have to eat two. So he fasts one day and "again on the Sabbath...." That makes the most contextual sense; seeing how there was a plethora of ways this could have been rendered; but it was not rendered those ways.

    All the rest of the renderings: "..... toward the beginning of Sabbaths.." are all rendered "1st day of the week".

    The other issue is that any "other day of the week" in the Greek is rendered as "X days before (named day event). So if Holy Spirit wanted to avoid using the word "Sabbath" because the 7th day Sabbath "is so special"; He could have rendered all these verses in question as "6 days before the next Sabbath"; but Noooo..... that isn't what the text says either!

    It was transliterated out of the Hebrew this way for a specific reason; which points us to the fact that there are two sets of sabbaths.
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Different language brother it's not hard. Look at the application and word use in MATTHEW 28:1 with primary desciptive mia (first of). The HEBREW word used for sabbath is שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) which means; Intensive from H7673 (REST; GENESIS 2:1-3); intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath. The GREEK translation of the HEBREW word שׁבּת; shabbâth into the GREEK language is σάββατον; sabbaton (G4521) which means the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

    So the tranlsation of the HEBREW word שׁבּת; shabbâth into the GREEK language sabbaton is based on the HEBREW word usage and application. One of those meanings being a WEEK which when used with mia sabbaton in MATTHEW 28:1 is translated as the first of the week or as most bible translations say; the first day of the week.

    PARRALLEL BIBLE TRANSLATIONS MATTHEW 28:1

    New International Version
    After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

    English Standard Version
    Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

    Berean Study Bible
    After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

    Berean Literal Bible
    And after the Sabbaths, it being dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

    New American Standard Bible
    Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

    King James Bible
    In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

    Christian Standard Bible
    After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

    Contemporary English Version
    The Sabbath was over, and it was almost daybreak on Sunday when Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

    Good News Translation
    After the Sabbath, as Sunday morning was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

    International Standard Version
    After the Sabbaths, around dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to take a look at the burial site.

    NET Bible
    Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

    New Heart English Bible
    Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But on the eve of the Sabbath, when the first of the week was dawning, Maryam Magdalitha and the other Maryam came to see the tomb.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    After the day of worship, as the sun rose Sunday morning, Mary from Magdala and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

    New American Standard 1977
    Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

    King James 2000 Bible
    At the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

    American King James Version
    In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

    American Standard Version
    Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    AND in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

    Darby Bible Translation
    Now late on sabbath, as it was the dusk of the next day after sabbath, came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary to look at the sepulchre.

    English Revised Version
    Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

    Weymouth New Testament
    After the Sabbath, in the early dawn of the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre.

    World English Bible
    Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

    So once again brother, Of course your correct however in your view if you believe every Hebrew and Greek bible scholar have all the translations wrong for nearly every bible translation and you are correct. You need to refer back to the CONTEXT of scripture and chapter use of the GREEK word SABBATON where one of the meanings is WEEK.

    PS. In answer to your question, as well as the above take a look at the Brown-Driver-Briggs a few posts down to look at the HEBREW use of Shabbath (sabbath not being restricted to the 7th day of the week) but also to the day of atonement, sabbath of years, week and sabbath of the land.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The correct translation here in Luke 18:12 is as most bible tranlsation have it. Which is I fast twice in the week. Young literal translation; I fast twice in the week. The primary GREEK word being δίς; dis, σάββατον; sabbaton reference again is two or twice in the week which is the way it has been correctly translated in nearly every bible translation. Reference is to fasting in the week which is one of the GREEK meaning of SABBATON to WEEK. The use of SABBATON used in reference to WEEK in Luke 18:12 is in reference to WEEK and is singular to the application of WEEK. So once again brother, Of course your correct however in your view if you believe every Hebrew and Greek bible scholar have all the translations wrong for nearly every bible translation and you are correct. You need to refer back to the CONTEXT of scripture and chapter use of the GREEK word SABBATON where one of the meanings is WEEK. In the references you have provided in LUKE 18:12 and MATTHEW 28:1 both scripture references are used for SABBATON's GREEK word meaning of WEEK and not the SEVENTH DAY.

    PARALLEL BIBLE TRANSLATIONS LUKE 18:12

    New International Version
    I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

    New Living Translation
    I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.'

    English Standard Version
    I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

    Berean Study Bible
    I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I receive.’

    Berean Literal Bible
    I fast twice in the week; I tithe all things, as many as I gain.'

    New American Standard Bible
    'I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.'

    King James Bible
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Christian Standard Bible
    I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.'

    Contemporary English Version
    I go without eating for two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all I earn."

    Good News Translation
    I fast two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all my income.'

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.'

    International Standard Version
    I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.'

    NET Bible
    I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.'

    New Heart English Bible
    I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.'

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    “But I fast twice in a week and I tithe everything that I possess.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my entire income.'

    New American Standard 1977
    ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’

    King James 2000 Bible
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    American King James Version
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    American Standard Version
    I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Darby Bible Translation
    I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain.

    English Revised Version
    I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Weymouth New Testament
    I fast twice a week. I pay the tithe on all my gains.'

    World English Bible
    I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.'

    Young's Literal Translation
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Why would it need to? Your referring to different languages with the original being the HEBREW that has been translated into the GREEK language. Don't forget the HEBEW word SHABBATH also means from one sabbath to another and can be translated as weeks by counting the number of Sabbaths. In the HEBREW the use of the word שׁבּת; shabbâth (H7676) is used for; 1. Seventh day weekly Sabbath; 2. Day of atonement; 3. Sabbath year; 4. WEEKS; 5. Sabbath of the land

    Brown-Driver-Briggs
    שַׁבָּת111 noun feminineEx 31:41+ and masculineIsaiah 66:2,6 (under influence of יוֺם in frequent ׳יוֺם הַשּׁ, AlbrZAW xvi (1896), 47) sabbath ( = ת + שׁבת; Late Hebrew שַׁבָּת, Aramaic שַׁבְּתָא, [​IMG]; perhaps Assyrian šabattum (""um nu— libbi, day of rest of heart (i.e. propitiation) [of deity]: only in lexical Tablets); compare LotzQuaest. de hist. Sabbati, 1883 JenZA iv (1889), 274 ff. (doubts connection of Assyrian word with Hebrew Sabbath) IdS. S. Times, Jan. 16, 1892, 35 f. Muss-ArnJBL xi (1892), 93 SchwIdioticon 127; see (more recently) JastrAmos. J. Theol. ii (1898), 332 ff. ToyTBL xviii (1899), 190 ff. DrHast. DB SABBATH (1902) ZimKAT 3. 592 ff.; ZMG 1904, 199 ff. [15th day of month so called]458ff.); — absolute ׳שׁ Exodus 16:25 64t.; construct שַׁבַּת Exodus 16:23 10t.; suffix שַׁבַּתּוֺ Numbers 28:10 3t. suffix; plural שַׁבָּתוֺת Leviticus 23:15 7t.; construct שַׁבְּתתֹ Leviticus 23:38; Leviticus 25:3,8; suffix שַׁבְּתוֺתַי Isaiah 56:4 +, etc.; —

    1
    sabbath: a. primitive ליהוה ׳שׁ Exodus 16:25 (J), Exodus 20:10 = Deuteronomy 5:14 (ten words) Leviticus 23:3 (P); ׳הַשּׁ Exodus 16:29 (J); בַּיוֺם ׳הַשְּׁבִיעִי שׁ Exodus 16:26 (J); on seventh day יוֺם הַשַּׁבָּת Exodus 20:8,11 = Deuteronomy 5:12,15 (ten words), so throughout; Exodus 31:15 3t. P, Jeremiah 17:21; Ezekiel 46:4; Nehemiah 10:32 9t., + ("" new moon) Isaiah 1:13; Ezekiel 46:1; 2 Kings 4:23; Amos 8:5, compare Isaiah 66:23 (twice in verse), also חג and מועד Hosea 2:13; time of change of watch in temple 2 Kings 11:5,7,9 (twice in verse) = 2Chronicles 23:4,8 (twice in verse); מיסך ׳הַשּׁ (in temple) 2 Kings 16:18; originally observed simply by abstinence from labour Exodus 20:9,10 = Deuteronomy 5:12-14; Exodus 23:12 (E), Exodus 34:21 (J; BrHex. 181-195).

    b. Deuteronomic reason for day is deliverance from Egypt Deuteronomy 5:15, hence its consecration, לְקַדְּשׁוֺ Deuteronomy 5:12 = Exodus 20:8; ׳קדּשׁ יום השׁ Jeremiah 17:22,24,27 (especially no load carried), Ezekiel 20:20; Ezekiel 44:24.

    c. intensified by anith. ׳חלּל שׁ Ezekiel 20:13 5t. Ezekiel; compare Nehemiah 13:18. Phrases in H: ׳שׁמר (ה)שׁ Leviticus 19:3,10; Leviticus 26:2, then P Exodus 31:13,14,16; compare Isaiah 56:2,4,6; יוֺם קָדְשִׁי, ׳קדושׁ י: Isaiah 58:13 (twice in verse) (with כבּד). H also שַׁבְּתֹתֵיכֶם Leviticus 26:35; ׳מִמָּחֳרַת הַשּׁ Leviticus 23:11,15,16; שַׁבְּתוֺתַי Leviticus 19:3,30; Leviticus 26:2; Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:12; Ezekiel 22:26, +8 t. Ezekiel; "" מוֺעֵד Lamentations 2:6.

    d. P gives as basis God's resting Exodus 20:11; Exodus 31:17; ׳שׁבתות י Leviticus 23:38; קדשׁ ׳שׁ ליהוה Exodus 16:23, compare Nehemiah 9:14, שׁבתון ׳שׁ Exodus 31:15; Exodus 35:2; Leviticus 23:3; ׳עשׂה השׁ Exodus 31:16, בְּשַׁבַּתּוֺ ׳עֹלַת שׁ Numbers 28:10, compare Isaiah 66:23; ׳בְּיוֺם הַשּׁ ׳בְּיוֺם הַשּׁ Leviticus 24:8 on every sabbath, abbreviation שַׁבַּת שַׁבָּת 1 Chronicles 9:32; לַשַּׁבָּתוֺת "" חֳדָשִׁים + מועדים 1 Chronicles 23:31 3t. Chronicles, Nehemiah 10:34 (ל omitted by error); work punished by stoning Numbers 15:32,36; trade prohibited Nehemiah 10:32; Nehemiah 13:15-21.

    2. day of atonement is a שַׁבַּת שַׁבָּתוֺן Leviticus 16:31; Leviticus 23:32 (P), compare שָׁבַת שַׁבָּת Leviticus 23:32 (P).

    3. sabbath year, שַׁבַּת שַׁבָּתוֺן Leviticus 25:4 (H); שַׁבָּת ליהוה Leviticus 25:2; Leviticus 25:4 (H), שַׁבְּתוֺתֶיהָ רצה (הארץׅ Leviticus 26:34 (twice in verse); Leviticus 26:43 (H), 2 Chronicles 36:21.

    4. week: שֶׁבַע שַׁבָּתוֺת Leviticus 23:15 (H), seven sabbaths or weeks; שֶׁבַע שַׁבְּתתֹ (ה)שָּׁנִים Leviticus 25:8; Lev 28:8 (H) seven sabbaths or weeks (of years), uncertain (see Mark 16:2,9; Luke 18:12; Matthew 28:1, compare Jewish-Aramaic usage); possibly שַׁבָּת Isaiah 66:23 = week (Du).

    5. שַׁבַּת הָאָ֫רֶץ Leviticus 25:6 (H) = produce in sabbath year (growing of itself).

    So nope brother your word renderings and applications are incorrect
    Once again you lose your word meanings and applications when used within the scripture and chapter context. What you are suggesting is that every bible scholar and nearly every bible translataion is incorrect as they all come up with a different tranlation and word usage then you do. I suggest you go take a few more classes brother. It is the word application within the scripture and chapter context that determines the GREEK or HEBREW word meanings. This is something you have lost in your interpretation of the scriptures.

    Only sent in love as a help brother

    God bless
     
  15. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Does not explain why those wrote the New Testament only transliterated the word Sabbath. The language is not consistent from one testament to the other. There has to be a reason for that. You have not answered that reason.
     
  16. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    The Hebrew word for Sabbath is derived from the word "rest". The Hebrew word "week" is derived from the word "seven". Why did the writers of the New Testament not carry that same transliteration into the Greek? There is a reason for that; which you have not answered. (And you can't answer because it contradicts your view on sabbath keeping.)

    The translators translated it "first day of the week" probably because they did not want anyone to mistake what day they were meeting on. They were meeting on Sundays. Sunday is a new set of Sabbaths. This is also why the word Sabbath in those verses is in the plural. In the Old Testament when they talked about a single sabbath; the word was singular. When they talked about a group of sabbaths that made up number of weeks or years; it was plural. (And the Hebrew literally says in those instances "seven weeks of sabbaths". That is quite clear; but again - You refuse to be obedient to the now new nuance in which the language is used.) The New Testament carried the singular / plural over too. Some places "sabbath is singular"; other places it's plural. And in all the places in the New Testament that it's plural; this is going from one set of sabbaths to the next set of sabbaths.

    A consensus of translators that say "first day of the week" does not give you the whole picture of what's going on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  17. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    No, I understand why they translated it "1st day of the week"; you don't want to obey why the New Testament writers used the word "sabbath".
     
  18. Cribstyl

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    Yes, I posted 1 sentence and 1 set of consistent scriptures to start a thread. Why do You appear cut to pieces? The word of God is not a game of piecing together whatever seems clever.

    Doctrine are clearly laid out for those who seek truth. There is nothing dishonest or deceptive in the 1 sentence I posted in addition to the scriptures in blue. Those who don’t want to explain Rom 14 will highjack this thread with their stale agenda.
     
  19. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,833
    Christian
    Single
    You posted what I said you did, a lot about being judgmental, not sure what your point is with the post I'm replying to, are you saying you didn't?

    On the "cut to pieces" and "not a game" remark, I have no idea what any of that means, so you tell me, why do I appear so cut to pieces?
     
  20. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,305
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Have a good day sir
     
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