Which Church is THE Church?

Thursday

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Not to me it doesn't, to be quite honest.
When Jesus was on earth he could not physically be in 2 places at once

Why not?

Could he multiply a few fish and loaves into dozens? Could he walk on water? Could he pass through doors?

You're going to tell us what Jesus can't do?
 
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rturner76

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Of course you do. And Mormons insist that it's theirs. Jehovah's Witnesses insist that it's theirs. Baptists insist that it's theirs. And the Eastern Orthodox have, by any measurement, a much stronger claim on being the original church than the Roman Catholic Church, which didn't even know what a Pope was all about until several hundred years after Christ.
Here is a list of the first twelve Popes:

  1. St. Peter (32-67)
  2. St. Linus (67-76)
  3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
  4. St. Clement I (88-97)
  5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
  6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
  7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
  8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
  9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
  10. St. Pius I (140-155)
  11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
  12. St. Soter (166-175)
 
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Albion

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Here is a list of the first twelve Popes:
That is a list of the first twelve bishops of Rome. You may call them "Popes," but none of them understood themselves to be such, nor did the church in their time.
 
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Thursday

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That is a list of the first twelve bishops of Rome. You may call them "Popes," but none of them understood themselves to be such, nor did the church in their time.


They understood that they were the leaders of the Church. The word pope comes from the Italian for Father but that is irrelevant to the role of the successor of Peter.

We see that in 90 AD the Corinthians consulted Clement to resolve some internal disputes. He answered their request with an authoritative response:

Owing, dear brethren, to the sudden and successive calamitous events which have happened to ourselves, we feel that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the points respecting which you consulted us; ....If, however, any shall disobey the words spoken by Him through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and serious danger;
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm
 
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rturner76

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That is a list of the first twelve bishops of Rome. You may call them "Popes," but none of them understood themselves to be such, nor did the church in their time.
I am not educated enough to be able to speak as to the difference between the two. I know the Pope is still called The Bishop of Rome so I would have to ask an apologist or scholar about the distinction between the two if there is one
 
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Thursday

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I am not educated enough to be able to speak as to the difference between the two. I know the Pope is still called The Bishop of Rome so I would have to ask an apologist or scholar about the distinction between the two if there is one


There is no distinction as Albion knows. He tries to work around the truth.

He knows that pope is just a title added much later.
 
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Albion

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They understood that they were the leaders of the Church.
No, they didn't. Nor did the church itself. In the first century, some bishops and churchmen thought that James was the leader of the church, others John, others Peter and John...or Paul and none had any concept of a leader who was infallible or the superior over the other successors of the Apostles.

We see that in 90 AD the Corinthians consulted Clement to resolve some internal disputes. He answered their request with an authoritative response
Clement is always cited, not the others. ;) But his attempt to "throw his weight around" doesn't make him a Pope as the term is understood by the Roman Catholic Church. And any influence that he was able to assert owes to Rome being the "Eternal City," the capitol of Empire, the city in which both Peter and Paul labored for Christ, and the seat of the largest and wealthiest diocese in the Christian world.
 
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Albion

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I am not educated enough to be able to speak as to the difference between the two.
It's not that hard. The list is a list of the bishops of Rome. The Roman Catholic Church considers them--RETROACTIVELY--to have been Popes, but there was no such position until the late 300s or the early 400s. And no, it's not just that the word was adopted later. The entire concept was unknown before then.
 
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Strong in Him

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Because although Jesus was God, he was also a man - 100% human. Human beings cannot be in more than one place at once - not physically possible. That's why, as I have already said, Mary and Martha both greeted Jesus with the words, "if you had been here my brother would not have died".
WE know that Jesus stayed away so that he could perform the greater miracle of raising Lazarus from the dead; they didn't, not at that time. If Jesus had physically been with them, they believed that he could have healed Lazarus and prevented him from dying. As Jesus hadn't physically been with them, he did not do that miracle for them, and their brother died.
At no time while he was on earth was Jesus in Jerusalem at the same time as being in Capernaum, at the same time as being in Galilee - didn't happen. After the resurrection, with his resurrection body - yes, maybe. But before the crucifixion, no.

Could he multiply a few fish and loaves into dozens?

Actually it was God the Father who performed that miracle - Jesus gave thanks to God and the miracle happened.

Could he walk on water?

Yes. That was a miracle - a one off.

Could he pass through doors?

No, not before the resurrection, with his human body.

You're going to tell us what Jesus can't do?

No, I'm telling you that when he was on earth he was 100% God AND 100% human. The author of Hebrews says that he was like us in every way, except that he didn't sin.
After the resurrection Jesus had a new, resurrection body, which could eat fish and be touched, but could pass through doors and probably be in more than one place at once. He stayed on earth, in this body, for 40 days and then ascended to the Father. The next time he is physically on earth as a human being will be when he returns as king - this is the teaching of Scripture and I see no reason to not believe it.

Of course he is present with us and IN us now, by his Spirit; that's not in question. Because of this, Christians can be in any number of places and countries, teaching and healing in the name of Jesus. Whether we are in school, in hospital, in prison, on the mission field, in the convent, pulpit or study; whether in Europe, America, Asia or even on the moon, Jesus is with us - by his Spirit.

Apart from anything else, logic should tell us that if Jesus was here physically, in person, someone would have seen him.
 
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Thursday

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Except that he didn't.

Hmmm....

Matt 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
 
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Tree of Life

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Hmmm....

Matt 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Jesus is going to build the same church that he has been building since Abraham's time.

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

"The church" refers to the same church that has existed since Abraham's time.

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

"The church" has always been a pillar and foundation of the truth since Abraham's time.
 
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Job8

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It doesn't matter where the Church is located, it matters that it is led by those sent by Jesus.
It does matter. The church at Constantinople refused to acknowledge the pretensions of Popery. So who was sent by Jesus, the Orthodox or the Roman Catholics.
 
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Job8

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Alithis

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I proved you wrong. The Catholic Church was started by Christ. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it is not historically accurate.
The roman catholic church ..which is what your really refering to .didnt come along for about 400 yrs.
And i dont want any thing to do with it ever.
 
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Thursday

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The roman catholic church ..which is what your really refering to .didnt come along for about 400 yrs.
And i dont want any thing to do with it ever.

I was once in your shoes, but I was wrong.

Try reading the writings of the early Christians to see what they believed and how they interpreted scripture.
 
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W2L

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The roman catholic church ..which is what your really refering to .didnt come along for about 400 yrs.
And i dont want any thing to do with it ever.

RC propaganda sucks the loveliness from my soul, and where I once had joy I now have sighing. I will wait on the Lord. The letter kills but the spirit gives life.
 
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