Which Bible Version is closest to the original Hebrew and Greek Texts?

[Riberra]

In the quote below from your source above, Bullinger agrees with me.
He says "testament" comes from the Latin Vulgate.

He says the word in Matthew 26:28 comes from Jeremiah 31:31 which uses the word "covenant".

The Greek word is normally translated as "covenant".

testament. Greek. diatheke. This is the first occurrence in the N.T. It is an O.T. word, and must always conform to O.T. usage and translation. It has nothing whatever to do with the later Greek usage.The rendering "testament" comes from the Vulgate "testamentum"




.... your claim is that
The KJV also translates it as "covenant" in Hebrews 12:24, but not in other places.

The demonstration is done that the KJV use -new covenant- in other place.

Reformed Covenant Theology was popular at the time the KJV was first produced. Those who hold to that system claim that the New Covenant is merely a "New Administration" of the Old Covenant. They also claim the Old Covenant was given to Adam in the Garden before the fall.

Their problem is that Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 5:2-3 show that these claims are not based on scripture.

NEW. Greek. kainos. New as to quality and character; not fresh made. Compare Matthew 27:60. Mark 1:27.

 

[ewq1938]

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

G1242
d?a??´??
diathe¯ke¯
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

G1242
d?a??´??
diathe¯ke¯
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Same exact word and meaning. A Testament is exactly the same as a Covenant.

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


1. Heb 9:15 Jesus "is the mediator of the new testament"
2. Heb 12:24 "Jesus the mediator of the new covenant"

 

[BABerean2]

.... your claim is that
The KJV also translates it as "covenant" in Hebrews 12:24, but not in other places.

What I mean or meant to claim is that the KJV translates it as "testament" in places where it should be "covenant", just as Bullinger says it should be.

When most English speakers hear the word "testament" they think of a "Last Will and Testament" or a "statement of truth", like that given in a court of law.

Why is it important?

Because of the battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant that has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

During most of the history of the Church the Judaisers have won...


................................................
KJV

Jer_31:31　 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:8　 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:13　 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_12:24　 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

............................................

NKJV

Jer_31:31　 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28　 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24　 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20　 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25　 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[Steve Petersen]

He we are focusing on the micro by parsing words without regard to the cultural context of the words.

 

[Riberra]

What I mean or meant to claim is that the KJV translates it as "testament" in places where it should be "covenant", just as Bullinger says it should be.

When most English speakers hear the word "testament" they think of a "Last Will and Testament" or a "statement of truth", like that given in a court of law.

Why is it important?

Because of the battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant that has been going on since Acts chapter 15.

During most of the history of the Church the Judaisers have won...

Are you saying that we should not read Hebrews 8:13 literally for what it say ?
Heb_8:13 In that He says, A NEW COVENANT , He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The Jews in the time of Jesus have refused the New Covenant [Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant Heb_12:24],with the consequence [for them] that we know ....

---------
Heb_8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

 

[BABerean2]

Are you saying that we should not read Hebrews 8:13 literally for what it say ?

No. I am saying the opposite.

The Greek word is translated properly as "covenant" in that verse.

The New Covenant was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and is found fulfilled in many places in the New Testament.

The Book of Hebrews is about Hebrew believers who kept going back to the Old Covenant, instead of embracing the New Covenant.

 

[Riberra]

No. I am saying the opposite.

The Greek word is translated properly as "covenant" in that verse.

The New Covenant was promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and is found fulfilled in many places in the New Testament.

The Book of Hebrews is about Hebrew believers who kept going back to the Old Covenant, instead of embracing the New Covenant.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Biblicist]

The KJV is best IMO because there are so many tools that work with it to help one get back to the original languages like the Strong's and Thayer's concordances and dictionaries.

This is the great weakness of the KJV in that few if any contemporary Biblical technical aids (commentaries, lexicons & dictionaries) have been written for the KJV as it is simply far too old and its Greek text base is simply throught with errors. It would be difficult in this day and age to find a serious publisher who would be prepared to print a technical book for the KJV, where it would probably be even harder to find a top-level New Testament scholar who would even want to compile a technical book for the KJV.

As for Thayer's Greek Lexicon, that particular work became redundant within a year of its publication as it predated the discovery of the many parchments and other portions of Greek documents that were being discovered - which is a sad thing considering that Thayer worked tirelessly on his lexicon.

 

[BABerean2]

the KJV as it is simply far too old and its Greek text base is simply throught with errors.

The Greek texts known as the Textus Receptus are far superior and from an older source than the Alexandrian text which was discovered at St. Catherine's Monastery during the 1800s.

The Textus Receptus was quoted by Early Church Father, Cyprian, about 250 AD.

Therefore, it is an older source than that used by Westcott and Hort.

The KJV and the NKJV may not be perfect. However, they come from a superior source.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The Greek texts known as the Textus Receptus are far superior and from an older source than the Alexandrian text which was discovered at St. Catherine's Monastery during the 1800s.

The Textus Receptus was quoted by Early Church Father, Cyprian, about 250 AD.

Therefore, it is an older source than that used by Westcott and Hort.

The KJV and the NKJV may not be perfect. However, they come from a superior source.

The textus receptus ultimately goes back to the text of Erasmus, based on a handful of manuscripts that were produced late in the Medieval period. Erasmus based his edition on late manuscripts he found in Basel and one he borrowed from a friend Reuchlin. These manuscripts were produced 1100 years after the originals.

Erasmus' manuscripts did NOT contain 1 John 5:7-8, the Johannine Comma, a Trinitarian passage. Later, after Greek manuscript evidence was provided, he put the passage back in.

There are older and better Greek manuscripts than what Erasmus settled on.

 

[BABerean2]

There are older and better Greek manuscripts than what Erasmus settled on.

And what would these be?
What is their source?

.

 

[Steve Petersen]

And what would these be?
What is their source?

.

The Alexandrian texts are the ones most relied on by a majority of modern scholarship.

 

[ewq1938]

This is the great weakness of the KJV

Actually that's a strength not a weakness. These things allow anyone to be able to access the Greek and Hebrew from it's English translation. Which other translations can say the same?

 

[BABerean2]

The Alexandrian texts are the ones most relied on by a majority of modern scholarship.

This is the source first found in the trash at St. Catherine's Monastery, which was built on the spot identified by Constantine's mother as the site of Mount Sinai.

The only problem is that in Galatians 4:25 Paul says that Sinai is in Arabia.

Gal 4:25　 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.　

Midian is located in western Arabia.
Moses found the burning bush in Midian.
His father-in-law was a priest of Midian.

We have a substitute text from a substitute site of Mount Sinai.

Maybe we should take a hint.

If Cyprian quoted from the Textus Receptus in 250 AD, it has to be a more ancient source.

What came from the trash, should have stayed in the trash.

.

 

[Steve Petersen]

This is the source first found in the trash at St. Catherine's Monastery, which was built on the spot identified by Constantine's mother as the site of Mount Sinai.

The only problem is that in Galatians 4:25 Paul says that Sinai is in Arabia.

Gal 4:25　 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.　

Midian is located in western Arabia.
Moses found the burning bush in Midian.
His father-in-law was a priest of Midian.

We have a substitute text from a substitute site of Mount Sinai.

Maybe we should take a hint.

If Cyprian quoted from the Textus Receptus in 250 AD, it has to be a more ancient source.

What came from the trash, should have stayed in the trash.

.

That's irrational reason for rejecting the texts.

 

[BABerean2]

That's irrational reason for rejecting the texts.

I think the fact that Cyprian quoted from the Textus Receptus is a very rational reason...

.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I think the fact that Cyprian quoted from the Textus Receptus is a very rational reason...

.

Did he quote the ENTIRE Textus Receptus? No?

 

[BABerean2]

 

[faroukfarouk]

I think one should study the differences between formal-equivalence and dynamic-equivalence translations before they render a verdict on what is most accurate concerning the original texts. They should also study the differences between the Textus Receptus and Alexandrian Codices.

Yes, these are both very good points.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I like the NKJV..it is closest to the KJV, which is probably the most accurate version, and doesn't require you to learn middle english. I love the KJV but I have a hard time studying it deeply

My church uses NKJV so of course I have one.

I would guess KJV