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Which Bible manuscript did the church fathers use? KJV or NIV or ESV?

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by gradyll, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    I realize the Bible translations were not made in the first and second century. But we can trace modern translations to alexandrian text, and a few translations to byzantine text. NIV, ESV, NASB, and NIV are all from westcott hort (alexandrian), while KJV, NKJV, and some other majority text translations are from a majority text (byzantine).

    compare your version of John 1:18 with the founding fathers: the words "only begotten God, are only in the KJV, not in any modern translation, yet that is what the church fathers unanimously use as far as terminology in quoting john 1:18.

    compare

    The verses that state “only begotten son” versus “only begotten God” are from the byzantine tradition, not the Alexandrian: (byzantine tradition is KJV)

    Hippolytus of Rome -“No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.”[1]

    Again - “No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.” (Joh 1:18)[2]

    Irenaus- “No man hath seen God at any time, except the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father; He has declared [Him.]”[3]

    And again in -“For “no man,” he says, “hath seen God at any time,” unless “the only-begotten Son of God, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared [Him].”[4]

    And again in- “And there is also one Son, God the Word. For “the only-begotten Son,” saith [the Scripture], “who is in the bosom of the Father.”[5]


    Turtullian- It is of course the Father, with whom was the Word, the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, and has Himself declared Him . (Joh 1:18)[6]

    Archelaus- “No man hath seen God at any time, save the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father.” (Joh 1:18)[7]


    Alexander of Alexandria-“ the evangelist John sufficiently shows, when he thus writes concerning Him: “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father.”

    Origen-“No one hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him”[8]

    Again it states-"No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.”[9]

    Hippolytus-"No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him."[10]

    ST. AURELIUS AUGUSTIN -"who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."[11]

    "No man has seen God at any time, except the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him:"[12]

    "no man hath ever seen, but the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him."[13]

    "No one hath seen God at any time; but the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him."[14]

    "He who is in the bosom of the Father, hath declared Him."[15]

    John Chrysostom-John i. 18.-"No man hath seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him."[16]

    THEODORET -"The only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father He hath declared Him,"[17]



    [1] Hippolytus of Rome. (1886). Against the Heresy of One Noetus S. D. F. Salmond, Trans.). In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), . Vol. 5: Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Novatian, Appendix (A. Roberts, J. Donaldson & A. C. Coxe, Ed.). The Ante-Nicene Fathers (225). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.



    [2] 5.01.27 Hippolytus - Fragments - Part 2.3 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 5.topx)



    [3] 1.08.20 Iranaeus - Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 17-20 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1.topx)



    [4] 1.08.14 Iranaeus - Against Heresies - Book 3 Ch 10-11 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1.topx)



    [5] 1.04.11 Ignatius - Spurious Epistles - Part 2 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1.topx)



    [6] 3.01.61 Tertullian - Against Praxeas - Ch 12-21 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 3.topx)



    [7] 6.05.04 Archelaus - Acts of Disputation 27-35 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 6.topx)



    [8] 9.13.08 Origen - Gospel of John - Book 2 Part 3 (Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 9.topx)



    [9] 14.03.25 Against Celsus Book II Part 4 (Nicene Fathers Vol 04.topx)



    [10] 15.10.03 Dogmatical & Historical Pt. 3 (Nicene Fathers Vol 05.topx)



    [11] 17.01.02 Tractate III-IV (Nicene Fathers Vol 07.topx)



    [12] 17.01.20 Tractate XXX-XXXII (Nicene Fathers Vol 07.topx)



    [13] 17.01.21 Tractate XXXIII-XXXV (Nicene Fathers Vol 07.topx)



    [14] 17.01.27 Tractate XLVI-XLVII (Nicene Fathers Vol 07.topx)



    [15] 18.01.58 Psalms CVII-CX (Nicene Fathers Vol 08.topx)



    [16] 114.01.06 Homily XIV-XVI (Nicene Fathers Vol 14.topx)



    [17] 23.01.23 The Immutable Part 1 (Post-Nicene Fathers Vol 03.topx)
     
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  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Ahh. Textual criticism. The most common discrepancies found are scribal errors. Biblical manuscripts copied again and again by hand over centuries causing errors to be transmitted over time.

    But in comparing Church Fathers to manuscripts you find similar errors in scribal copies of their writings as well, so one does not necessarily verify the other. Either could be just as right or just as wrong.
     
  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    None of those you asked about 'translations' were available in the first centuries.

    The Messiah Yahushua (Jesus) and all the Apostles and all the disciples were very familiar with the Tanakh, which all the Jews used daily, and the ones without a copy went to Temple or to synagogue every Sabbath on the 7th day to hear. (even gentiles, if they were considered 'righteous')
     
  4. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Neither. KJV, NIV, ESV are English translations of different compilations of many manuscripts.

    You can be 100% certain no church father used any of these Bibles.
     
  5. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    I am 100% certain they quoted an early version of a manuscript we no longer have, (non extant). This same manuscript was later copied and copied, and ended up being the exact same wording as the text in the KJV. Coincidence? I don't think so. But I don't really have time to post here any longer. I just wanted to post some food for thought. (unsubscribing)
     
  6. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    oh yeah, and this may be over everyone's head but there is a book by harry sturz that shows the byzantine text type was the one that was found in papyrus of various copies. the P number is the number of the fragment that is specifically byzantinian in reading. Sturz is a non partisan textual critic that does not endorse the byzantine text, but realized that many papyrus did in fact endorse it.


    The Byzantine text-type and New Testament textual criticism

    by Harry A. Sturz


    Here are examples from Sturz' List 1, (abbrev.)

    Distinctively Byzantine - Papyrus Alignments (Byz Text-type p. 145 fwd):

    Matt.

    26:22 εκαστος αυτων (P37)P45 AWΓΔ(Θ)ΠΣΦ unc8 λ φ 28 565 700 1241 1582 pl sy-p Eus K ς (We'll just list the Byz. reading)

    Mark

    5:42 εξεστησαν P45 AWΘΠΣ unc9 λ φ 565 700 pl it vg sy sa geo K ς
    6:2 εν τη συναγωγη διδασκειν AΝWΠΣΦ unc9 pl λ φ 28 565 700 1071 g1 g2 i q vg go K ς
    6:45 απολυση P45 A E2 FHMSUVWΠ 33 pm K ς
    6:48 ειδεν P45 EFGHSUΓΠ2 λ φ 565 700 pm sy arm eth K ς
    6:50 ειδον (or ιδον itac.) (P45) AKLMVXΓΔΠ pl K ς
    7:12 και ουκετι αφιετε P45 AWXΓΠ unc9 579 pl f g2 vg go sy arm K ς
    7:30 το δαιμ. εξελ. και την θυγ. βεβλ. AΝWXΠ unc9 φ pl a n sy-p go arm K ς
    7:30 επι της κλινης P45 W λ φ 33 565 pl K ς
    7:31 και σιδωνος ηλθε P45 AΝWXΓΠ unc9 λ φ pl q sy-s sy-p go arm (sa) K ς
    7:32 μογιλαλον P45 ALΝXΓΠ unc9 λ φ pl co sy-s sy-p go (arm) K ς
    7:35 ευθεως P45 AEFGHKMNSUVWXΘΠ 0132 λ φ 565 700 pl c f 1 vg sy-s sy-p (sa) go eth arm K ς
    7:35 διηνοιχθησαν P45 ANXΓΠ 0132 unc9 φ 579 pm K ς
    7:36 αυτος αυτοις P45 EFGHKMNSUV ΓΠ φ pl sy go eth arm K ς
    9:6 ησαν γαρ εκφοβοι P45 AKNUWXΓΠΦ unc9 λ φ 700 pl f l g1 vg sy-p co go K ς
    9:20 ευθεως το πνευμα P45 AINWXΓΘΠΦ unc9 λ φ 700 pl ς
    9:20 εσπαραξεν P45 AINWXΓΘΠ unc9 λ φ 565 700 pl K ς
    12:6 αγαπητον αυτου P45 ANWXΓΠΦ unc9 λ φ 28 pl K ς
    12:16 ειπον P45 NXΓΘΠ unc9 λ φ pl K ς

    Distinctively Byzantine - Papyrus Alignments (Byz Text-type p. 145 fwd):

    Luke:

    6:28 καταρωμενους υμιν P75 EHLSUVΔΘΛ pm Just (Or) Κ ς
    6:39 δε P45 [P75] APΓΔΛΠ unc7 pl co go sy-p Κ ς
    9:30 μωσης P45 AEGHMPSUVΓΛ λ pm (Κ) ς
    10:21 τω πνευματι P45 AEGHMSUVWΓΔΛ φ pl f g bo-pt Cl Bas Cyr Κ ς
    10:39 του ιησου P45 P75(-του) AB3C2PWΓΔΘΛΠ unc9 λ φ pl b sy-ptxt Bas Κ ς
    11:12 η και εαν P45 AWXΓΔΘΛΠ unc9 pl Κ ς (ΑΘΛ pc αν)
    11:12 αιτηση P45 EFGMSUVWXΠ φ pm Κ ς
    11:33 το φεγγος P45 ALWΓΔΛΠ unc8 28 33 pm Κ ς
    11:50 εκχυνομενον P75 HKMSVXΓΘΛ λ pl Κ ς
    12:5 εξουσιαν εχοντα P45 EGHMSUVΓΔΛ pm eth Tert Κ ς
    12:21 εαυτω P75 AQXΓΔΘΛΠ λ unc9 pl Κ ς
    12:22 ψυχη υμων P45 XΓΔΛΠ unc8 φ pl a e g2 vg-ed sy-c sa bo eth Cl Ath Κ ς
    12:23 η ψυχη P45 AEGHKQUVWΓΔΛΠ pl a f ff2 i q g-l vg sy-ptxt Κ ς
    12:30 επιζητει P45 AQWΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 λ pl Bas Ath Κ ς
    12:31 την βασιλειαν του θεου P45 AD2QWXΓΔΘΛΠ 070 unc8 λ φ pl d it-pl vg sy-c Cl Mcion Κ ς
    13:2 οτι τοιαυτα P75 AWXΓΔΘΛΠ 070 unc8 λ (φ) pm it vg Chr Κ ς
    13:19 δενδρον μεγα P45 AWXΓΔΘΛΠ unc9 λ φ pl c f q sy-p eth Κ ς
    13:28 οψησθε P75 AB2LRWΓΔΛΠ 070 unc8 pl it vg Ir Κ ς [WH]
    14:3 ει εξεστιν P45 AWXΔΛΠ unc8 λ φ pl it-pl vg (sa) sy-c Κ ς
    14:23 ο οικος μου P45 PWΓΔΛ unc8 λ φ pl lat Bas Κ ς
    14:34 εαν δε P75 ARWΓΔΛΠ unc8 pl e ff2 i vg-ed co sy-p eth arm Κ ς
    15:21 υοις σου P75 ALPQRWΓΔΘΛΠ unc7 λ φ pl it (vg) go co sy-h arm Aug Κ ς
    15:22 την στολην P75 D2EGHK2MRSUVXΓΔΛ pl Ps Chr Dam Κ ς
    23:53 εθηκεν αυτο P75 ALPWXΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 pl c Κ ς
    24:47 αρξαμενον P75 AC3FHKMUVWΓΔ* ΛΠ λ φ pm (a c e l) (sy-sp) arm Κ ς

    Continuing List 1 with Readings from John's Gospel:

    1:39 ηλθαν * και P5 P ΓΔΠ unc9 700 pm c f q vg arm Κ ς

    2:15 ανεστρεψεν P75 ALPΓΔΛΠ* unc9 pl (Or) Κ ς
    2:24 εαυτον αυτοις P66 אc A2 PWΓΔΘΛΠ unc9 pm it-pc vg Or-pt Κ ς
    4:14 διψηση P66 C3W ΛΠ unc8 pm Κ ς
    4:31 εν δε τω P75 AC3ΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 pl b f ff2 m q co cy-cp (Or) Chr Cyr Κ ς
    5:37 αυτος P66 AΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 pl lat sy Eus Κ ς
    6:10 ωσει (P28)P66() AΓΔΘΛΠ unc9 λ φ pl Κ ς
    6:57 ζησεται P66 EGHMSUVWΓΔ(Θ)ΛΠ(Ω) (unc7) λ pm lect.1561 Κ ς
    7:3 θευρησωσι P66 B3XΓΔΛΠ unc8 λ pm Κ ς
    7:39 πνευμα αγιον P66 LNWXΓΔΛ unc6 λ φ 33 1241 pl (sa) (0r) Ath Did Chr Cyr... Κ ς
    7:40 Πολλοι P66 ΓΔΛΠ unc7 118 pl f q go sy Κ ς
    8:21 αυτοις ο Ιησους p66c ΓΔΘΛΨ unc8 λ φ 33 pm lat co Chr Κ ς
    8:51 το λογον τον εμον P66 ΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 λ φ pm latt sy Κ ς
    8:54 δοξαζω P66 אc C2LXΓΔΛΠ unc8 pl Κ ς
    9:16 αλλοι P66 P75 ALXΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 28 pm it-pl (vg) go arm sy-p Chr Κ ς
    9:19 αρτι βλεπει P66 AXΓΔΛΠΨ unc7 λ φ 565 579 1241 pm co lat Κ ς
    9:26 αυτω παλιν p66 AXΓΔΘΛ unc8 λ φ pl f q go (sy) arm eth Cyr Κ ς
    9:28 ελοιδορησαν P66 AX ΓΔΛ unc8 φ (-69) 28 al b e l q (vg) arm Aug Κ
    9:35 ειπεν αυτω P66 אcAL(X auton) ΓΔΘΛ unc7 pl sy-s lat Κ ς
    10:19 σχισμα ουν παλιν P66 AΓΔΘΛΠΨ unc7 λ φ pl (bo) sy-p Chr Cyr Κ ς
    10:29 ος P66 P75 AB2MUX ΓΔΘΠ (Λ ous) unc8 λ φ 33 565 pl sa sy-sph eth Κ ς
    10:29b μειζων παντων εστι p66 AΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 λ φ 33 565 pl lat go sa sy-sph Bas Dial Chr Κ ς
    10:31 εβαστασαν ουν παλιν P66 AXΠ unc-rell λ 565 pl (sy) Κ ς
    10:32 πατρος μου P66(P75)אc ALWX unc-rell λ φ pl lat Κ ς
    10:38 πιστευσατε P45 P66 AEGHMSXΓ Λ λ φ 118 209 pl Ath Bas Chr Κ ς
    10:38b αυτω P45 AΓΔΘΛΠ unc7 λ φ pl b f ff2 l go sy-p Cyp Κ ς
    11:19 προς τας περι (P45) AC3ΓΔΘΛΠΨΩ unc7 λ φ 565 pm Κ ς
    11:21 μαρθα P45 AΓΔΛ unc7 pl Κ ς
    11:21b ο αδελφος μου ουκ αν P45 P66 C3ΓΔΘΛΠΩ unc8 φ pl Κ ς
    11:29 εγειρεται P45 P66 AC2ΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 λ φ pm l vg Κ ς
    11:31 λεγοντες P66 AC2ΓΔΘΛΠΨ unc8 pm it vg sa sy-ph Κ ς
    11:32 εις P66 AC3ΓΔΘΛΠ unc8 φ pl Κ ς
    11:32b απεθανεν μου ο αδελφος P45 AC3XΓΛΠ unc8 λ (φ) pl Κ ς
    12:6 ειχεν και P66 AIXΓΔΛΠΨ unc8 pl a b c f go arm Κ ς
    12:9 οχλος πολυς P66 P75 AB3IQXΘΨ λ φ 33 pl f g vg bo go sy-ph Κ ς
    12:36 εως P66 XΓΔΛΠ3 unc8 λ φ 1241 pm Κ ς
    12:36b ο Ιησους P75 אcAXΓΔΛΠ unc8 rell Libere Chr Κ ς
    13:26 και εμβαψας P66 AWΓΘΛΠΨ unc8 λ Κ ς
    13:26b ισκαριωτη P66 AWΓΔΛΠ* unc7 λ φ pm vg-c go co arm Or Κ ς
    14:5 δυναμεθα την οδον ειδεναι P66 AC2LNQWXΓΔΘΛΠ unc6 λ φ pl it-pc vg Κ ς
    19:4 εξηλθεν ουν P66c EGHMSUWYΔΘΛ φ pm Κ ς
    19:11 απεκριθη αυτου P66c AXYΔΛΠ unc6 φ pm it-pc vg go co arm sy-p Κ ς
    19:35 εστιν αυτου η μαρτ. P66EGKSUΛ 579 pm am ing Caes Κ
    20:17 πατερα μου P66 ALOXΓΔΘΛΠ unc6 λ φ pl lat sy-ps sa bo Κ ς

    Here is the continuation of List 1: Distinctively Byz./Papyrus Alignments for Acts (i.e., Byz readings with Pap. support cont.)

    Acts

    4:33 μεγαλη δυναμει p45
    7:14 τον πατερα αυτου Ιακωβ p45
    9:3 περιησταραψεν αυτον φως p45
    9:3 απο του ουανου p45
    9:38 οκνησαι...αυτων p45
    10:37 αρξαμενον p45
    11:11 ημην p45
    13:26 απεσταλη p45
    14:15 τον θεον τον ζωντα p45
    16:16 πυθωνος p45
    16:39 εξελθειν p45
    17:13 σαλευοντες p45
    23:12 τινες των Ιουδαιων p48


    ----------- Here are the remaining Variation Units from List 1: ---

    Romans

    10:14 επικαλεστονται p46
    16:23 και της εκκλησιας ολης p46

    1st Cor.

    4:11 γυμνητευομεν και p46
    5:10 η αρπαξιν p46
    7:5 συνερχεσθε p46
    7:7 χαρισμα εχει p46
    7:7b ος μεν ...ος δε p46
    9:7 εκ του καρπου p46
    9:21 κερδησω ανομους p46
    10:8 επεσον p46
    11:26 το ποτηριον τουτο p46

    2nd Cor.

    9:10 αυξησαι p46

    Galatians

    4:31 αρα p46

    Ephesians

    2:12 εν τω καιρω p46
    5:9 πνευματος p46

    Philipians

    1:14 τον λογον λαλειν p46


    Colossians

    3:16 τω κυριω p46
    3:22 τον θεον p46
    4:12 πεπληρωμενοι p46

    Hebrews

    3:3 δοξης ουτος p13
    10:17 μνησθω p46
    10:38 εκ πιστεως p13
    11:4 αυτου του θεου p13
    11:32 γαρ με p13
    12:25 τον επι της γης παραιτησαμενοι p46
    12:25b πολλω p46

    1st Peter

    2:5 τω θεω p72
    3:7 εκκοπτεσθαι p72
    5:8 οτι ο αντιδικος p72

    2nd Peter

    2:4 σειραις p72
    2:5 αλλ' ογδοον p72

    Jude

    25 και μεγαλωσυνη p72
    25b εξουοια p72

    Revelation

    9:20 δυναται p47
    10:2 βιβλιον p47
    10:8 ανεωγμενον p47
    11:2 εκβ. εξω p47
    11:6 παση πληγη p47
    11:12 ηκουσα p47
    11:19 διαθηκης του κυριου p47
    12:7 αυτου p47
    12:9 σατανας p47
    12:13 αρρενα p47
    13:13 επι την γην p47
    14:8 εκ του p47
    15:8 εκ του p47
    16:3 εν τη θαλασση - p47
    16:10 εμασσωντο - p47

    from

    http://nttextualcriticism.blogspot.c...ings-acts.html

    this book has 5 stars on amazon and is required in many courses on textual criticism:

    https://www.amazon.com/Byzantine-text-type-Testament-textual-criticism/dp/0840749589#customerReviews
     
  7. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you have one word that is same in the KJV and in some church fathers certainly does not mean that the KJV is the same thing in everything else.
     
  8. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    Try calculating the math. 171,000 english words in the dictionary. So adding one word to a phrase, is what.....1 in 170,000 chance of happening. So there is less than one chance in 170,000 of guessing the right word.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  9. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    This is not how it works. Its not about guessing.

    Its about selecting.
     
  10. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    Why is it selecting? It actually exists in whole form as it is in the receptus.
     
  11. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    but the main argument I present is that hundreds of verses in the new testament are actually byzantine in origin as deemed so by a textual critic not in favor of the byzantine. We would expect them to be originated from an alexandrian text, if alexandrian was in effect the predominant manuscript that christians used. But it's not. It is the same manuscript as the NKJV. (I am not a KJV onlyist. I use the NKJV, which is heresy to the KJV only)

    OneTab shared tabs
     
  12. Mary Meg

    Mary Meg Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think it's pretty clear that the Alexandrian text-type is the oldest and closest to the original text. But depending on where and when they were, different Church Fathers used different manuscripts. The Byzantine text-type was obviously much more common in the East, the Alexandrian in Alexandria, etc. I haven't studied individual Fathers' use of Scripture much to be able to answer this question better.
     
  13. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Manuscript is just one source of information.

    We have about 6,000 manuscripts. The way you use the word in a single form quite confuses me. Not sure what you mean.
     
  14. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    That was when I referred to the singular manuscript behind the NKJV. Textus receptus is one manuscript for example
     
  15. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Texus receptus is not one manuscript, its a critical compilation made by the RCC priest Erasmus, created from multiple selected manuscripts...
     
  16. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    Oh sorry, haven't debated this topic I'm several years. But it does not really matter, does it?
     
  17. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    I do not know, depends on what you want to say :) The church fathers did not use the Textus Receptus, because it did not exist in their time.
     
  18. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    I know. However the manuscripts that made up the textus receptus were manuscripts that were copied and copied, word for word, all the way down to the first century. So the fact that the church fathers quoted a particular version of a verse, adds to the authenticity of a particular manuscript family (in this case the receptus, received text, majority text= byzantine; or if it was not the byzantine, it would be the westcott hort, vaticanus =from the alexandrian family. )
     
  19. gradyll

    gradyll logical debater- for better or for worse

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    do you have quotations of the church fathers that are from the alexandrian? I don't know of any. Not that they don't exist, however.
     
  20. Mary Meg

    Mary Meg Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Like I said, I haven't researched it. But I would think the earliest Fathers (maybe Clement of Rome, Hermas, Ignatius, Irenaeus, etc.) would be most likely to have it or something close to it. I'll look into it when I get a chance.
     
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