Which church does fundies go to?

Sep 1, 2012
1,012
558
France
✟105,906.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ah the elasticity of language and the wonder of wikipedia.
The present day use (misuse?) of 'fundamentalist' coupled with Christian or Christianity is a prime example of the blurring and smearing of original meaning.
I'm happy to to accept the label 'fundamentalist' as per the original unmorphed meaning. But of course we live in a wonderland world where labels mean what ever you want them to mean.
Over the years the main denomination I've been involved with has been the Baptists but have had time with Anglican, Methodist and AIC Kenya. These days of course denominational labels are no longer any sort of reliable guide to finding a fundamentalist (as per the original meaning) church.
The underlining in the following extracts is mine.
Go well, go wisely
><>


The Fundamentals - Wikipedia
The Fundamentals: A Testimony To The Truth (generally referred to simply as The Fundamentals) is a set of 90 essays published from 1910 to 1915
….....
The 90 essays were written by 64 different authors, representing most of the major Protestant Christian denominations.
The essays were written to affirm conservative Protestant beliefs, especially those of the Reformed tradition, and defend against ideas deemed inimical to them. They are widely considered to be the foundation of modern Christian fundamentalism.
….....
The volumes defended orthodox Protestant beliefs and attacked higher criticism, liberal theology, Roman Catholicism (also called Romanism by them), socialism, Modernism, atheism, Christian Science, Mormonism, Millennial Dawn, Spiritualism, and evolutionism.


Christian fundamentalism - Wikipedia
Christian fundamentalism began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among British and American Protestants[1][2] as a reaction to theological liberalism and cultural modernism. Fundamentalists argued that 19th-century modernist theologians had misinterpreted or rejected certain doctrines, especially biblical inerrancy, that they viewed as the fundamentals of the Christian faith.[3] …...
fundamentalists usually believe in a core of Christian beliefs that include the historical accuracy of the Bible and all its events as well as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.[6]
......
Interpretations of Christian fundamentalism have changed over time.[7] Fundamentalism is a movement manifested in various denominations such as Pentecostalism or Roman Catholicism with various theologies, rather than a single denomination or systematic theology. It became active in the 1910s after the release of The Fundamentals, a twelve-volume set of essays, apologetic and polemic, written by conservative Protestant theologians to defend what they saw as Protestant orthodoxy. The movement became more organized in the 1920s within U.S. Protestant churches, especially Baptist and Presbyterian.
…....
Since 1930, many fundamentalist churches have been represented by the Independent Fundamental Churches of America (renamed IFCA International in 1996), which holds to biblical inerrancy, the virgin birth of Jesus, substitutionary atonement, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the Second Coming of Christ, among other doctrines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joyfullyobey
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Although "Fundamentalism" has been around for just over a hundred years, in 1878, there was a conference called in Niagara NY. It was there, the "creed" for Fundalmentalists was started.

14 point creed of the Niagara Bible Conference of 1878:

1. The verbal, plenary inspiration of the Scriptures in the original manuscripts.
2. The Trinity.
3. The Creation of man, the Fall into sin, and total depravity.
4. The universal transmission of spiritual death from Adam.
5. The necessity of the new birth.
6. Redemption by the blood of Christ.
7. Salvation by faith alone in Christ.
8. The assurance of salvation.
9. The centrality of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures.
10. The constitution of the true church by genuine believers.
11. The personality of the Holy Spirit.
12. The believers call to a holy life.
13. The immediate passing of the souls of believers to be with Christ at death.
14. The premillennial Second Coming of Christ.

Source

Jump ahead some 30 years. The handbook of theology for Fundamentalists was written. "The Fundamentals, A Testimony to the Truth".

Written inside this was the theology for Fundamentalists and it was comprised of both Baptists, and Presbyterians.

Strickly speaking, Fundamentalists are either Baptist or Presbyterian, but since the 1920's, the shift has been towards what they called themselves in the 1970's as "Evangelicals".

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Any church sticking out in particular as the most attended one among fundies?

I gave up on religion a few years ago, after being told at Plymouth Christian Centre (Elim Pentecostal denomination) that Jesus is God the Father by two Alpha group leaders, a church elder who was passing did not want to get involved and I wrote to the pastor (Reverend Lee) twice, but he never replied. I've protested outside this church three times, the last time with a video camera and on a Youtube Channel called: Exposing the Wolves! You can see me asking people coming out of this nominally Trinitarian church, why they teach that Jesus is God the Father? Seven congregants then affirm on camera that Jesus is God the Father, and you can see this on my half hour video! By the way I was also told by an Alpha leader, that Jesus made his atonement in hell (to the devil) and not on the cross, when I challenged this they threatened to throw me out of the building. I was also told things of a sexual nature by a female youth leader of this church, I won't repeat them, but I was truly shocked. So I no longer believe in the utter nonsense taught by this and other similar churches in my part (Devon - South West of the UK).
 
  • Like
Reactions: joyfullyobey
Upvote 0

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Pentecostal was one of the last ones that enter my mind. In the UK the only Pentecostal churches near me are Charismatic/Prosperity Gospel plants.

I live in Plymouth (Devon in the South West of the UK), and I gave up on religion after being told that "Jesus was God the Father," and also that Christ's atonement wasn't completed on the cross (despite him saying it is finished the Greek teleo means paid in full at John 19:30, and spoken by Christ upon the cross), he made an atonement in hell (to satan)! I was told this at Plymouth Christian Centre, who called the Police and tried to get me arrested when I protested about this outside the church on two Sunday mornings. The problem with religion is that nobody will discuss it or any aspect of the Bible! The Bible is an absolute NO in so many fellowships, where the ultimate sin is to question anything or even just to try to discuss with an elder or leader the subject of the sunday sermon. Frankly so many people who call themselves saved (and me unsaved and going to burn in hell forever) are nut jobs! I have never in my life experienced more hatred, control and abuse than that which I have experienced in local churches. But the most frustrating thing is how NOBODY will discuss anything within these buildings called churches, it's as if people leave their brains at the door when they enter on sunday mornings. Several times a year the local paper reports on the latest church sex scandal, yet nobody acts, nobody cleans house (i.e. repents) all that these Christians do is bleat .... "don't judge us" and then they stick their heads in the ground. By the way I do debates with religious people, if you go to my Youtube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, I have many debates, where I and my opponent speak for 10 minutes alternately on an agreed topic, going back and forth. I am looking to debate a pro-tither on tithing, let me know if anyone is interested in debating me.
 
Upvote 0

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Strange though
Fundies are mostly seen in Pentecostal type churches, yet when it comes to the salvational message followed, the denomination closest to them in thinking is Catholics
Yet, these are the two mainstream denominations that are supposed to be furthest apart doctrinally. If only they knew!


There are now many tie ups between Pentecostals and Roman Catholics, which includes common worship and prayer. For instance, recently, Kenneth Copeland met with the Pope for three hours and on his return to the US, he and a room full of ministers posted a message to the Pope. Benny Hinn has met and fellowshipped with the Pope on several occasions. This is hardly surprising, as many pentecostal leaders such as Rick Joyner are knights of malta, and Jesuit influence is great throughout protestantism, but particularly amongst Pentecostals and Charismatics as these people are simply so gullible and undiscerning. By the way I do debates with religious people, if you go to my Youtube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, I have many debates, where I and my opponent speak for 10 minutes alternately on an agreed topic, going back and forth. I am looking to debate a pro-tither on tithing, let me know if anyone is interested in debating me.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,603
65
✟70,875.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I gave up on religion a few years ago, after being told at Plymouth Christian Centre (Elim Pentecostal denomination) that Jesus is God the Father by two Alpha group leaders, a church elder who was passing did not want to get involved and I wrote to the pastor (Reverend Lee) twice, but he never replied. I've protested outside this church three times, the last time with a video camera and on a Youtube Channel called: Exposing the Wolves! You can see me asking people coming out of this nominally Trinitarian church, why they teach that Jesus is God the Father? Seven congregants then affirm on camera that Jesus is God the Father, and you can see this on my half hour video! By the way I was also told by an Alpha leader, that Jesus made his atonement in hell (to the devil) and not on the cross, when I challenged this they threatened to throw me out of the building. I was also told things of a sexual nature by a female youth leader of this church, I won't repeat them, but I was truly shocked. So I no longer believe in the utter nonsense taught by this and other similar churches in my part (Devon - South West of the UK).
I was raised in AOG( Assembles of God) Pentecostal church. Eventually the church broke Away from AOG but kept to much of its beliefs.
One day I went to a service to please my mother( I had long since left the church) one of the workers prayed from the pulpit, thanking God the Father for dying for our sins at Calvary. I was surprised to hear that stated!

On the much wider point. In my two decades of going to AOG churches I had never previous to the above mentioned ever heard it stated Christ was God himself, let alone you must believe this to inherit eternal life. In over fifty years of going to various Trinitarian churches, only once have I heard a minister state from the pulpit Christ is God himself, and all Christians must accept this. That church was Elim and the assistant minister who preached was just out of bible college.

There is a huge difference between what is stated on the internet, and what is actually preached from the pulpit, in my experience
 
Upvote 0

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Trust me.
Fundies and Catholics are the closest of allies in how they strive to attain heaven

Well said, and a thumbs up as well for your insightful and intelligent comment. Both Fundies and Roman Catholics confuse sanctification with justification and thereby add human works to grace. Catholics are honest and open about this, i.e. the seven sacraments it is claimed are ways in which the grace of God is mediated through their religious system to the faithful. Fundies and Penties are less honest, as they'll often claim that salvation (justification) is by grace though faith alone, that Christians aren't under the law, but then they'll add tithing to the gospel and claim that God's blessings of heaven (Malachi 3:11-12 which is actually rain), will be barred from the non-tithers. In all honesty, I'm done with the abuse, the hatred, the viciousness and the downright Biblical illiteracy of the Fundies and Penties! I'm a humanist, but if I ever went back to church, I'd go to a Catholic church, as they seem to be more honest and open about their beliefs than the complete lunatics I've met locally (Devon in the UK) in Penty and Fundy churches. By the way I do debates with religious people, if you go to my Youtube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, I have many debates, where I and my opponent speak for 10 minutes alternately on an agreed topic, going back and forth. I am looking to debate a pro-tither on tithing, let me know if anyone is interested in debating me.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,603
65
✟70,875.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There are now many tie ups between Pentecostals and Roman Catholics, which includes common worship and prayer. For instance, recently, Kenneth Copeland met with the Pope for three hours and on his return to the US, he and a room full of ministers posted a message to the Pope. Benny Hinn has met and fellowshipped with the Pope on several occasions. This is hardly surprising, as many pentecostal leaders such as Rick Joyner are knights of malta, and Jesuit influence is great throughout protestantism, but particularly amongst Pentecostals and Charismatics as these people are simply so gullible and undiscerning. By the way I do debates with religious people, if you go to my Youtube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, I have many debates, where I and my opponent speak for 10 minutes alternately on an agreed topic, going back and forth. I am looking to debate a pro-tither on tithing, let me know if anyone is interested in debating me.
I have always considered myself fundamentalist, due to being raised I a pentecostal church, though I dont go to these churches anymore.
I was chatting to a catholic one day. He wad telling me how he strove to live a sinless life, but often failed. When he did he sought to be cleansed of his sin, then set forth again striving to live a sinless life.
I was stunned, what he described was exactly how i had pursued my walk with God in a fundamentalist church.
It is hard to describe how at one i felt with the man as I looked back to when I was younger
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,603
65
✟70,875.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well said, and a thumbs up as well for your insightful and intelligent comment. Both Fundies and Roman Catholics confuse sanctification with justification and thereby add human works to grace. Catholics are honest and open about this, i.e. the seven sacraments it is claimed are ways in which the grace of God is mediated through their religious system to the faithful. Fundies and Penties are less honest, as they'll often claim that salvation (justification) is by grace though faith alone, that Christians aren't under the law, but then they'll add tithing to the gospel and claim that God's blessings of heaven (Malachi 3:11-12 which is actually rain), will be barred from the non-tithers. In all honesty, I'm done with the abuse, the hatred, the viciousness and the downright Biblical illiteracy of the Fundies and Penties! I'm a humanist, but if I ever went back to church, I'd go to a Catholic church, as they seem to be more honest and open about their beliefs than the complete lunatics I've met locally (Devon in the UK) in Penty and Fundy churches. By the way I do debates with religious people, if you go to my Youtube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, I have many debates, where I and my opponent speak for 10 minutes alternately on an agreed topic, going back and forth. I am looking to debate a pro-tither on tithing, let me know if anyone is interested in debating me.
That's a great post, and so very true. Catholics and fundies do indeed confuse sanctification and justification. But fundamentalists, as you say preach you are saved by grace through faith alone, but in practice appear to believe Thi is solely at the point of conversion. Your continued salvation hinges on observing the law
At the age of ten, I moved with my family to a pentecostal church. All of a sudden I was convicted I must take God very seriously. I responded to an altar call, and a nightmare followed. Basically, I tried to attain heaven by being good enough for God under the law. I ended up in the same state Saul the Pharisee did when he tried the same( rom7:7-11KJV)

It was remarkable. I had gone to a christian church and tried to attain heaven as Saul the Pharisee had tried to attain it, and ended up in the same mess he did.
It is a pleasure to meet someone on the internet who has much insight into all of this. It is something I very rarely( if at all) find.

God bless
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
There is a huge difference between what is stated on the internet, and what is actually preached from the pulpit, in my experience


Agreed, many local Churches here in Devon in the UK (the south west) have fairly good doctrinal statements of faith, some of which are found online on their websites. However, in practice, due to complete Biblical illiteracy, what is taught in these churches, often by home group leaders and other second string leaders such as the pastor's wife or his son whom he's grooming for leadership (nepotism) is often totally at variance with the official church doctrinal statement of faith of his own church. Most pastors will defend their families no matter what, so when as I have heard, the pastor's gullible and lazy son preach something heretical, or the pastor's wife at a woman's group, the pastor will defend them to the death, no matter what they have said, irrespective of how heretical, and hen the biblically illiterate sheep will simply turn on you if you dare to question leadership. Most Pastor's deliberately keep the sheep ignorant, as this makes them dependent upon them and keeps them coming back for more, and of course paying the tithe to support the pastor's lifestyle. If most people actually matured and grew in their Christian walk, then pastors would find it impossible to control them, and extract tithes from them, which is why they often prefer to keep people dumb, and then keep them coming back for more, year after year, and yet never growing and becoming mature effective Christians. Honestly, what I've seen here in the South-West, the anti-Trinitarianism within churches which ascribe to the trinity, the endless and countless sex scandals some of which end up getting reported in the local press, oh and the mixing of covenants, so that it will be claimed that Christians are not under law, they are new covenant Christians .... until it's tithing time and then the pastor quote from the law and puts people under a guilt trip. Oh boy, religion is a complete joke! It really is a bondage to man ... in fact many pastors local to me are little Pope, ruling like the medieval papacy over their own little church building and their gullible sheep who leave their brains at the door.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
I have always considered myself fundamentalist, due to being raised I a pentecostal church, though I dont go to these churches anymore.
I was chatting to a catholic one day. He wad telling me how he strove to live a sinless life, but often failed. When he did he sought to be cleansed of his sin, then set forth again striving to live a sinless life.
I was stunned, what he described was exactly how i had pursued my walk with God in a fundamentalist church.
It is hard to describe how at one i felt with the man as I looked back to when I was younger


Yes, a good point Stuart. People often confuse sanctification with justification, the Roman Catholic catechism does this, but in Protestantism there used to be a clear division between the two. Sadly, that's not the case today and so many local pastors here in Devon in the UK, confuse justification with sanctification and are as Biblically illiterate as their deceived sheeple.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,603
65
✟70,875.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes, a good point Stuart. People often confuse sanctification with justification, the Roman Catholic catechism does this, but in Protestantism there used to be a clear division between the two. Sadly, that's not the case today and so many local pastors here in Devon in the UK, confuse justification with sanctification and are as Biblically illiterate as their deceived sheeple.
I heard a sermon by a well known Baptist minister. I think he preached at the same church Spurgeon preached at. He said 85% of Evangelicals do not understand the justification / sanctification process.
Based on my experiences in such churches I would say his statement is accurate
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,603
65
✟70,875.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Agreed, many local Churches here in Devon in the UK (the south west) have fairly good doctrinal statements of faith, some of which are found online on their websites. However, in practice, due to complete Biblical illiteracy, what is taught in these churches, often by home group leaders and other second string leaders such as the pastor's wife or his son whom he's grooming for leadership (nepotism) is often totally at variance with the official church doctrinal statement of faith of his own church. Most pastors will defend their families no matter what, so when as I have heard, the pastor's gullible and lazy son preach something heretical, or the pastor's wife at a woman's group, the pastor will defend them to the death, no matter what they have said, irrespective of how heretical, and hen the biblically illiterate sheep will simply turn on you if you dare to question leadership. Most Pastor's deliberately keep the sheep ignorant, as this makes them dependent upon them and keeps them coming back for more, and of course paying the tithe to support the pastor's lifestyle. If most people actually matured and grew in their Christian walk, then pastors would find it impossible to control them, and extract tithes from them, which is why they often prefer to keep people dumb, and then keep them coming back for more, year after year, and yet never growing and becoming mature effective Christians. Honestly, what I've seen here in the South-West, the anti-Trinitarianism within churches which ascribe to the trinity, the endless and countless sex scandals some of which end up getting reported in the local press, oh and the mixing of covenants, so that it will be claimed that Christians are not under law, they are new covenant Christians .... until it's tithing time and then the pastor quote from the law and puts people under a guilt trip. Oh boy, religion is a complete joke! It really is a bondage to man ... in fact many pastors local to me are little Pope, ruling like the medieval papacy over their own little church building and their gullible sheep who leave their brains at the door.
You well understand the problems in the churches you have described.
I find it strange. I should feel at home in evangelical/ fundamentalist churches for i fully believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today. But on the gospel message of justification i am far more at one with Baptists, therefore tend to go to their churches.
Have you read:
All of Grace by Spurgeon?

I would thoroughly recommend it
 
Upvote 0

High Fidelity

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 9, 2014
24,258
10,276
✟897,101.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Private
I live in Plymouth (Devon in the South West of the UK), and I gave up on religion after being told that "Jesus was God the Father," and also that Christ's atonement wasn't completed on the cross (despite him saying it is finished the Greek teleo means paid in full at John 19:30, and spoken by Christ upon the cross), he made an atonement in hell (to satan)! I was told this at Plymouth Christian Centre, who called the Police and tried to get me arrested when I protested about this outside the church on two Sunday mornings. The problem with religion is that nobody will discuss it or any aspect of the Bible! The Bible is an absolute NO in so many fellowships, where the ultimate sin is to question anything or even just to try to discuss with an elder or leader the subject of the sunday sermon. Frankly so many people who call themselves saved (and me unsaved and going to burn in hell forever) are nut jobs! I have never in my life experienced more hatred, control and abuse than that which I have experienced in local churches. But the most frustrating thing is how NOBODY will discuss anything within these buildings called churches, it's as if people leave their brains at the door when they enter on sunday mornings. Several times a year the local paper reports on the latest church sex scandal, yet nobody acts, nobody cleans house (i.e. repents) all that these Christians do is bleat .... "don't judge us" and then they stick their heads in the ground. By the way I do debates with religious people, if you go to my Youtube channel: Christian Comedy Channel, I have many debates, where I and my opponent speak for 10 minutes alternately on an agreed topic, going back and forth. I am looking to debate a pro-tither on tithing, let me know if anyone is interested in debating me.

It doesn't surprise me, honestly. Faith in the UK is severely superficial and on its way out for reasons like this.

I'm sorry you had that experience. Funnily enough it was the same reason that made me reluctant of attending the local church(Church of England) because I worried it was too liberal and people would be turning up for something to be done, to save face and just avoid the difficult questions in Bible studies. Surprisingly, pleasingly, this was not the case. They welcomed the discussion of difficult subjects and in many cases we'd get sidetracked from the main study itself by spending the couple hours discussing a specific thing that was a more difficult point.

There are churches out there that have a genuine thirst for God, Scripture and knowledge and typically those groups of people have a humbleness and openness that's inclusive and welcoming of questions because whether something is seemingly 'silly' or serious, if it's something someone needs to ask, it's worth answering even if it's only to the benefit of that one person.

My personal opinion and observation of Pentecostal churches in England nowadays is that they're mostly Charismatic plants that place far more emphasis on music and having a good time than they do speaking or studying Scripture. There's a 'megachurch' near me, one of the only ones in the country, and there website is a collage of musical backgrounds, a tiny statement on beliefs, nothing about their Pastors and they baptise people mid-concert. I just can't help but shake my head at that point.
 
Upvote 0

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
That's a great post, and so very true. Catholics and fundies do indeed confuse sanctification and justification. But fundamentalists, as you say preach you are saved by grace through faith alone, but in practice appear to believe Thi is solely at the point of conversion. Your continued salvation hinges on observing the law
At the age of ten, I moved with my family to a pentecostal church. All of a sudden I was convicted I must take God very seriously. I responded to an altar call, and a nightmare followed. Basically, I tried to attain heaven by being good enough for God under the law. I ended up in the same state Saul the Pharisee did when he tried the same( rom7:7-11KJV)

It was remarkable. I had gone to a christian church and tried to attain heaven as Saul the Pharisee had tried to attain it, and ended up in the same mess he did.
It is a pleasure to meet someone on the internet who has much insight into all of this. It is something I very rarely( if at all) find.

God bless

A thumbs up for this excellent post. Thanks Stuart.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,603
65
✟70,875.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thank you Stuart. The biggest mistake which I have made in my life is to take things too seriously, and not to realise how other people in my purview, simply don't care about you, God, or others at all. Religion is very similar to relationships: nobody cares about you in most cases! You often hear horror stories about the way in which young people, starting out in relationships treat the other partner abysmally, but simply don't care about the hurt caused! The first girl I kissed was a Jehovah's Witness girl about two years older than me, she'd had 37 previous boyfriends before me whom she'd kissed, including at least one one the go when she was with me, and she treated me with unbelievable cruelty and unconcern, even though I was exceptionally innocent, and she knew from the start that I'd never kissed anyone else. Sadly, religion is often just like a relationship, churches and pastors use you, they like to keep you dumb and gullible, so that you're too biblically illiterate to ever possess the knowledge to challenge the pastor who is living off the tithe money. My biggest mistake in life was to be so innocent and sincere as to assume that other people thought and acted just like me, but mostly they don't, and life is a dog eat dog situation, where the ruthless win and the weak go to the wall. So being innocent and trusting isn't wise, unless in religion and relationships, your first and only experience is with the perfect partner / pastor / religion. So Religion is really just like my first girlfriend, it does not give a damn about you, it is using you and keeping you dumb (she had another boyfriend on the go whilst she was telling me that she loved me)! The lesson I learn't was don't take religion, politics or relationships seriously in most cases, as few people, religions, pastors or politicians are worth bothering about. It is an extremely rare thing to find a partner, person, pastor, politician or religion which is worth bothering about, in most cases my advice is DON'T TAKE IT OR HIM OR HER SERIOUSLY. If you do find a decent and honourable person, be it a partner or a religious leader, then value that relationship, as today its extremely rare, and don't take the average person, pastor etc seriously, as most don't care about you in the slightest. Most of my online activity is on two Youtube channels: Christian Comedy Channel, which is mine and has 7 million hits, and also a friends channel: Exposing the Wolves! I am a former Oneness Pentecostal, and I have playists on this heresy as well as tithing (which I am against). I do online debates on video, i.e. we agree a topic and then post alternate 10 minute videos, at the conclusion, all videos are then edited into a single video. I am looking to debate a pro-tither, as well as anyone will to debate me on my claim that in Acts 2 (Day of pentecost) only 12 men (not 120 or 3,000 converts) spoke in tongues. I've just spent a month in prison, it's a long story, which will utterly shock you as an American, as in the UK the 1997 Harassment Act prevents freedom of speech, even to expose sin and yes even pedophiles being given access to kids in churches. I cannot discuss this, due to a lifetime restraining order, however, I have asked for an appeal and if I win, you can expect my case to make the national and christian press and to bring utter disgrace upon many churches.
Have responded to the above by PM.
BTW

I'm English, live on the edge of the west midlands
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
By the way I was also told by an Alpha leader, that Jesus made his atonement in hell (to the devil) and not on the cross,

By the way, do your own investigation, but...you will see that what I have bolded and underlined, is the theology of modern day "Word of Faith" preachers.

Search the bolded words, and you will quickly see this is the theology of:
  1. Kenneth Copeland
  2. Joyce Mayer
  3. Benny Hinn
But by far, the leading exponent of this "bad theology" is Kenneth Copeland.

“How did Jesus then on the cross say, ‘My God.’ Because God was not His Father any more. He took upon Himself the nature of Satan.

Kenneth Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory, TBN, April 21, 1991)

“He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, ‘The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can’t just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.’ Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!”


Benny Hinn (Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) 1 December 1990)

“The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He cried, ‘My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?’ You don’t know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, ‘Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there — the sign of Satan? Why didn’t you put a lamb on that pole?’ And the Lord said, ‘Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.’ He said, ‘I accepted, in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.”


Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

“How did Jesus then on the cross say, ‘My God.’ Because God was not His Father any more. He took upon Himself the nature of Satan. And I’m telling you Jesus is in the middle of that pit. He’s suffering all that there is to suffer, there is no suffering left . . . apart from Him. His emaciated, little wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing and the devil thinks He’s got Him destroyed. But, all of a sudden God started talking.”


Kenneth Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory, TBN, April 21, 1991)

“In hell He [Jesus] suffered for you and for me. The Bible says hell was made for Satan and his angels. It was not made for men. Satan was holding the Son of God there illegally … The trap was set for Satan and Jesus was the bait.”


Kenneth Copeland (Walking in the Realm of the Miraculous, 1979, p. 77)

“Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only. When He said ‘It is finished’ on that cross, He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun; there were still three days and three nights to be gone through.”


Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

“He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell.”


Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

“And you’ve got to really glean some things out of the Word of God to really get hold of what He [Jesus] did for you during those three days. Jesus said, ‘It is finished.’ And He meant the Old Covenant. The job He had to do was just getting started. He really did the job the three days and nights that He was in hell. That’s where the job was done.”


Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

Funny, E. W. Kenyon taught Kenneth Hagin. Who did Kenneth Hagin teach? Kenneth Copeland!

But wait, there's more!

Kenneth Copeland declares that "God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself…He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even."

(Kenneth Copeland, Following the Faith of Abraham I (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989), tape #01-3001, side 1.

Kenneth Copeland proclaims, "You don’t have a god in you, you are one," and Benny Hinn pronounces, "I am a ‘little messiah’ walking on earth,"

(Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1987), audiotape #02-0028, side 1.) and (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-Thon program on TBN (November 6, 1990).

We can only conclude that they are teaching rank heresy.

Kenneth Copeland said, "I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is…The biggest one in the whole Bible is God…Now, the reason you don’t think of God as a failure is He never said He’s a failure. And you’re not a failure till you say you’re one." (Kenneth Copeland, Praise-a-Thon program on TBN (April 1988). He also said, "Adam committed high treason; and at that point, all the dominion and authority God had given to him was handed over to Satan. Suddenly, God was on the outside looking in…After Adam’s fall, God found Himself in a peculiar position…God needed an avenue back into the earth…God laid out His proposition and Abram accepted it. It gave God access to the earth and gave man access to God..Technically, if God ever broke the Covenant, He would have to destroy Himself."

(Kenneth Copeland, Our Covenant with God (Fort Worth, TX: KCP Publications, 1987), 8-11 passim.

Consider this statement by Kenneth Copeland: "[Adam] was the copy, looked just like [God]. If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike. If you stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and sound exactly alike."

(Kenneth Copeland, Authority of the Believer IV (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1987), audiotape #01-0304, side 1.

Copeland asserts, "What [why] does God have to pay the price for this thing? He has to have a man that is like that first one. It’s got to be a man. He’s got to be all man. He cannot be a God and come storming in here will attributes and dignities that are not common to man. He can’t do that. It’s not legal."

(Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape #02-0017.

Benny Hinn writes, "And let me add this: Had the Holy Spirit not been with Jesus, He would have sinned. That’s right, it was the Holy Spirit that was the power that kept Him pure. He was not only sent from heaven, but He was called the Son of Man—and as such He was capable of sinning…Without the Holy Ghost, Jesus would have never have made it…Can you imagine Christ headed for the grave, knowing He would remain there forever, if the Holy Ghost would change His mind about raising Him from the dead?"

(Benny Hinn, Good Morning, Holy Spirit (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1990), 135-36.

Copeland promises, "Here’s where we’re gonna depart from ordinary church: Now, you see, God is injecting His Word into the earth to produce this Jesus—these faith-filled words that framed the image that’s in Him…He can’t just walk onto the earth and say, "Let it be!" because He doesn’t have the right. He had to sneak it in here around the god of this world that was blockin’ every way that he possibly could."

(Kenneth Copeland, The Image of God in You III (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989), audiotape #01-1403, side 2.

He continues by adding, "God was making promises to Jesus, and Jesus wasn’t even there. But, you see, God deals with things that are not yet as though they already were. That’s the way He gets them to come to pass."

(Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne (Fort Worth, TX: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1990), audiotape #02-0017.

I could go on and on, but this is sufficient.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Where are all the true Fundies? This is a Fundie forum after all. You are all anti fundamentalist!

They are still around, though few in numbers.

You weren't here, and neither were you robert skinner during the years darn near open war was declared on Fundamentalists a few years back.

Genuine "olde tyme Fundamentalists" like myself, are indeed rare. And when I say "olde tyme Fundamentalist", please look up the 1878 Niagara Creed to see what we believe.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging
Jun 29, 2016
324
56
Plymouth, UK
✟24,208.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
They are still around, though few in numbers.

You weren't here, and neither were you robert skinner during the years darn near open war was declared on Fundamentalists a few years back.

Genuine "olde tyme Fundamentalists" like myself, are indeed rare. And when I say "olde tyme Fundamentalist", please look up the 1878 Niagara Creed to see what we believe.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I am interested. Do you tithe? If so will you debate me on tithing (which I am critical of).
 
Upvote 0