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Which Commandments were engraved in letters on stone?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    The answer is obvious. (see scripture below)

    Here's what the Apostle Paul says about them.
    How could anyone defend the law after reading what he has to say?
    Commentary and summary below that.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-11
    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
    not of the letter but of the Spirit;
    for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    7 Now if the ministry that brought death,
    which was engraved in letters on stone,
    came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at
    the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
    8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
    9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
    how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
    10 For what was glorious has no glory now
    in comparison with the surpassing glory.
    11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
    how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The Apostle is comparing two ministries:
    - The new covenant
    - The ministry that brought death (engraved in letters on stone) The TCs.

    What does he say about each?

    The new covenant: See bold highlight.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-11
    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant
    not of the letter but of the Spirit;
    for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    7 Now if the ministry that brought death,
    which was engraved in letters on stone,
    came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at
    the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
    8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
    9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,

    how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
    10 For what was glorious has no glory now
    in comparison with the surpassing glory.
    11 And if what was transitory came with glory,

    how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The ministry that brought death (engraved in letters on stone) The TCs
    See bold highlight.


    2 Corinthians 3:6-11
    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
    not of the letter but of the Spirit;
    for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    7 Now if the ministry that brought death,
    which was engraved in letters on stone,
    came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at
    the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
    8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
    9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
    how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
    10 For what was glorious has no glory now
    in comparison with the surpassing glory.
    11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
    how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Summary:

    The Ten Commandments, which were engraved in letters on stone, is what the Apostle is calling the ministry that brought death. Because the letter of the law kills, it can only bring condemnation. Though the law came with glory, it has no glory now. It was transitory, giving way to the new covenant.

    Therefore, we are ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. Because the Spirit gives life. Though the ministry that brought death was glorious, it has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory of that which lasts!
     
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  2. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    The purpose of the law was never intended as a means of justification, but rather a means of conviction of sin to drive people to seek the grace available in the gospel.

    Rom 7
    7 Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
    8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.
    9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
    10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
    11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
    12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
    13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


    Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

    Gal 3
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
    22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
    24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor
     
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  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I'll have to agree.

    Also interesting that the Apostle says: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant..." - 2 Cor.3:6

    He seems to be questioning the competence of those who would promote the law.
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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  6. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Paul notes there were people back then, as there also are today, even in these forums, who are "wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions." 1Tim 1:7
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Yes.
    And that reminds me of the passage about Hagar and Sarah in Galatians chapter four.
    Which begins, "Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?" - Gal. 4:21 -- And then goes on to say, in reference to "now" (still today):

    Gal. 4:29
    At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And earlier in the chapter:

    Gal. 4:17
    Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them.
     
  8. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Yes, the Ten Commandments were based on the Eternal Law of God but is not exactly the same as they bring death, as they must be kept to the letter with our flesh. It is the Old Covenant.

    The Eternal Law of God, also called The Royal Law" is "Love God with all your heart, strength and spirit, and love your neighbor as yourself."

    The commandments of the New Covenant are more closely related to the Eternal Law of God and bring life. 1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. These commandments are of the Spirit.
     
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  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I agree. Does this scripture fit with what you are saying?

    Romans 2:13-15
    For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight,
    but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
    14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
    do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
    even though they do not have the law.
    15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
    their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes
    accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
     
  10. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    This verse in Romans 2 is about a person without the law or Christ. They have neither, only their own conscience. Romans 12 shows the gifts of God to mankind. They are not just to Christians, but to anyone who bears these gifts, even in the world. They received them from God, not on their own. One of them is called "a measure of faith." In the end, God will judge them by their works.
     
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    But what law is written on their hearts in Romans 2:13-15 ???
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  12. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    The eternal law of God, but only partially. They only come fully by the Spirit. Then our small measure of faith conscience, becomes super-sensitive.
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    That scripture does fit with what you are saying then.
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, everyone knows the difference between right and wrong, even without the Holy Spirit. The Gentile in question did what was right in his own eyes. God will judge his works. What that fully means for them eternally, is what I don't know. But what I believe is that because Jesus is God, and IS the Creator, they worship by their works and conscience, the Creator, even though they can't put a name to Him.

    Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,"

    That verse goes both ways, I think. Not to just the ungodly, but the follower of their own conscience, placed there by God, I believe.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I was thinking about this earlier today.
    God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good And Evil.
    They broke a very specific command. And all of humankind Fell from grace because of it. And spiritual death was the result. I remember this when I am at work with a sweaty brow trying to earn my daily bread. (by the sweat of your brow) Yet that is where we get our conscience to know good from bad. ???
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  16. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    This is the way I see it.

    In the garden, all they knew was love and being entirely good. The good that they did - obeying God and loving each other and the animals - they did naturally. No struggle.

    Eve didn't want to sin. She wasn't out looking for it. She was talked into it by the serpent. She didn't know any better, as she had never been lied to before. Her sin was a trespass, an unintentional sin. Adam on the other hand, committed a willful sin. This is why she wasn't naked until after Adam willfully sinned. Adam's was rebellion against God, and he knew what he was doing. He condemned them both, and they both became naked.

    After willful sin and eating of the tree, they had to force themselves to do good, or choose to do evil. They had to make choices all the time. Always a struggle. They weren't entirely bad, or entirely good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I dunno. I thinks if you gits tossed outta the garden you iz bad. lol
     
  18. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    They couldn't stay after they sinned because the Tree of Life was also in the garden. Eating of it would have condemned them to a life forever of staying carnal. This is another thing Jesus accomplished - the killing of the carnal nature, which is being born again, and filling you with the power of the Spirit to again do righteousness naturally. No struggle. Romans 8:1-9
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    It gives me hope to live in this broken world. Just to know that there is so much more than this. I can smile while everything around me is crumbling to dust.
     
  20. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Even though there is sin all around us and it keeps getting darker and darker with all the evil agendas propagated out of Hollywood, which influences fake news; grace abounds all the more. It seems the supernatural signs and wonders of God are growing and abounding.
     
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