Which Commandments were engraved in letters on stone?

[Saint Steven]

This is the way I see it.

In the garden, all they knew was love and being entirely good. The good that they did - obeying God and loving each other and the animals - they did naturally. No struggle.

Eve didn't want to sin. She wasn't out looking for it. She was talked into it by the serpent. She didn't know any better, as she had never been lied to before. Her sin was a trespass, an unintentional sin. Adam on the other hand, committed a willful sin. This is why she wasn't naked until after Adam willfully sinned. Adam's was rebellion against God, and he knew what he was doing. He condemned them both, and they both became naked.

After willful sin and eating of the tree, they had to force themselves to do good, or choose to do evil. They had to make choices all the time. Always a struggle. They weren't entirely bad, or entirely good.

Here's my take. How I read it. (parody)

Adam and Eve were naked an unashamed. (as of end of chapter two)

Enter chapter three.
We are introduced to a talking serpent, a real snake, except with legs. Not just a talker, a smooth talking swindler. No one seems surprised. Just another day at the office. Yawn.

Scuttlebutt at the water cooler is something about God not really meaning what he said. The serpent suggests that God can't make good on his threat. Eve enters the discussion with some misinformation she got from Adam. She wasn't in the meeting. She had only read Adam's memo. A random memo at that. We have called them memorandums ever since. Not sure why we changed the spelling of random... But I digress.

Eve relates that touching the forbidden fruit on the office plant is forbidden. The office maintenance guy (serpent) shows that this just ain't the case. He has the inside scoop. Claims the goods are being withheld from the employees. They would benefit from the transaction and be more like the Boss. He obviously doesn't want that, since he wants to keep everyone under his thumb.

Eve considers her options while Adam stands by silent, hoping not to get busted for falsified meeting notes. Eve is ready to make an executive decision. All things considered, it seems best to move forward with the acquisition.

She takes a bite and looks at Adam. Hmm... "This is delicious, try some." she says. Adam concedes, he's just a follower anyway. Why God made him Manager is anybody's guess. Suddenly everything goes sideways.

Adam and Eve realize that they are in violation of the company dress code, which doesn't make any sense, they have always been fine before. It's this SCREAMING accusatory voice in their head that is hollering shameful crazy things at them. Next thing you know they are scurrying around the office trying to cover themselves with copy paper stapled into jackets and skirts, whatever that is.

Then they hear the Boss show up to the office. Quickly they hide in the broom closet. They don't want the big guy to see them like this. (which makes no sense)

This points to one of the biggest unanswered questions in the text. "Who told you that you were naked?" (who indeed) I think the maintenance guy was sent from a sinister crime organization to do the company in for good. Seems he succeeded. But wait...

I think you know the rest of the story. Demotions, consequences, firings, unpaid relocations, what a mess.

 

[Shempster]

Summary:

The Ten Commandments, which were engraved in letters on stone, is what the Apostle is calling the ministry that brought death. Because the letter of the law kills, it can only bring condemnation. Though the law came with glory, it has no glory now. It was transitory, giving way to the new covenant.

Therefore, we are ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. Because the Spirit gives life. Though the ministry that brought death was glorious, it has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory of that which lasts!

IMO, what he means is not that the letter itself, the commandments themselves, kill. But that following the letter without the SPIRIT behind it won't make one righteous.
WE know that one day God said he will write the law on peoples hearts so they will naturally obey it. So that is the purpose of the law and the meaning behind it.

So we are expected to keep the commandments from within our hearts, not just outwardly appearing to be following the rules.
Does that make sense?

 

[Saint Steven]

IMO, what he means is not that the letter itself, the commandments themselves, kill. But that following the letter without the SPIRIT behind it won't make one righteous.
WE know that one day God said he will write the law on peoples hearts so they will naturally obey it. So that is the purpose of the law and the meaning behind it.

So we are expected to keep the commandments from within our hearts, not just outwardly appearing to be following the rules.
Does that make sense?

On some level it does make sense. But let's compare the differences between the two ministries.

The commandments engraved in stone (the TCs) are the ministry that brought death. The letters that kill and bring condemnation, that were transitory in nature. That were glorious upon arrival but have no glory now.

Is that what you want written on your heart? Or would you prefer...

… the ministry of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. Because the Spirit gives life with the surpassing glory of that which lasts!

I would prefer to have that written on my heart. And you?

 

[Shempster]

On some level it does make sense. But let's compare the differences between the two ministries.

The commandments engraved in stone (the TCs) are the ministry that brought death. The letters that kill and bring condemnation, that were transitory in nature. That were glorious upon arrival but have no glory now.

Is that what you want written on your heart? Or would you prefer...

… the ministry of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. Because the Spirit gives life with the surpassing glory of that which lasts!

I would prefer to have that written on my heart. And you?

Not sure if I understand you here. So does the "ministry of the new covenant" not reflect the 10 commandments?

 

[Hillsage]

Not sure if I understand you here. So does the "ministry of the new covenant" not reflect the 10 commandments?

I think the thing that might be missed so far is this; Just what "law" is being talked about in various quoted passages? Are we talking about the "Law of sin and death" as was brought to light in Genesis and again in Romans 1 and 2 quoted by Steven? Or are we talking about the "law of liberty" which was brought to light in James. Or are we dealing with the "Law of Moses" which was given to make the "law of sin and death" INCREASE?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not sure if I understand you here. So does the "ministry of the new covenant" not reflect the 10 commandments?

The Apostle is comparing two CONFLICTING ministries.
1) The ministry of the new covenant, and
2) The ministry that brought death, which was
engraved in letters on stone. (the Ten Commandments)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death,
which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at
the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now
in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[Saint Steven]

Not sure if I understand you here. So does the "ministry of the new covenant" not reflect the 10 commandments?

This may help. I think there are a few things you overlooked in Hebrews chapter eight.
See bold red below. Verses 7, 9, and 13.

Hebrews 8:7-13
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[Shempster]

I think the thing that might be missed so far is this; Just what "law" is being talked about in various quoted passages? Are we talking about the "Law of sin and death" as was brought to light in Genesis and again in Romans 1 and 2 quoted by Steven? Or are we talking about the "law of liberty" which was brought to light in James. Or are we dealing with the "Law of Moses" which was given to make the "law of sin and death" INCREASE?

Just some thoughts.

Well it was the 10 commandments I suppose because he mentions the stone carvings.

 

[Hillsage]

Well it was the 10 commandments I suppose because he mentions the stone carvings.

I believe that "stone carvings" is only mentioned one time in scripture in 2 Corinthians. And it says nothing about 'that law' being the law that started death. But it was the 'stone carvings law' which increased trespasses. And with INCREASED tresspasses/temptations, came increased SIN.

ROM 5:20 Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

"The law of sin and death" preexisted the "law of Moses", that's simply bible, as the above verse proves IMO.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Here's my take. How I read it. (parody)

Adam and Eve were naked an unashamed. (as of end of chapter two)

Enter chapter three.
We are introduced to a talking serpent, a real snake, except with legs. Not just a talker, a smooth talking swindler. No one seems surprised. Just another day at the office. Yawn.

Scuttlebutt at the water cooler is something about God not really meaning what he said. The serpent suggests that God can't make good on his threat. Eve enters the discussion with some misinformation she got from Adam. She wasn't in the meeting. She had only read Adam's memo. A random memo at that. We have called them memorandums ever since. Not sure why we changed the spelling of random... But I digress.

Eve relates that touching the forbidden fruit on the office plant is forbidden. The office maintenance guy (serpent) shows that this just ain't the case. He has the inside scoop. Claims the goods are being withheld from the employees. They would benefit from the transaction and be more like the Boss. He obviously doesn't want that, since he wants to keep everyone under his thumb.

Eve considers her options while Adam stands by silent, hoping not to get busted for falsified meeting notes. Eve is ready to make an executive decision. All things considered, it seems best to move forward with the acquisition.

She takes a bite and looks at Adam. Hmm... "This is delicious, try some." she says. Adam concedes, he's just a follower anyway. Why God made him Manager is anybody's guess. Suddenly everything goes sideways.

Adam and Eve realize that they are in violation of the company dress code, which doesn't make any sense, they have always been fine before. It's this SCREAMING accusatory voice in their head that is hollering shameful crazy things at them. Next thing you know they are scurrying around the office trying to cover themselves with copy paper stapled into jackets and skirts, whatever that is.

Then they hear the Boss show up to the office. Quickly they hide in the broom closet. They don't want the big guy to see them like this. (which makes no sense)

This points to one of the biggest unanswered questions in the text. "Who told you that you were naked?" (who indeed) I think the maintenance guy was sent from a sinister crime organization to do the company in for good. Seems he succeeded. But wait...

I think you know the rest of the story. Demotions, consequences, firings, unpaid relocations, what a mess.

Very funny analogy. I laughed out loud, literally.

I heard a theory I would have to look into, that before sin they were glorified with garments of light. That is why when they sinned, the light vanished and they could see they were naked. They went from immortal to mortal.

 

[Saint Steven]

I believe that "stone carvings" is only mentioned one time in scripture in 2 Corinthians. And it says nothing about 'that law' being the law that started death. But it was the law which increased trespasses. Which with INCREASED tresspasses/temptations, which ended up leading to increased SIN.

ROM 5:20 Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

"The law of sin and death" preexisted the "law of Moses", that's simply bible, as the above verse proves IMO.

He meant, "engraved in letters on stone" = the Ten Commandments.

 

[Saint Steven]

Very funny analogy. I laughed out loud, literally.

I heard a theory I would have to look into, that before sin they were glorified with garments of light. That is why when they sinned, the light vanished and they could see they were naked. They went from immortal to mortal.

I think that is from the writings of Ellen G. White. Standard SDA doctrine.
However, at the end of Genesis chapter two we find this.

Genesis 2:25
Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I think that is from the writings of Ellen G. White. Standard SDA doctrine.
However, at the end of Genesis chapter two we find this.

Genesis 2:25
Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

The person I heard say it was not SDA. But that doesn't mean SDA is not where they heard it. I just don't know.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I think that is from the writings of Ellen G. White. Standard SDA doctrine.
However, at the end of Genesis chapter two we find this.

Genesis 2:25
Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Just so you know, I was raised SDA and never heard this.

(Left SDA when I was 23 when Ray Walker, base singer of the Jordanaires, and I stayed up debating the law until 4:00 am at his home in Nashville. Suddenly, it was like a light bulb went on; I got it! Grace! He was best man at my wedding. You see, I wouldn't marry my fiance, a Nashville recording artist, until we were the same denomination. Ray was a friend of my fiance and was frustrated that he couldn't debate this with me, so called his friend at about 11 pm.)

 

[Saint Steven]

Just so you know, I was raised SDA and never heard this.

(Left SDA when I was 23 when Ray Walker, base singer of the Jordanaires, and I stayed up debating the law until 4:00 am at his home in Nashville. Suddenly, it was like a light bulb went on; I got it! Grace! He was best man at my wedding. You see, I wouldn't marry my fiance, a Nashville recording artist, until we were the same denomination. Ray was a friend of my fiance and was frustrated that he couldn't debate this with me, so called his friend at about 11 pm.)

Here's a quote from the SDA that I was thinking of. Bold emphasis mine.
What would be "authority" other than the Bible for a SDA?

"Good Morning. Today is the preparation, the sabbath is drawing on.
Xxxx, Please rethink your remarks and place yourself in the garden.......everybody naked?????? I don't' think so.
No Sir! Xxxx you are spouting what the artists over the years have depicted. Artists of all walks of religion.
Nakedness was not in the garden until sin......we have it on authority that they were clothed with robes of light.
You do not access the spirit of prophecy which is granted to the "remnant"....Rev 12:17, 19:10
You do not even go to propriety in your thinking. or modesty......or behaviour or deportment that is holy.
Please rethink your remarks and place yourself in the garden.......everybody naked?????? I don't' think so."

 

[1stcenturylady]

Here's a quote from the SDA that I was thinking of. Bold emphasis mine.
What would be "authority" other than the Bible for a SDA?

"Good Morning. Today is the preparation, the sabbath is drawing on.
Xxxx, Please rethink your remarks and place yourself in the garden.......everybody naked?????? I don't' think so.
No Sir! Xxxx you are spouting what the artists over the years have depicted. Artists of all walks of religion.
Nakedness was not in the garden until sin......we have it on authority that they were clothed with robes of light.
You do not access the spirit of prophecy which is granted to the "remnant"....Rev 12:17, 19:10
You do not even go to propriety in your thinking. or modesty......or behaviour or deportment that is holy.
Please rethink your remarks and place yourself in the garden.......everybody naked?????? I don't' think so."

Interesting. I never heard this from them.

 

[Saint Steven]

Interesting. I never heard this from them.

I'm not 100 percent sure where he got that from. But he is SDA and said he had it on authority.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I'm not 100 percent sure where he got that from. But he is SDA and said he had it on authority.

Wouldn't it be interesting if they both got it from the same Spirit?

 

[Saint Steven]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they both got it from the same Spirit?

Hmm... Spirit with a capital "S" ????

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hmm... Spirit with a capital "S" ????

Exactly!